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Millennials own just 3% of all Household Wealth!!!


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59 minutes ago, kzb said:

It's the normal course of affairs that people accrue wealth as they get older.  This is true across the world and it has always been like that.  No-one would want it any other way.

Similarly it has always been the case that some offspring will luckily inherit a lot and others won't get a bean.  Life is unfair but there is nothing new about that.

What is a new source of unfairness is the HP disparity between regions.  Why should the offspring in London get £1m while northerner offspring only get £150k for a similar property?  Especially when that is purely down to HPI and not any work ethic of the parents?

Not talking affluence talking similar standard of housing to their folks. Which if need inheritence as the silver bullet means getting there 15 years later, probably having delayed a lot of other life choices

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18 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Not talking affluence talking similar standard of housing to their folks. Which if need inheritence as the silver bullet means getting there 15 years later, probably having delayed a lot of other life choices

Well, clearly it would be better if all housing was state-owned and assigned according to need.

This way, persons could live within walking distance of their workplace.  Single person gets a small flat, get married get a bigger flat or small house, have children get bigger home according to number in family. 

Special retirement zones at the seaside, and maybe people could even be given a small choice over where they want to live for the last 3 or 5 years of life (because retirement would be state pension only and your retirement age would be calculated according to how many years you have left on average for your gender and health conditions).

The rent is the same for every worker, probably as a percentage of earnings.

How about that?

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1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

Not talking affluence talking similar standard of housing to their folks. Which if need inheritence as the silver bullet means getting there 15 years later, probably having delayed a lot of other life choices

First thing is get the story straight.  Per cent of housing wealth on average versus age might not be the best comparability.

In things like this, the average is often skewed by a few rich individuals; it's not a normal distribution.  You would have to look at how the distribution has changed over time.  My feeling is that it has widened for all generations.  The fact that most property is owned by boomers might mean that about 50 of them own everything and the rest nothing. 

 

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54 minutes ago, kzb said:

First thing is get the story straight.  Per cent of housing wealth on average versus age might not be the best comparability.

In things like this, the average is often skewed by a few rich individuals; it's not a normal distribution.  You would have to look at how the distribution has changed over time.  My feeling is that it has widened for all generations.  The fact that most property is owned by boomers might mean that about 50 of them own everything and the rest nothing. 

 

If that's your straight story then you're currently watching Starship Troopers and recommending it for a non-fiction award. 

Your model would also not work as most tech startups worth millions due to crazy IPOs and bonkers IPOs are younger than boomer age.

So lets stop chucking out the spurious arguments each and face a fact most people accepted on here pages ago - the family home jumped in value for the boomers, they enjoyed HPI. Gen X mostly and Gen Y definitely missed out on that and consequently the house an avg boomer could buy in their 30s is beyond the means of avg millennial and many Gen X-ers. Those that joined the ladder also are often worse off than their folks relatively were at the same period in their lives.

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2 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

If that's your straight story then you're currently watching Starship Troopers and recommending it for a non-fiction award. 

Your model would also not work as most tech startups worth millions due to crazy IPOs and bonkers IPOs are younger than boomer age.

So lets stop chucking out the spurious arguments each and face a fact most people accepted on here pages ago - the family home jumped in value for the boomers, they enjoyed HPI. Gen X mostly and Gen Y definitely missed out on that and consequently the house an avg boomer could buy in their 30s is beyond the means of avg millennial and many Gen X-ers. Those that joined the ladder also are often worse off than their folks relatively were at the same period in their lives.

I knew analysis was a waste of effort on here.  You know it all so no point discussing.

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"It'd take a lot of effort to comprehensively unpick it all and I'm not bothering to do it.  I've realised that logical analysis is a waste of time. "

57 minutes ago, kzb said:

knew analysis was a waste of effort on here.  You know it all so no point discussing

You said the above earlier when you didn't like where it was headed - you don't want to do the analysis but if people come up with conclusions that you don't like its all wrong.

You've done no analysis you said so yourself you are just chucking out anything to say its not all bad for millennials / boomers had it tough and its just life.

That whole 'maybe everyone should get allocated a house' sarcasm thing blew any credibility you had tbh. 

You might as well tell jiltedjen she's imagined it and she ate too many avocado toasts and cafe lattes.

Critical analysis - non Londoner and soon to be 41 yet have a peer group many of whom earn more than their combined parents wages yet living in comparatively less spacious or secure housing than their family home as kids / current parental home, with little chance of getting something equiv in near future. Seems not to be London issue, everywhere got it proportionally to local wages so same effect.

Edited by Staffsknot
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1 hour ago, kzb said:

I knew analysis was a waste of effort on here.  You know it all so no point discussing.

Your "analysis" are the equivalent of climate change denial. It isn't up for debate anymore, the figures are in and it is widely acknowledged that the generations following the boomers are accruing less wealth at each equivalent age. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

You said the above earlier when you didn't like where it was headed - you don't want to do the analysis but if people come up with conclusions that you don't like its all wrong.

You've done no analysis you said so yourself you are just chucking out anything to say its not all bad for millennials / boomers had it tough and its just life.

No-one has critically examined that plot, including me.   What I did do is point out some potential problems it could have on the off chance that someone else might bother.  Things like that are never objective, they have been made to support a viewpoint.

22 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

That whole 'maybe everyone should get allocated a house' sarcasm thing blew any credibility you had tbh. 

I'm making the point that houses are bought not allocated.  If you want to match size to number of occupants, as you seem to, you will have to get more authoritarian.  That's just inevitable.

24 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

You might as well tell jiltedjen she's imagined it and she ate too many avocado toasts and cafe lattes.

That traffic jam caused by people queuing for a takeaway coffee is still there at peak times.  I really don't understand it especially as people are so poor.

 

25 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Critical analysis - non Londoner and soon to be 41 yet have a peer group many of whom earn more than their combined parents wages yet living in comparatively less spacious or secure housing than their family home as kids / current parental home, with little chance of getting something equiv in near future. Seems not to be London issue, everywhere got it proportionally to local wages so same effect.

Several of my offspring/nieces/nephews have got to the house buying stage of life.  All that have reached that age have done so (oop north, not in London) no problem.  All of them are more expensive houses than my own.  All of them are two-car households.

Where I work, young people have nice cars and most of them are buying houses.  Often three holidays abroad per year pre-Covid.  I've never been further than the Canary Islands, this lot are globe-trotters.  I had a rust bucket old Fiesta at their age.

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7 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Your "analysis" are the equivalent of climate change denial. It isn't up for debate anymore, the figures are in and it is widely acknowledged that the generations following the boomers are accruing less wealth at each equivalent age. 

 

Less absolute wealth or less wealth as a proportion?  I never did any analysis because I knew it would be wasted effort on here.  I did point out what are probably big problems with it.

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53 minutes ago, kzb said:

No-one has critically examined that plot, including me.   What I did do is point out some potential problems it could have on the off chance that someone else might bother.  Things like that are never objective, they have been made to support a viewpoint.

I'm making the point that houses are bought not allocated.  If you want to match size to number of occupants, as you seem to, you will have to get more authoritarian.  That's just inevitable.

That traffic jam caused by people queuing for a takeaway coffee is still there at peak times.  I really don't understand it especially as people are so poor.

 

Several of my offspring/nieces/nephews have got to the house buying stage of life.  All that have reached that age have done so (oop north, not in London) no problem.  All of them are more expensive houses than my own.  All of them are two-car households.

Where I work, young people have nice cars and most of them are buying houses.  Often three holidays abroad per year pre-Covid.  I've never been further than the Canary Islands, this lot are globe-trotters.  I had a rust bucket old Fiesta at their age.

Strange your in a bubble that manages to fit your argument where boomers ( assuming you are one why so defensive + sproggs looking to buy) are worse position relative to the younger gens. Hang on are you just unlucky I believe you arguement went?

Obviously that would also mean houses are completely affordible across generations and all the folks like ourselves and those renting are just plain wrong its all fine, fill your boots lads they're cheap, bloke who can't be bothered to do the analysis has errr not done the analysis and proclaimed it so.

I swear this now sounds like a Bird & Fortune sketch from the 90s - there is no problem, we haven't done the analysis because it may show the problem therefore by not accepting the problem there is no problem.

@dugsbody summed it up pretty nicely

Edited by Staffsknot
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1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

Strange your in a bubble that manages to fit your argument where boomers ( assuming you are one why so defensive + sproggs looking to buy) are worse position relative to the younger gens. Hang on are you just unlucky I believe you arguement went?

Obviously that would also mean houses are completely affordible across generations and all the folks like ourselves and those renting are just plain wrong its all fine, fill your boots lads they're cheap, bloke who can't be bothered to do the analysis has errr not done the analysis and proclaimed it so.

I swear this now sounds like a Bird & Fortune sketch from the 90s - there is no problem, we haven't done the analysis because it may show the problem therefore by not accepting the problem there is no problem.

@dugsbody summed it up pretty nicely

Well you have not analysed it either!  No-one has.  For heavens sake learn to be sceptical it is becoming more and more necessary:

1.  It's American.  How do we know the plot would be the same in Britain?

2. What is the definition of "household wealth" ?  How exactly is this figure calculated ?

Yes there is a problem with house prices in the SE especially.  I would much prefer them to be cheaper for many reasons.  But identity politics is not the answer.

As a presumably white male, you are yourself now classed as privileged.  Every riot for BLM and climate change will make you even poorer than you think you are now.  Why are you rioting to pay reparations for the slave trade when you are suffering so much?  I'm still waiting to see my first house price riot.

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11 hours ago, kzb said:

It's the normal course of affairs that people accrue wealth as they get older.  This is true across the world and it has always been like that.  No-one would want it any other way.

Similarly it has always been the case that some offspring will luckily inherit a lot and others won't get a bean.  Life is unfair but there is nothing new about that.

What is a new source of unfairness is the HP disparity between regions.  Why should the offspring in London get £1m while northerner offspring only get £150k for a similar property?  Especially when that is purely down to HPI and not any work ethic of the parents?

The point is, which the graph illustrates, that the boomers were much much wealthier than any other generation at comparable ages. This is nothing to do with a "normal course of affairs that people accrue wealth as they get older".

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48 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

The point is, which the graph illustrates, that the boomers were much much wealthier than any other generation at comparable ages. This is nothing to do with a "normal course of affairs that people accrue wealth as they get older".

It doesn't show that at all.

Here look what I found from that same source.

Millennials own largest real estate assets since records began

image.png.d613018825d414ae026c9ed6f5a54655.png

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, kzb said:

As a presumably white male, you are yourself now classed as privileged.  Every riot for BLM and climate change will make you even poorer than you think you are now.  Why are you rioting to pay reparations for the slave trade when you are suffering so much?  I'm still waiting to see my first house price riot.

Jesus someone's been at the firewater. Laurence Lozza Fox is that you? If Billie takes one for the team will you promise never to sing again?

So now we are pulling in all the other things you don't like - you missed Bill Gates and the chips he's injecting into us for mind control and the word snowflakes / woke as you've heard Littlejohn use them.

Like I said spurious BS arguments from the Daily Mail policy dept by look of it - reparations for slave trade I don't think are even part of BLM agenda and if climate change progresses we are all fkd and poorer lad. Maybe be skeptical of what sites tell you otherwise.

Right now you sound like the guy at the end of a Scooby Doo episode, railing against 'pesky kids' as if its them in the wrong. Irony being not coming across as if have a Scoobie.

You say graph shows millennials as having largest real estate assets since records began - by value which brings up two points then - houses cost more you agree and 'own' also includes heavily mortgaged on. So millennials bought in to extremely expensive housing if they tried to get on 'ladder' and therefore have much larger debts / mortgages. This doesn't make them wealthy it means they have a fk load of debt compared to their folks at same age.

Great way to backup your point by proving the opposite. Keep analysing your doing a great job for us without knowing.

Now I've got to go as Greta's Zoom chat and we're coming up with a plan to counter the boomers who are so clued up and done all the research and not falling for our evil plans for world domination.

Edited by Staffsknot
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5 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I’m not talking about your graph. 

Seriously talk about his graph it rips his argument apart - 'own' means purchased with a mortgage so millennials have bigger debts and less comparable financial security than their parents at that time of life.

Either that or he's denying price rises too.

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At least this thread does show the attitudes of boomers pretty well.

basically they think the did nothing wrong, kids are just lazy, they had it hard, head in sand mentality. 

it’s strange that a generation which had so much for free, even feel the need to try and take the mora high ground, also want respect, on top of everything else they got for free.

a truest greedy ‘me me me’ generation if there ever was one 

I think not being respected is probably the only things they have ever been denied in their lives, and thus why it’s jarring speaking to them. 

From a millennial point of view it’s like pouring salt on the wounds of a terrible situation, we are really actually struggling as a generation, and now we are expected to also respect the chief architects of said situation? 

again history will be written by the millennials, and future generations and there will be reams and reams of pages on the greed and arrogance of the ‘worst generation’ 

I guess it’s surprising for those with their gold plated pensions, mortgage free houses bought for a few pounds, to really care all that much about their own children’s generation. 
 

im sure plenty of them just think ‘my kid is just struggling and just dopey’ when in truth said kid is far exceeding their own achievements at their age compared to their own parents at the same age. 

This is already happening with the term ‘boomer’ being derogatory, it has connotations of lazy, entitled, unearned wealth. 

Edited by jiltedjen
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39 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

At least this thread does show the attitudes of boomers pretty well.

basically they think the did nothing wrong, kids are just lazy, they had it hard, head in sand mentality. 

it’s strange that a generation which had so much for free, even feel the need to try and take the mora high ground, also want respect, on top of everything else they got for free.

a truest greedy ‘me me me’ generation if there ever was one 

I think not being respected is probably the only things they have ever been denied in their lives, and thus why it’s jarring speaking to them. 

From a millennial point of view it’s like pouring salt on the wounds of a terrible situation, we are really actually struggling as a generation, and now we are expected to also respect the chief architects of said situation? 

again history will be written by the millennials, and future generations and there will be reams and reams of pages on the greed and arrogance of the ‘worst generation’ 

I guess it’s surprising for those with their gold plated pensions, mortgage free houses bought for a few pounds, to really care all that much about their own children’s generation. 
 

im sure plenty of them just think ‘my kid is just struggling and just dopey’ when in truth said kid is far exceeding their own achievements at their age compared to their own parents at the same age. 

 

I think beyond some cases like on here its more many boomers think what happened for them is what happens now and nothing has changed - remember its about 50+ years since they were 20s and starting out.

We had two good examples of this - first was on a parade where on older tankie came over after and went banging on about the standard of marching and all the modern softer kit. 5 min chat he'd only ever been to Germany with the BAOR but made out like he'd been in WW3. He was talking at 21 year olds who'd just done a year in Helmand.

Second is another old sweat but this time an ex major who ran off about modern army not up to scratch, kids on computers and how they never complained about needing goretex and a warm meal every night. Indulging him a bit we found out that he was the archetypal Major nice & dry - training regt and backroom man for everything but in his day we did x and didn't complain. My CO pointed out respectfully in his day the army was bigger and what they did with a 100 men then we expect of 30 or less. The reply - "utter tosh" - at this point we realised you shouldn't indulge the local 'old & bold' when they've had a port or two.

In both their minds the young aren't having it tough as they have all the modern advantages and everything is still exactly as it was in the 60s & 70s so it must be easier.

Edited by Staffsknot
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2 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

Jesus someone's been at the firewater. Laurence Lozza Fox is that you? If Billie takes one for the team will you promise never to sing again?

So now we are pulling in all the other things you don't like - you missed Bill Gates and the chips he's injecting into us for mind control and the word snowflakes / woke as you've heard Littlejohn use them.

The guy is a walking cliche. 

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1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

At least this thread does show the attitudes of boomers pretty well.

basically they think the did nothing wrong, kids are just lazy, they had it hard, head in sand mentality. 

it’s strange that a generation which had so much for free, even feel the need to try and take the mora high ground, also want respect, on top of everything else they got for free.

a truest greedy ‘me me me’ generation if there ever was one 

^

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3 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

Like I said spurious BS arguments from the Daily Mail policy dept by look of it - reparations for slave trade I don't think are even part of BLM agenda and if climate change progresses we are all fkd and poorer lad. Maybe be skeptical of what sites tell you otherwise.

This is what I told you about identity politics.  Concentrate on the issue not ad hominem.  You really need to be able to separate the argument from the person. 

These things will make you poorer, you know it.  If you still vote for it whilst knowing this, that's your choice, but don't then complain that you are in fact poorer as a result.

3 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

You say graph shows millennials as having largest real estate assets since records began - by value which brings up two points then - houses cost more you agree and 'own' also includes heavily mortgaged on. So millennials bought in to extremely expensive housing if they tried to get on 'ladder' and therefore have much larger debts / mortgages. This doesn't make them wealthy it means they have a fk load of debt compared to their folks at same age.

Looks like I have to explain it.  I posted that as an example of selecting data to show what you want.  That plot was from the same source as the plot under discussion.  I made up the headline.

(BTW, it's not clear if this is NET real estate wealth, or gross.  I don't know, just like there are many unknowns how the data is calculated in the plot under discussion).

3 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

Keep analysing your doing a great job for us without knowing.

Yes I've been sucked in yet again.  I'm fully aware of that, and also of its futility.

 

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2 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

At least this thread does show the attitudes of boomers pretty well.

JJ, all that post is deluded. You've built up a fantasy of hate I'm afraid.  I'm not saying there are not problems but thinking that taking from the boomers will help, well...

 

 

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