Dirty Tory Corruption

[PeanutButter]

I'm voting SDP now. The main parties have lost me. 

 

[dugsbody]

12 minutes ago, pig said:

This is deeply misguided - you have to face up to and understand your fellow countrymen first rather than necessarily blaming the system or the even the politicians.

Over the last few days listening to radio call-ins it seems to me that many are still caught in an irrational trap. Its not good but its becoming deeply interesting.

Get out and vote.

Thank you but I disagree. I've tried to understand my fellow countrymen but the problem is I don't believe that most of them tell the truth. I also don't think my voting will serve any positive outcome for the country because what the country needs is a lesson in reality.

You obviously think differently but I've given this a lot of thought and the most I can engage in the system is to spoil my ballot. 

[Bruce Banner]

9 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Thank you but I disagree. I've tried to understand my fellow countrymen but the problem is I don't believe that most of them tell the truth. I also don't think my voting will serve any positive outcome for the country because what the country needs is a lesson in reality.

You obviously think differently but I've given this a lot of thought and the most I can engage in the system is to spoil my ballot. 

But spoiling your vote sends no real signal to the government. It could have been deliberate or incompetence. You may as well stay at home.

[miguel]

The Tories have largely tied up the older vote, be it through brexit or vaccines. That's all that matters, even though somewhere like Germany is doing much better on the covid death front despite the UK having significant advantages. We've seen it with Trump and the complete bllsht he was peddling after his election defeat. There's a certain person that will support Johnson no matter what he says and does. That person is a pretty large number of the electorate.  The brexit supporter will stick with him because he's their man. The over 50's because he's saved them from a horrible covid death. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by miguel

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, miguel said:

The Tories have largely tied up the older vote, be it through brexit or vaccines. That's all that matters, even though somewhere like Germany is doing much better on the covid death front despite the UK having significant advantages. We've seen it with Trump and the complete bllsht he was peddling after his election defeat. There's a certain person that will support Johnson no matter what he says and does. That person is a pretty large number of the electorate. 

Not mine, on either count.

[miguel]

1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

Not mine, on either count.

I know but you or I aren't the entire older electorate. 

[debtlessmanc]

okay its what aboutery but a current news item from france is interesting

https://www.voanews.com/europe/seven-italian-red-brigades-members-arrested-france

22 people convicted of murders, bombings and kidnapping have been shielded by france for 20 years from extradition to italy

from the article

Of those captured on Wednesday, Petrella had already been arrested in France in 2007, but the government of then-President Nicolas Sarkozy said in 2008 she would not be extradited to Italy due to her state of health. France’s Italian-born first lady, Carla-Bruni-Sarkozy, visited Petrella in the hospital at the time, leading some to believe she played a role in the French decision.

So we get a PMs wife who spends too much on soft furnishings, the french get one who thinks it is okay to harbour terrorists convicted of murder....

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

So we get a PMs wife who spends too much on soft furnishings...

No.  It’s all about having a serial liar as PM.

[miguel]

Even better. That makes everything in the UK splendid, the unicorns have arrived. Carry on Boris. There's plenty tax payers £££££££'sss to spray around.

Have you got another such story to cover Germany, Holland and Denmark? Thanks.  

Edited April 29, 2021 by miguel

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

26 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Thank you but I disagree. I've tried to understand my fellow countrymen but the problem is I don't believe that most of them tell the truth. I also don't think my voting will serve any positive outcome for the country because what the country needs is a lesson in reality.

You obviously think differently but I've given this a lot of thought and the most I can engage in the system is to spoil my ballot. 

I know how you feel. What would bring you back into the fold of voting again?

[debtlessmanc]

1 minute ago, “Nasty Piece of work” said:

No.  It’s all about having a serial liar as PM.

Boris is a buffoon, a liar, a libertarian and a charlatan. But no-one else was willing to actually do Brexit and labour put a terrorist loving weirdo up against him. There is not much else to say really. I think he may go this time, but who will we get instead. I have always voted labour and expect to safely go back to doing so now the weirdo has gone and Starmer is okay. Not sure they wiil win tho.

[pig]

10 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Thank you but I disagree. I've tried to understand my fellow countrymen but the problem is I don't believe that most of them tell the truth. I also don't think my voting will serve any positive outcome for the country because what the country needs is a lesson in reality.

You obviously think differently but I've given this a lot of thought and the most I can engage in the system is to spoil my ballot. 

Or become a politician

We're a country of hobbits, a dog with a bone, a toddler with a comfort blanket sustained with a two way toxic relationship with the media. I think we're going to have to concede our 'masses' are as easily led as the trump cult - its not a left or right thing thats just real life and real people I'm afraid and we're just going to have to learn to deal with it.

I've no doubt you've brought up your family to be better,  and while I think in a way thats an even more powerful contribution than voting its certainly not a replacement.

[debtlessmanc]

7 minutes ago, miguel said:

Even better. That makes everything in the UK splendid, the unicorns have arrived. Carry on Boris. There's plenty tax payers £££££££'sss to spray around.

Have you got another such story to cover Germany, Holland and Denmark? Thanks.  

I think you have too much belief that politicians are much better elsewhere.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/all/short_news/berlin-von-der-leyen-testifies-in-corruption-probe/

 

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

23 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Boris is a buffoon, a liar, a libertarian and a charlatan. There is not much else to say really. 

The attempt to bring in soft furnishings, or his squeeze is simple distraction politics.  He is a liar.  End of.  And if you were dim enough to vote for him..........  bless.

[debtlessmanc]

6 minutes ago, “Nasty Piece of work” said:

The attempt to bring in soft furnishings, or his squeeze is simple distraction politics.  He is a liar.  End of.  And if you were dim enough to vote for him..........  bless.

I voted Green, but i did expect him to win

edit to add, we live in a safe tory seat anyway

Edited April 29, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[dugsbody]

38 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

I know how you feel. What would bring you back into the fold of voting again?

A party with a realistic chance of winning that guaranteed (100%, no ref) to change our electoral system to something where my vote counts, ie. proportional representation.

If needed, they could offer a referendum on selecting which PR system we use, but no cop outs. As long as they guarantee no FPTP.

 

[dugsbody]

37 minutes ago, pig said:

Or become a politician

We're a country of hobbits, a dog with a bone, a toddler with a comfort blanket sustained with a two way toxic relationship with the media. I think we're going to have to concede our 'masses' are as easily led as the trump cult - its not a left or right thing thats just real life and real people I'm afraid and we're just going to have to learn to deal with it.

I've no doubt you've brought up your family to be better,  and while I think in a way thats an even more powerful contribution than voting its certainly not a replacement.

I will encourage my children (when they're old enough to understand) what voting means and educate them about the nuances of the system, then ask them to decide.

At that stage, I will probably turn out to vote but spoil my ballot, just to set an example of action rather than inaction. 

Even better if we had changed our electoral system by then though.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

1 minute ago, dugsbody said:

A party with a realistic chance of winning that guaranteed (100%, no ref) to change our electoral system to something where my vote counts, ie. proportional representation.

If needed, they could offer a referendum on selecting which PR system we use, but no cop outs. As long as they guarantee no FPTP.

 

What I don't understand are the people who post on here and voted against AV. It was not perfect anything is better than FPTP. 

[pig]

15 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

I will encourage my children (when they're old enough to understand) what voting means and educate them about the nuances of the system, then ask them to decide.

At that stage, I will probably turn out to vote but spoil my ballot, just to set an example of action rather than inaction. 

Even better if we had changed our electoral system by then though.

Critical analysis of information will be crucial going forward - in Finland its they start em young !:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/fact-from-fiction-finlands-new-lessons-in-combating-fake-news

[Bruce Banner]

33 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

I voted Green, but i did expect him to win

edit to add, we live in a safe tory seat anyway

Likewise, it renders our votes useless.

Mind you, if you have a representative democracy and they tell lies in their manifestos, with no consequences, it's pointless anyway.

[dugsbody]

Just now, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

What I don't understand are the people who post on here and voted against AV. It was not perfect anything is better than FPTP. 

Agreed. I voted for the change even if I was irritated that it was a slight cop out.

[winkie]

1 hour ago, miguel said:

The Tories have largely tied up the older vote, be it through brexit or vaccines. That's all that matters, even though somewhere like Germany is doing much better on the covid death front despite the UK having significant advantages. We've seen it with Trump and the complete bllsht he was peddling after his election defeat. There's a certain person that will support Johnson no matter what he says and does. That person is a pretty large number of the electorate.  The brexit supporter will stick with him because he's their man. The over 50's because he's saved them from a horrible covid death. 

Not saved as many as could have...the dead do not have a vote.

[longgone]

1 hour ago, winkie said:

Not saved as many as could have...the dead do not have a vote.

They do have a vote and credit reference somtimes.

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Director of firm behind Boris Johnson's flat refurb a Brexit-backing Tory donor

EXCLUSIVE: William Hobhouse and his wife Kate were major shareholders in Lulu Lytle's firm Soane Britain Ltd - who supplied the £800-a-roll gold wallpaper for Boris Johnson's No10 flat upgrade

[Bruce Banner]

I was going to vote LIbDem, Green, or such like, but the Local Tory has trespassed on our property and put his stinking election flyers under our windscreen wipers. Now nothing will do but a full blown Labour vote!