Notting Hell Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Social Justice League said: I've had experience of this myself and so have a few of my friends. These days it's getting difficult to walk into a car dealership and pay say £5k cash for a second hand car with no trade in. They don't want to sell to you because they make no money out of it. This is how bad our fianacial system is becoming where hard cash is less valuable that bent fianance agreements and PCP rip offs. In my case I was going to buy a small run around for a family member and can't actually spend ready cash at a dealer ffs. Going to have to buy private it seems. Worthless fiat at it's finest. I don't understand why a trade-in is of benefit to them if you were never going to take out finance anyway? Trading in a car would not mean that you would therefore buy a car on finance? Am I missing something here? They can of course potentially sell the trade-in on finance, but that leaves them in a neutral position and have presumably still made at least something selling you the car for cash. More likely it's due to the dealer's internal financial arrangements. The car they sell to you is likely financed by the dealer themselves, and if you don't trade-in a car, their access to credit is reduced. They go from being able to finance 100 cars stock to 99 cars stock, because you didn't trade-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: Tbh, maybe they did sell both cars the day before I was due to view them, but I smell a rat. Like you said on another thread, maybe a push bike is the answer. I'm seriously considering getting rid of my car. If im going to be tracked everywhere then yes i would rather a push bike. What car you after ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 33 minutes ago, Notting Hell said: I don't understand why a trade-in is of benefit to them if you were never going to take out finance anyway? Trading in a car would not mean that you would therefore buy a car on finance? Am I missing something here? They can of course potentially sell the trade-in on finance, but that leaves them in a neutral position and have presumably still made at least something selling you the car for cash. More likely it's due to the dealer's internal financial arrangements. The car they sell to you is likely financed by the dealer themselves, and if you don't trade-in a car, their access to credit is reduced. They go from being able to finance 100 cars stock to 99 cars stock, because you didn't trade-in. Because the trade in quote will be less than what they can retail a car for. profit on finance profit on the trade in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notting Hell Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, longgone said: Because the trade in quote will be less than what they can retail a car for. profit on finance profit on the trade in. What about profit on the cash sale? Unless they will get more profit by waiting for a finance+trade in than accepting a cash sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Just now, Notting Hell said: What about profit on the cash sale? Unless they will get more profit by waiting for a finance+trade in than accepting a cash sale? There will be profit on a sale wether cash or finance, selling finance they get a kickback from the finance company. No trade in so cash buyer potential profit for the dealership is only on the one car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: I had thought that but the dealer assured me that I could and it worked. Had to wait 2 months though, from memory. Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. Am surprised how much actually working and saving for something is frowned upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notting Hell Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Just now, longgone said: There will be profit on a sale wether cash or finance, selling finance they get a kickback from the finance company. No trade in so cash buyer potential profit for the dealership is only on the one car. Fair enough, but a sale is a sale... why wait for only a potential finance+trade in? There must be substantially more profit for finance+trade even with a wait than compared with cash only today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Just now, Notting Hell said: Fair enough, but a sale is a sale... why wait for only a potential finance+trade in? There must be substantially more profit for finance+trade even with a wait than compared with cash only today. Sure there is. usually they offfer 2-3k less than what they can sell the car for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 56 minutes ago, longgone said: If im going to be tracked everywhere then yes i would rather a push bike. What car you after ? Honda Civic. They seem to be quite popular second hand too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 31 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: Honda Civic. They seem to be quite popular second hand too. Probably get a 2016 car for that there are a lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, longgone said: Probably get a 2016 car for that there are a lot of them. Yeah I just need to be patient. Just annoying when you feel like you're being penalised for having cash in hand, rather than being a desperate finance junkie. It's crazy nonsense when a salesman tries to argue the toss with you about how you should take finance and pay interest, when you can show them the money in £50's. They make themselves look like total idiots but I guess 90% of those who buy cars need finance and most dealers need the kickbacks from signing up desperados. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: Yeah I just need to be patient. Just annoying when you feel like you're being penalised for having cash in hand, rather than being a desperate finance junkie. It's crazy nonsense when a salesman tries to argue the toss with you about how you should take finance and pay interest, when you can show them the money in £50's. They make themselves look like total idiots but I guess 90% of those who buy cars need finance and most dealers need the kickbacks from signing up desperados. Cheaper the car less the markup hence all this BS could try the auctions or ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Social Justice League said: I've had experience of this myself and so have a few of my friends. These days it's getting difficult to walk into a car dealership and pay say £5k cash for a second hand car with no trade in. They don't want to sell to you because they make no money out of it. This is how bad our fianacial system is becoming where hard cash is less valuable that bent fianance agreements and PCP rip offs. In my case I was going to buy a small run around for a family member and can't actually spend ready cash at a dealer ffs. Going to have to buy private it seems. Worthless fiat at it's finest. Sorry fella your talking bull That’s an isolated experience my daughter just bought a golf 4 years old me a 911 8 years old. In both cases we initially were part exing but in the end paid cash - they were both relieved no trade in fuss and weren’t bothered re finance ( my daughters car was an official pre owned from a dealer ) Edited May 1, 2021 by GregBowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, GregBowman said: Sorry fella your talking bull my daughter just bought a golf 4 years old me a 911 8 years old. In both cases we initially were part exing but in the end paid cash - they were both relieved no trade in fuss and weren’t bothered re finance ( my daughters car was an official pre owned from a dealer ) I can only go by my experience. Many bent dealers are desperados who need finance kickbacks to stay afloat imo. Probably spending more like you did will get a better level of service out of the robbing b4stards. Car dealers in general are scum of the earth and I've bought a load of cars over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notting Hell Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 1. Determine cost of resettlement fees if you take out finance 2. Negotiate resettlement fees as a discount on the cash price of the car +£100 (you are doing the dealer a favour) 3. Get the car you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Social Justice League said: Just annoying when you feel like you're being penalised for having cash in hand, rather than being a desperate finance junkie. You probably aren't. If your money isn't wanted, there will be a reason for this. One option is that there is more profit in selling credit than selling cars. Another option is that buyers are hard-nosed about the price of what they are buying, but they are more easily strong-armed about the cars they sell. A more reasonable explanation, in my opinion, is that there are likely perverse incentives for the sales staff. Of course, if a vendor has badly motivated sales staff, then they probably don't care about the quality of their product either. Consider it a bullet dodged - they won't be a headache for you if you don't buy from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: I can only go by my experience. Many bent dealers are desperados who need finance kickbacks to stay afloat imo. Probably spending more like you did will get a better level of service out of the robbing b4stards. Car dealers in general are scum of the earth and I've bought a load of cars over the years. Buy brand new with gap insurance policy drive it about 6 months. take all the seats out and leave it on bricks somewhere hide the seats and wheels report it stolen let the police find it let insurance settle the finance bill then buy the shell from insurance company for a grand. put the seats and wheels back on. nearly a free car. do it the longgone way.🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Social Justice League said: I've had experience of this myself and so have a few of my friends. These days it's getting difficult to walk into a car dealership and pay say £5k cash for a second hand car with no trade in. They don't want to sell to you because they make no money out of it. This is how bad our fianacial system is becoming where hard cash is less valuable that bent fianance agreements and PCP rip offs. In my case I was going to buy a small run around for a family member and can't actually spend ready cash at a dealer ffs. Going to have to buy private it seems. Worthless fiat at it's finest. You should never tell the dealership you want to buy for cash, well not unless you like giving your cash away. We bought a new VW last month told the dealer who was pushing their finance deal that we wanted to borrow as much as possible and agreed the purchase. Next day we cancelled the finance and paid cash. The price we got was £1,750 better than if we had gone in offering cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 1 hour ago, A.steve said: You probably aren't. If your money isn't wanted, there will be a reason for this. One option is that there is more profit in selling credit than selling cars. Another option is that buyers are hard-nosed about the price of what they are buying, but they are more easily strong-armed about the cars they sell. A more reasonable explanation, in my opinion, is that there are likely perverse incentives for the sales staff. Of course, if a vendor has badly motivated sales staff, then they probably don't care about the quality of their product either. Consider it a bullet dodged - they won't be a headache for you if you don't buy from them. The dealers get a large kickback from the finance deal, some are upfront about this but most are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adarmo Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, longgone said: Buy brand new with gap insurance policy drive it about 6 months. take all the seats out and leave it on bricks somewhere hide the seats and wheels report it stolen let the police find it let insurance settle the finance bill then buy the shell from insurance company for a grand. put the seats and wheels back on. nearly a free car. do it the longgone way.🤣 Amazing! Finance cones down to commission plans. If oily boy doesn't get paid enough for shifting the car for cash he's going to hold out for a finance buyer. My view would be to get a discount in return for finance and then pay it off anyway. Oily boy gets his dosh and effectively shares a bit of it with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: The dealers get a large kickback from the finance deal, some are upfront about this but most are not. 🙂 I knew about this. The interesting bit is that if a vendor is only motivated to make the sale when they get the credit kick-back, then - in effect - their advertised pricing is misleading. One interpretation of the situation might be that there's an opportunity for cash buyers to pay the asking price (which is artificially lower than would otherwise be acceptable to the vendor). Another interpretation is that the vendor has over-priced their product through misleading customers to believe that it is genuinely offered for sale at the advertised price. With something like a car, I'd be inclined to place a high value on the honesty/integrity of the vendor - so... I'd take shenanigans involving pushing credit as being an indicator that the vendor is not serious about the product itself and are unlikely to provide customer satisfaction if I were to make a purchase from them. In the past, dealers have told me that I will get a better price if I accept credit - and that I can always pay it all off after the first month... without incurring any interest charges. I have always walked away. If a dealer intends to mislead their supplier (of credit) that they've found a credit-customer, it seems very likely that they'd also mislead their customer that they have the required product. Trust is important. Edited May 2, 2021 by A.steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: You should never tell the dealership you want to buy for cash, well not unless you like giving your cash away. We bought a new VW last month told the dealer who was pushing their finance deal that we wanted to borrow as much as possible and agreed the purchase. Next day we cancelled the finance and paid cash. The price we got was £1,750 better than if we had gone in offering cash. I've bought 4 VAG cars and this is what I've always done. Get a broker price and use that to negotiate. Get the manufacturer discounts Take the finance and cancel the agreement the next day. Dealers go absolutely mental about it. Last car I bought was 11k off list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house-down Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 23 minutes ago, 2buyornot2buy said: I've bought 4 VAG cars and this is what I've always done. Get a broker price and use that to negotiate. Get the manufacturer discounts Take the finance and cancel the agreement the next day. Dealers go absolutely mental about it. Last car I bought was 11k off list. Which broker did you use for second hand cars? I would also like to hear your view on getting a two year old very high mileage car versus a four year old low mileage car? My view has always been new and high mileage is better than older and low mileage but would like to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 49 minutes ago, house-down said: Which broker did you use for second hand cars? I would also like to hear your view on getting a two year old very high mileage car versus a four year old low mileage car? My view has always been new and high mileage is better than older and low mileage but would like to know This is for new. Orangewheels and drivethedeal are the two I use. Definitely for a relatively new diesel I wouldn't touch low mileage. I'm shocked the price of 1 year old cars. Might as well negotiate and buy new in a lot of cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wighty Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 7 hours ago, 2buyornot2buy said: I've bought 4 VAG cars and this is what I've always done. Get a broker price and use that to negotiate. Get the manufacturer discounts Take the finance and cancel the agreement the next day. Dealers go absolutely mental about it. Last car I bought was 11k off list. Is it that simple to cancel finance agreement?. Don't most have penalties for early payment?. Like cut price mortgage interest rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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