Furlough Latest

[Fromage Frais]

 

This looks quite recent and (to me a least) is pretty shocking that 7% of the workforce is still furloughed.

I have gone from 15 > 34 staff over the last month gearing up for the summer and its been good as soon as the weather changed.

All businesses like mine (Hospitality) are hiring and wages for some positions are rising due to Shortages.

Maybe it shows how many positions are still unviable whilst any rules are in place or maybe its a ominous sign for when September comes.

I am seeing a few folk in smaller places close partially or give up due to the difficulty in getting staff and then later I expect others to fold once they pay too much to just fill a position and then lay them off after the summer season.

Visited the city centre (Norwich) first time in a while Ikea (going), Debenhams (gone), Arcadia stores (gone) and M & S and HOF looking sad for themselves even Jarrold was closed just after 4pm so we could not go in and buy anything there.

A couple more losses and you cannot really then call Norwich a top 10-20 national shopping location I dont see how any independents are going to replace some of the huge units..... and if they do there is not way the rents/taxes are going to be as high.

Bit depressing I have not had any applicants from what much be thousands of lots jobs in those places so I wonder where they have gone.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Fromage Frais

[TheCountOfNowhere]

No need to continue it then

[GregBowman]

2 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

No need to continue it then

Exactly my thoughts. 

[Who am I?]

At this point if you are still on furlough you are really on the dole at a special introductory rate.

[Roman Roady]

54 minutes ago, Who am I? said:

At this point if you are still on furlough you are really on the dole at a special introductory rate.

Yup and I suspect most of them know it...cue more bleating about mental health issues and the need for government support there in.

[reddog]

I definitely think no need to continue.

 

My thought is there is no job for these people to go back to, but the employer is just "being nice" to the employee, giving them an extended notice/redundancy at the expense of the tax payer.

 

The real nice thing to do would be to let them go, while job market is bouyant.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

2 hours ago, Who am I? said:

At this point if you are still on furlough you are really on the dole at a special introductory rate.

[Dorkins]

Basically the UK unemployment rate is at least 10% and close to the highs it got to in the early 1980s of 12-13%.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dorkins

[byron78]

5 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Basically the UK unemployment rate is at least 10% and close to the highs it got to in the early 1980s of 12-13%.

I'd say so. Underemployment rampant as well.

 

[Dorkins]

9 minutes ago, byron78 said:

I'd say so. Underemployment rampant as well.

 

Yes, 1 hour a week of paid work is the ONS definition of employed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46264291

Also there are a lot more working age people on disability-related benefits like DLA and PIP now than was the case in the 1970s much of which is really unemployment. No job -> poor lifestyle -> get lifestyle-related mental and physical illnesses -> can't work anymore -> qualify for DLA/PIP. Also known as s*** life syndrome.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dorkins

[byron78]

6 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

Yes, 1 hour a week of paid work is the ONS definition of employed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46264291

Also there are a lot more working age people on disability-related benefits like DLA and PIP now than was the case in the 1970s much of which is really unemployment. No job -> poor lifestyle -> get lifestyle-related mental and physical illnesses -> can't work anymore -> qualify for DLA/PIP. Also known as s*** life syndrome.

I read about how much people get on benefits on here a lot.

I presume only with kids? PIP and DLA are a pittance (effectively still at the 1969 rate when adjusted for inflation) as far as I can see. 

If anyone thinks that's a nice way to live then good luck to them!

 

[btd1981]

Can you even *begin* to imagine the backlash from the blue benches - and probably a significant chunk of the population - if a Corbyn led government had been elected and then spent more than a year paying millions of people 80% wages to do nothing???? 

It was a nice idea at first, but as one of the many non-key workers dragged into work through all of this to do 'essential' activities (for my employer), I want my free lunch now.

[Dorkins]

18 minutes ago, byron78 said:

I read about how much people get on benefits on here a lot.

I presume only with kids? PIP and DLA are a pittance (effectively still at the 1969 rate when adjusted for inflation) as far as I can see. 

If anyone thinks that's a nice way to live then good luck to them!

I wouldn't say a life on PIP/DLA is particularly pleasant, for those who end up there after spiralling down via unemployment and lifestyle-related illnesses like depression/obesity/mobility problems etc it just keeps them alive rather than giving them enough resources to get themselves back into a normal life (including employment).

My point was not to complain about the PIP/DLA benefits bill or accuse people of being lazy scroungers, just saying that there is hidden unemployment there.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dorkins

[Jason]

Many employers require extra staff to cover holiday and sickness cover, and many of those has been using furlough to cut down the costs of those extra staff.    

[byron78]

31 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

I wouldn't say a life on PIP/DLA is particularly pleasant, for those who end up there after spiralling down via unemployment and lifestyle-related illnesses like depression/obesity/mobility problems etc it just keeps them alive rather than giving them enough resources to get themselves back into a normal life (including employment).

My point was not to complain about the PIP/DLA benefits bill or accuse people of being lazy scroungers, just saying that there is hidden unemployment there.

Yes, I think I've been dulled by the internet - it's very rare you find compassion on it these days.

I agree with you, and you remind me of days gone actually. 

My Dad went to war a Tory and still came back a Tory, but one who was no longer scared or snobbish about proles (he still called them that mind). They were Brits and he was astonished at how shite most of them had it. I think part of the reason I've softened in my old age is because I think my dad would look around now and be incredibly annoyed by it all 

Edited June 10, 2021 by byron78

[coypondboy]

49 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

I wouldn't say a life on PIP/DLA is particularly pleasant, for those who end up there after spiralling down via unemployment and lifestyle-related illnesses like depression/obesity/mobility problems etc it just keeps them alive rather than giving them enough resources to get themselves back into a normal life (including employment).

My point was not to complain about the PIP/DLA benefits bill or accuse people of being lazy scroungers, just saying that there is hidden unemployment there.

Did not get any help with this as wife works full time and no children with assets over 6k universal credit is really going to reak havoc for those who rely on 2 incomes to pay the mortgage if one of you is made redundant or long term ill.  

[coypondboy]

1 hour ago, byron78 said:

I read about how much people get on benefits on here a lot.

I presume only with kids? PIP and DLA are a pittance (effectively still at the 1969 rate when adjusted for inflation) as far as I can see. 

If anyone thinks that's a nice way to live then good luck to them!

 

you have to pass a medical assessment to get esa (the old dla) so if you can walk forget it they put you on jsa for 6 months then you are buggered if you have any savings or mortgage this did not happen last time in the early 90's recession where you simply went on to long term disbility once the jsa ran out and they payed your mortgage.  If the coming recession is as bad as that one there will be millions of poorer people in trouble.

[Trump Invective]

1 hour ago, btd1981 said:

Can you even *begin* to imagine the backlash from the blue benches - and probably a significant chunk of the population - if a Corbyn led government had been elected and then spent more than a year paying millions of people 80% wages to do nothing???? 

It was a nice idea at first, but as one of the many non-key workers dragged into work through all of this to do 'essential' activities (for my employer), I want my free lunch now.

Yes - if it's ideological, planned and intentional then that's terrible!!!!

If you're making it up as you go along and you are papering over reality, that's fine!!!

[tep1]

2 hours ago, Dorkins said:

I wouldn't say a life on PIP/DLA is particularly pleasant, for those who end up there after spiralling down via unemployment and lifestyle-related illnesses like depression/obesity/mobility problems etc it just keeps them alive rather than giving them enough resources to get themselves back into a normal life (including employment).

My point was not to complain about the PIP/DLA benefits bill or accuse people of being lazy scroungers, just saying that there is hidden unemployment there.

Yes agree with the sentiment but why have a 2 tier system those furloighed and those on Universal credit i.e. self employed?  Personally I have no intention of claiming either since I have saved vastly for a rainy day. It meant i had to go without on many luxury items like buying a house which now requires a hefty deposit. My thought has always been what if i am without work suddenly. Why don't others therefore seek responsibly to do the same?

[Flopsy]

2 hours ago, Dorkins said:

I wouldn't say a life on PIP/DLA is particularly pleasant, for those who end up there after spiralling down via unemployment and lifestyle-related illnesses like depression/obesity/mobility problems etc it just keeps them alive rather than giving them enough resources to get themselves back into a normal life (including employment).

My point was not to complain about the PIP/DLA benefits bill or accuse people of being lazy scroungers, just saying that there is hidden unemployment there.

In my group of people with Neurological diseases there are some being able to actually get back to work now due to the change to home working. This includes people with good skills but rusty who have been applying for work for years with no luck. The main problem is that they cannot physically get to an office 5 days a week. Now some of them are getting jobs in their old professions or in something new working at home.

(also better healthcare to the homebound in some cases)

Can't talk for people who have become unemployed due for other reasons. The bar is high (in my experience) for PIP/ old DLA and can involved years of fighting and multiple tribunals. It's a horrible, soul destroying process in itself which is why I didn't apply for decades (although I was eligible).



 

[Former postman]

I am a massive lefty but all this is starting to make me blush. When I imagined a proper 'social safety net', I did not envisage paying people 80% wages to sit in their garden and have  BBQs for over a year.

I was thinking more along the lines of a £20 increase per week in UC, increased investment in careers training, a proper minimum wage, an end to zero hours contracts/exploitative practices and a restoration of dignity and respect to so-called menial/unskilled jobs.

I have worked through both lockdowns, and frankly I've had enough of paying for people who probably don't have a real job any more. No more extensions please. Get them onto UC.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Postman

[Former postman]

1 minute ago, Postman said:

 

Delete

Edited June 10, 2021 by Postman

[tep1]

59 minutes ago, Postman said:

I am a massive lefty but all this is starting to make me blush. When I imagined a proper 'social safety net', I did not envisage paying people 80% wages to sit in their garden and have  BBQs for over a year.

I was thinking more along the lines of a £20 increase per week in UC, increased investment in careers training, a proper minimum wage, an end to zero hours contracts/exploitative practices and a restoration of dignity and respect to so-called menial/unskilled jobs.

I have worked through both lockdowns, and frankly I've had enough of paying for people who probably don't have a real job any more. No more extensions please. Get them onto UC.

+1

[tep1]

It would be political suicide for tories to cancel furlough and move employees onto UC. There would be a surge toward the left when people realise ow little and how to get UC is.

[RentingForever]

Just now, tep1 said:

It would be political suicide for tories to cancel furlough and move employees onto UC. There would be a surge toward the left when people realise ow little and how to get UC is.

But it will be economic suicide to keep paying 80% of this many people's salaries indefinitely. They'll have to grasp the nettle at some point.