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1 minute ago, tep1 said:

I prefer 2 cheeks of the same ****. FPTP promotes only a 2 horse race and any party outside of this has marginal influence in this current system. Electoral reform to PR would empower voters to select other parties at the ballot box and would have a greater consequence on government policies. 

UK needs sea change in human welfare policy and more conservative on fiscal policy.

They are not going to change first past the post. 

 

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12 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

 The Conservatives do have principles beyond gaining power: Keeping up military spending. Law and order. The class system. 

If they want to be actually popular, they add lowering taxes, paying off the national debt and less bureaucracy. 

Their achilles heel is pocketing more and more taxpayers money.  

Their greatest strength is Labour's economic incompetence. 

This connects to Bruce Banner's argument that "these are not tories". My proposition is that Tory principles are flexible in pursuit of the fundamental bottom line which is to acquire and retain power.

All the things you mention above are tools to retain or get power.

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15 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

You're kidding yourself. 

Labour wasn't seen as fit to run a sweetshop, and its candidate was Corbyn.  

 

As I say, that is just a story you tell yourself to ease your conscience.

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5 minutes ago, “Nasty Piece of work” said:

It is not telling anybody who to vote for, just pointing out troughing, sleazy, filth, that took in and lied to the thicko General Public.

 

 

The "thicko" public are not that thick. They know full well how sleazy the Tories are. They like this, because it aligns with their values of zero sum game life, where you've got to tread on other people to get ahead. The Tories also tell them nice soothing stories that the reason they're not as well off as they think they should be is because of foreigners (or the woke, or minority privilege, etc). Complete vote winner there.

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11 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

They are not going to change first past the post. 

 

Of course they're not, because our public just sent several very clear messages that no reform is needed in the UK - it was the foreigners to blame all along.

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30 minutes ago, erat_forte said:

This connects to Bruce Banner's argument that "these are not tories". My proposition is that Tory principles are flexible in pursuit of the fundamental bottom line which is to acquire and retain power.

All the things you mention above are tools to retain or get power.

Gradual but relentless erosion of democracy.

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40 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

The "thicko" public are not that thick.

Joe Public is so thick it makes my nose bleed.  Why else do we have singing air freshener/toilet cleaner adverts, fast food and moronic tv/radio.  This whole environment is built to keep trash happy.  The next Joe you meet just ponder..... Look at the stats. and accept generally 50% are below the average.  Machine gun fodder.

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13 hours ago, zugzwang said:

 

Lowering taxes? Paying off the national debt?

In what universe?

 

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The Tories inherited a deficit of 10% of GDP and the aftermath of the financial crisis, now there's the pandemic. I think any government would have struggled with that.

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1 hour ago, dugsbody said:

As I say, that is just a story you tell yourself to ease your conscience.

you tell unbelievable lies about Labour's suitability for government in the minds of voters with no shame.  

You must be a card carrying member of something socialist!

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1 hour ago, erat_forte said:

This connects to Bruce Banner's argument that "these are not tories". My proposition is that Tory principles are flexible in pursuit of the fundamental bottom line which is to acquire and retain power.

All the things you mention above are tools to retain or get power.

Your phrase is a bit empty because it doesn't tell you how. 

Force and fraud (another old phrase) is  more illuminating. 

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57 minutes ago, 24gray24 said:

you tell unbelievable lies about Labour's suitability for government in the minds of voters with no shame.  

You must be a card carrying member of something socialist!

I don't support Labour, never have and will never in our current corrupt voting system. But the Tories are way worse. I recognise a fraud when I see one. People tell themselves lies about the Labour party in order to soothe their conscience. 

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4 hours ago, dugsbody said:

The "thicko" public are not that thick. They know full well how sleazy the Tories are. They like this, because it aligns with their values of zero sum game life, where you've got to tread on other people to get ahead. The Tories also tell them nice soothing stories that the reason they're not as well off as they think they should be is because of foreigners (or the woke, or minority privilege, etc). Complete vote winner there.

Since you hate Brits so much, why not move to Somalia or something?

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4 hours ago, dugsbody said:

As I say, that is just a story you tell yourself to ease your conscience.

The last GE was a second referendum on Brexit.

If Corbyn had just said "I support a full Brexit", he would now be Prime minister.

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4 minutes ago, Locke said:

The last GE was a second referendum on Brexit.

If Corbyn had just said "I support a full Brexit", he would now be Prime minister.

Nonsense.

He was too "antisemitic" remember. The right wing propaganda press was rolled out and destroyed him.

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21 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

He was too "antisemitic" remember. The right wing propaganda press was rolled out and destroyed him.

4 hours ago, dugsbody said:

As I say, that is just a story you tell yourself to ease your conscience.

 

Anyway, I don't know a single person who believed that.

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19 hours ago, 24gray24 said:

 The Conservatives do have principles beyond gaining power: Keeping up military spending. Law and order. The class system. 

If they want to be actually popular, they add lowering taxes, paying off the national debt and less bureaucracy. 

Their achilles heel is pocketing more and more taxpayers money.  

Their greatest strength is Labour's economic incompetence. 

Thats a bit 80s

Their greatest strength at the moment is that seriously fecking up appears to have no consequences and the press is generally supportive.

Its never been that way to this crazy extent before.

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3 hours ago, Locke said:

The last GE was a second referendum on Brexit.

If Corbyn had just said "I support a full Brexit", he would now be Prime minister.

No it wasn't. Had there been a second referendum I'm pretty sure we would now be enjoying EU membership.

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2 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

No it wasn't. Had there been a second referendum I'm pretty sure we would now be enjoying EU membership.

Didn't some newly formed party living in Tigga towers promise a second referendum? How did they get on?

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