PETER HITCHENS: What is the point of tourists' checks and tests if migrants can just walk into Dover?

[Warlord]

Compare and contrast. A British family, who have saved all year for a holiday after long months of house arrest and general dreariness, have to interrupt their break in Portugal to go home, on the stern orders of the Government in London.

Before them lie hours of bureaucracy, unpleasant and ruinously expensive nasal swabs, long forms to fill in, shuffling queues, more nasal swabs, more queues, and then days of being snooped on at home.

You'll know that I think this is ridiculous and useless. But even if you disagree with me, you must see that it is profoundly unfair, and a pretence of security.

It reminds me of the water companies which sternly tell us not to waste water in our homes while leaving a thousand ruptured mains gushing millions of gallons of the precious fluid back into the earth.

For here come the illegal migrants, in ever-growing numbers, who have chucked away their passports and paid a gangster to get them across the Channel.

Into the boats they climb, until they are 'rescued' from their self-imposed plight by an expensive cutter paid for by your taxes and mine, and ferried to a British port where, after a few weeks of processing, they are almost invariably allowed to remain and can vanish. In most cases, we will have very little idea of who they really are.

Someone will say at this point 'What about the plight of the poor refugee?' or alternatively that it is selfish of us British even to take holidays on sunny beaches while millions endure poverty in the Third World.

Well, a refugee would be just as able to escape his persecutors, if he really has any, in France as in Britain, so that one doesn't work.

As for the holidays and poverty argument, most British holidaymakers have paid a fortune in taxes to finance this country's gargantuan foreign aid budget, some of which (I am reliably informed) actually does help the poor of the Third World rather than, say, helping India maintain nuclear bombs, or aiding China with its space programme. If they want to give up their holidays to pay more, I am sure they are free to do so, and so are the self-righteous people who make this point.

Anyway, my case is different. The British state pretends very hard that it can protect us from Covid by taking away our ancient liberties to live and move and make an honest wage. Evidence that this claim is true is, to put it mildly, sketchy.

One day, historians, possibly from another planet, will slice through the guff and propaganda of the past 15 months and tell us what really happened rather than what the BBC said happened. For now, everyone is too over-wrought to think about it, and I have given up trying.

But, thanks to fetters it has loaded on to itself with more than 50 years of bad diplomacy and utopian human rights laws, the same Government is quite unable to do one of the most basic duties of any state – the guarding of our coasts. We, not sordid people-smugglers, should decide who comes into this country.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9655359/PETER-HITCHENS-point-tourists-tests-migrants-walk-in.html

Edited June 6, 2021 by Warlord

[erat_forte]

Very amusing, very droll. Peter Hitchens in the Daily Mail says he has "given up trying" to think about it.

Now if someone could "slice through the guff" of this inarticulate rant we would al be grateful, thank you.

[Warlord]

30 minutes ago, erat_forte said:

Very amusing, very droll. Peter Hitchens in the Daily Mail says he has "given up trying" to think about it.

Now if someone could "slice through the guff" of this inarticulate rant we would al be grateful, thank you.

Talks a lot of sense, no? Migrants bringing in COVID and not vetted or checked properly yet me and you are treated like children

[Former postman]

Stopped reading when he started banging on about refugees

[byron78]

Peter Hitchens wouldn't know sense if it bite him on the ****.

[Warlord]

30 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Peter Hitchens wouldn't know sense if it bite him on the ****.

What's wrong with what he is saying?

He is pointing out that illegals come in with no checks yet you and me are subjected to checks and forced quarantine if we're coming back

Does not make sense especially from a gov't who is said to be taking the pandemic seriously

[Casual-observer]

But this is the house price crash forum, where seemingly a good chunk of folk inexplicably whinge about insane house prices but simultaneously defend to the hilt untapped migration no matter the context.

You've come to the wrong shop to find logic because presumably any discussion about civilised/balanced migration is too Brexity for the snobs amongst us. 

 

 

 

 

[shlomo]

46 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Peter Hitchens wouldn't know sense if it bite him on the ****.

He seems to be a very nasty piece of work, he very likely had very bad experiences in his formative years

[Staffsknot]

3 hours ago, Warlord said:

Talks a lot of sense, no? Migrants bringing in COVID and not vetted or checked properly yet me and you are treated like children

First off if a migrant can walk to Dover across the Channel the CofE might have him down as a skilled migrant under the Messiah job description, assuming he's not called Brian and a naughty boy.

Second it is a dumb argument like saying why am I subjected to airport security when a terrorist can buy bomb parts in UK and do it domestically or why is my passport checked when I live here and could afford the plane. Note the build up of 'poor family saved up hard' style sob aspect not why am I, Peter Hitchens not allowed to go to France to my 2nd home.

Thirdly the immigration is two completely different types - one by structured and established means, the other by ad-hoc methods. So again contrived drivel of the level I'd expect from said author. He neglects to mention that those immigrants will be taken to a detention centre, tested and subjected to bureacracy as he put it far beyond that of those clutching a UK passport already.

Simplistic comparisons rarely hold up and this is a prime example. Much of what is done is for the safety of the passengers and their families as much as wider society, bit like the limit on liquids aboard or battery size and type. All that is lost on those who just want a good old immigration rant to fire up the base and sell papers though.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Staffsknot

[Bob8]

3 hours ago, erat_forte said:

Very amusing, very droll. Peter Hitchens in the Daily Mail says he has "given up trying" to think about it.

Now if someone could "slice through the guff" of this inarticulate rant we would al be grateful, thank you.

Certainly.

A family having their holiday in Portugal interupted is going through far more that Syrians who have had to flee their homes and are making a precarious life-endangering crossing over the channel.

[Warlord]

10 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Certainly.

A family having their holiday in Portugal interupted is going through far more that Syrians who have had to flee their homes and are making a precarious life-endangering crossing over the channel.

If in fear of their lives they should claim asylum in France or whatever country they land in just like the Geneva convention says 

Britain should have very few immigrants being an island nation (similar to Japan )

[Bob8]

Just now, Warlord said:

If in fear of their lives they should claim asylum in France or whatever country they land in just like the Geneva convention says 

Britain should have very few immigrants being an island nation (similar to Japan )

Yes. Got it.

Still hardly compares to the trauma of having your holiday cancelled.

People like Peter Hitchens and you seem to be very delicate little flowers.

[Warlord]

2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Yes. Got it.

Still hardly compares to the trauma of having your holiday cancelled.

People like Peter Hitchens and you seem to be very delicate little flowers.

The point is we're in this hysterical pandemic where some come here unfettered (illegals) and unchecked while holidaymakers (citizens) aren't and go through numerous hoops 

If they're trying to stop COVID then it makes no sense

Edited June 6, 2021 by Warlord

[Bob8]

8 minutes ago, Warlord said:

The point is we're in this hysterical pandemic where some come here unfettered (illegals) and unchecked while holidaymakers (citizens) aren't and go through numerous hoops 

If they're trying to stop COVID then it makes no sense

You and Hitchens both like emotional/hysterical language.

There are minor limitations in place on a temporary basis. There is no need for your hysteria. This reflects that the virus is a major health issue, but not threatening life as we know it. The supermarkets are open, the pubs are open. Chill

I would hate to have to rely on you in an actual crisis.

[Warlord]

3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

You and Hitchens both like emotional/hysterical language.

There are minor limitations in place on a temporary basis. There is no need for your hysteria. This reflects that the virus is a major health issue, but not threatening life as we know it. The supermarkets are open, the pubs are open. Chill

I would hate to have to rely on you in an actual crisis.

While I agree the whole thing js a  joke ( look at Texas, no restrictions for months 29 million people and COVID dealt with) the two tier system where illegals come in with  few checks and citizens cannot is a silly and incoherent policy

Edited June 6, 2021 by Warlord

[Bob8]

Just now, Warlord said:

While I agree the whole thing js a  joke ( look at Texas, no restrictions for months 29 million people and COVID dealt with) the two tier system where illegals come in with  few checks and citizens cannot is a silly and incoherent policy

Lots of people died in Texas.

Denmark brought similar restrictions in than the UK, but weeks earlier and with lesss corruption. The result is no excess deaths rather than 140,000 in the UK.

You can make the argument about not wanting to help refugees, but the melodrama about missing out on a holiday (surely you did not get foreign holidays every year for much of your life?) is silly.

[Warlord]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Lots of people died in Texas.

Denmark brought similar restrictions in than the UK, but weeks earlier and with lesss corruption. The result is no excess deaths rather than 140,000 in the UK.

You can make the argument about not wanting to help refugees, but the melodrama about missing out on a holiday (surely you did not get foreign holidays every year for much of your life?) is silly.

It depends what you mean. I do not buy that 140,000 died of COVID. Hospitals are categorizing those with other ailments as COVID and then you have the PCR test which throws up lots of false positives, 

I do not believe the stats at all.  

[spyguy]

Several thousand illegal migrants, rocking up in England during a time of world wide lockdown and registration iwill set the political tone and future landscape massively.

At he moment, the UK is witnessing the implosion of the labour party as the various leaders cannot stand up and say - High levels of low skilled migrants are damaging to our voter base.

So the old Labour vote base has turned to other parties.

Peter Hitchens is correct to raise this as an issue - it is a major issue.

Sneering the Mail is daft.

 

 

[Warlord]

There is perversely a LOT of vested interests in this pandemic which is why you see the lockdowns  and furlough schemes etc. extended.

It's the gift that keeps on giving to some. Follow the money.

Meanwhile people are getting fed up with it and there are bound to be implications and protests...

Edited June 6, 2021 by Warlord

[Bob8]

21 minutes ago, Warlord said:

It depends what you mean. I do not buy that 140,000 died of COVID. Hospitals are categorizing those with other ailments as COVID and then you have the PCR test which throws up lots of false positives, 

I do not believe the stats at all.  

Well, yes. That makes sense.

If you discount facts, the eye witness reports and any factual evidence and just rely on being a hysterical ninny, then you can come to the conclusion you reach.

[debtlessmanc]

27 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Several thousand illegal migrants, rocking up in England during a time of world wide lockdown and registration iwill set the political tone and future landscape massively.

At he moment, the UK is witnessing the implosion of the labour party as the various leaders cannot stand up and say - High levels of low skilled migrants are damaging to our voter base.

So the old Labour vote base has turned to other parties.

Peter Hitchens is correct to raise this as an issue - it is a major issue.

Sneering the Mail is daft.

 

 

Brexit was at to a large extent about inward migration, there is little doubt. But many people (i admit myself) were worried not so much about migration (that affected me little and anyway the migrants i work with are very nice middle class ones) but about the danger of fascism. I did attempt to argue occasionally with my peer group that fascism was more likely to afflict us if we remained than if we left. Many of old school labour understood this, eg Dennis Skinner. I never understood the idea that the EU was a bulwark against extremism. We have neo-fascists in charge in Hungary and Poland and the EU just makes some vague noises about how undesirable they are. The real comedy was remianers and EU citizens claiming (Turkish heritage) Boris was a fascist. A lazy buffoon and libertarian yes, but no fascist.

mean while the AFD has taken the lead in the local saxony-anhalt elections...

https://www.dw.com/en/in-saxony-anhalt-far-right-afd-poised-to-upset-mainstream/a-57742250

Edited June 6, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[Wayward]

Yes follow the money...many of those defending high immigration have HMOs to fill.

[Bob8]

4 minutes ago, Wayward said:

Yes follow the money...many of those defending high immigration have HMOs to fill.

Who funded the brexit campaign? People with your best interests at heart?

[debtlessmanc]

5 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Who funded the brexit campaign? People with your best interests at heart?

A question best left to the historians

[Bob8]

Just now, debtlessmanc said:

A question best left to the historians

I doubt they will do better.

Big business wanted to remain. Some hugely wealthy people wanted to leave to help dodge tax and be more powerful the the Government.

I have my own rule of thumb, people who argue "Follow the money" have not done that.