Will there be a FOURTH Lockdown?

[Riedquat]

10 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

The answer is not perpetually locking society down, it never has been.

The real issue is the NHS failed last March...I know that we don’t want to say it but it’s true because the moment that it could not function as normally with the additional load, it failed. All the hero worship and clapping was just a cover to make us all feel better.

Boris simply needs to state that it is the individuals responsibility to ensure that they socially distance correctly and as such ANYONE who presents at a NHS facility with COVID will be turned away as of 2 weeks from his announcement.

 

That should focus some minds!

"Social distancing" doesn't introduce an invisible, impermeable barrier 2 m from another person. You can get unlucky much further apart than that. There'll always be a few unlucky people (with millions of people it's almost inevitable that freak occurences will happen). So turning people away would definitely be unacceptable.

[Roman Roady]

Just now, Riedquat said:

"Social distancing" doesn't introduce an invisible, impermeable barrier 2 m from another person. You can get unlucky much further apart than that. There'll always be a few unlucky people (with millions of people it's almost inevitable that freak occurences will happen). So turning people away would definitely be unacceptable.

Systemic failure of our economy and the removal of the liberties of millions of people is unacceptable.

We have tried the Big Brother approach...it isnt working.

If you think you will be irreparably damaged by COVID or even killed...stay at home.

If not...get out there and make your fortune...this is the window of opportunity the youngsters have been waiting for and they are now being held back...for what???

[scottbeard]

14 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

The answer is not perpetually locking society down, it never has been.

The real issue is the NHS failed last March...I know that we don’t want to say it but it’s true because the moment that it could not function as normally with the additional load, it failed. All the hero worship and clapping was just a cover to make us all feel better.

Boris simply needs to state that it is the individuals responsibility to ensure that they socially distance correctly and as such ANYONE who presents at a NHS facility with COVID will be turned away as of 2 weeks from his announcement.

That post is rubbish from start to finish:

1. Absolutely no-one has ever, or would ever, think that perpetually locking down society is the answer to anything.

2. The NHS didn't "fail" - it's a health service, not a disaster treatment network.  It would be madness to constantly maintain enough spare capacity for a 1 in 100 year pandemic "just in case".  We'd have literally thousands of nurses with no work to do for 99 out of every 100 years.  It makes sense to have a "normal" capacity for 99 years, and take special action in the 100th year.

3. What utter nonsense - presumably you'd like the supermarkets to have food, the tap to still have running water, the bins to still be collected etc.  People have to do that.  Those people have to come into contact with other people to do that.  Some of them will catch COVID.  The NHS should treat them.  

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

Systemic failure of our economy and the removal of the liberties of millions of people is unacceptable.

We have tried the Big Brother approach...it isnt working.

If you think you will be irreparably damaged by COVID or even killed...stay at home.

If not...get out there and make your fortune...this is the window of opportunity the youngsters have been waiting for and they are now being held back...for what???

You asking me? My concern about the risk to myself personally from Covid is that it's in the "too low to give a damn about" level (which the paranoid frequently misrepresent as being blase and thinking there's no risk).

Lockdowns have worked in reducing the numbers. Whether or not you think they're justifiable or not (and I'm seriously bothered about just how easily pretty basic freedoms were thrown out of the window with little objection and plenty of paranoid little sh1ts cheering that on, showing no signs of having the two braincells necessary to understand why that's a concern) the data does point to them being effective in bringing numbers down.

The problem we've got now though is that efforts seem to be ramping up to clamour for further lockdowns without any promise of a way out - a bit of "oh shit, we've got vaccines now, need to think of some other reason!" I doubt there's deliberate malice in there but all too many have got themselves so worked up over Covid that they're simply scared witless of the idea of people behaving as normal ever again.

[Roman Roady]

1 minute ago, scottbeard said:

That post is rubbish from start to finish:

1. Absolutely no-one has ever, or would ever, think that perpetually locking down society is the answer to anything.

2. The NHS didn't "fail" - it's a health service, not a disaster treatment network.  It would be madness to constantly maintain enough spare capacity for a 1 in 100 year pandemic "just in case".  We'd have literally thousands of nurses with no work to do for 99 out of every 100 years.  It makes sense to have a "normal" capacity for 99 years, and take special action in the 100th year.

3. What utter nonsense - presumably you'd like the supermarkets to have food, the tap to still have running water, the bins to still be collected etc.  People have to do that.  Those people have to come into contact with other people to do that.  Some of them will catch COVID.  The NHS should treat them.  

Sorry to step on your corns!

It is now time to unshackle the youngsters and let them lead us out of this mess. We are destroying our society and economy to save the deadwood...who by the way seem to own rather a large chunk of our national wealth due to nothing else than their fortuitous birth dates.

Well lets see the younger generations make the same sort of use out of their birth dates.

I understand the argument about disaster treatment but this is going on too long now.

FYI I am mid 50's and as such am in the more vulnerable groups.

[scottbeard]

Just now, Roman Roady said:

Sorry to step on your corns!

It is now time to unshackle the youngsters and let them lead us out of this mess. We are destroying our society and economy to save the deadwood...who by the way seem to own rather a large chunk of our national wealth due to nothing else than their fortuitous birth dates.

Well lets see the younger generations make the same sort of use out of their birth dates.

I understand the argument about disaster treatment but this is going on too long now.

FYI I am mid 50's and as such am in the more vulnerable groups.

I quite agree - as I said further up this thread I don't expect us to go into any more lockdowns and I don't think we need to.

Why you then need to supplement that perfectly sound viewpoint with nonsense about the NHS failing, and people with COVID being turned away from treatment I have no idea.

(FYI I'm in my 40s therefore neither really young nor vulnerable....not sure what relevance that is.)

[Roman Roady]

2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

You asking me? My concern about the risk to myself personally from Covid is that it's in the "too low to give a damn about" level (which the paranoid frequently misrepresent as being blase and thinking there's no risk).

Lockdowns have worked in reducing the numbers. Whether or not you think they're justifiable or not (and I'm seriously bothered about just how easily pretty basic freedoms were thrown out of the window with little objection and plenty of paranoid little sh1ts cheering that on, showing no signs of having the two braincells necessary to understand why that's a concern) the data does point to them being effective in bringing numbers down.

The problem we've got now though is that efforts seem to be ramping up to clamour for further lockdowns without any promise of a way out - a bit of "oh shit, we've got vaccines now, need to think of some other reason!" I doubt there's deliberate malice in there but all too many have got themselves so worked up over Covid that they're simply scared witless of the idea of people behaving as normal ever again.

I am not asking anything, I just wanted to express what I am now finding unacceptable.

TBH as an older guy, lockdown suits me fine. I can work from home and anyhow i have done all of my traveling and partying.

I miss a cup of coffee or a cheeky pint when out walking the dog but thats about it.

The youngsters have not had such benefits and as such they are now being victimized IMPO.

My main self interest is to not want to retire into a society/economy that has been destroyed.

 

[scottbeard]

4 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

The problem we've got now though is that efforts seem to be ramping up to clamour for further lockdowns without any promise of a way out - a bit of "oh shit, we've got vaccines now, need to think of some other reason!" 

Who is doing that?

I'm not seeing that.

Everyone I know seems keen for it all to be over ASAP.

[sPinwheel]

14 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

...get out there and make your fortune...this is the window of opportunity the youngsters have been waiting for and they are now being held back...for what???

Because they can pass on the virus to older people. Unless they live in isolation, which is unlikely given how high house prices are at the moment...

[Roman Roady]

4 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

I quite agree - as I said further up this thread I don't expect us to go into any more lockdowns and I don't think we need to.

Why you then need to supplement that perfectly sound viewpoint with nonsense about the NHS failing, and people with COVID being turned away from treatment I have no idea.

(FYI I'm in my 40s therefore neither really young nor vulnerable....not sure what relevance that is.)

Two words that we seem to forget nowadays:- PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

You want freedom? well that comes with responsibility.

RE NHS failure...try telling the people who died or are dying from previously curable conditions that the NHS hasnt failed. Those people are the innocent victims of this pandemic...not the COVIDIOTS who cant follow basic advice.

[Roman Roady]

2 minutes ago, sPinwheel said:

Because they can pass on the virus to older people. Unless they live in isolation, which is unlikely given how high house prices are at the moment...

Then the older people stay at home!

[Roman Roady]

If the vaccines are not working, the ultimate scenario is that this virus runs its course and we all have to accept that. The sooner we get this over and done with, the better.

[scottbeard]

1 minute ago, Roman Roady said:

Two words that we seem to forget nowadays:- PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

You want freedom? well that comes with responsibility.

RE NHS failure...try telling the people who died or are dying from previously curable conditions that the NHS hasnt failed. Those people are the innocent victims of this pandemic...not the COVIDIOTS who cant follow basic advice.

You speak as if 100% of COVID cases have got it due to their own fault, when that's not true is it?  People can catch COVID at work despite taking all the right steps.  Even the vaccine is only 90-95% effective.  You can't just say "it's your own fault if you get COVID so you live or die on your own".

And the NHS has never - and will never - have sufficient spare capacity that it can treat a pandemic on top of a normal year.  As I have already said, we cannot - and should not - run the NHS on that basis.  That isn't the NHS failing, that's us taking a proportionate attitude to healthcare provision.  

[Social Justice League]

Governments around the world have shot themselves in the foot by over reacting to COVID in the first place.

They'll need to keep up the charade for years imo.  We are dealing with fooking idiots in 2021.

Nature will do it's thing whether we lock down until 2035 or not.

[Social Justice League]

I think lockdowns and anti protest laws suit Boris and Co as the failures of Brexit need to be covered up.

The current government are fooking c**ts, the lot of them.

[Roman Roady]

2 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

You can't just say "it's your own fault if you get COVID so you live or die on your own".

And the NHS has never - and will never - have sufficient spare capacity that it can treat a pandemic on top of a normal year.  As I have already said, we cannot - and should not - run the NHS on that basis.  That isn't the NHS failing, that's us taking a proportionate attitude to healthcare provision.  

First point in bold:- Yes you can. we have seen some extraordinary government responses over the past year...this would just be the latest.

 

Second point about the NHS:- why was there an exercise about this very scenario carried out with the damming report ignored? The NHS should at least have a plan and have a supply of in date PPE ready to be used. It was caught utterly flat footed by this and as a result failed us all IMPO. I understand that is not your viewpoint but its mine.

[scottbeard]

1 minute ago, Roman Roady said:

Second point about the NHS:- why was there an exercise about this very scenario carried out with the damming report ignored? The NHS should at least have a plan and have a supply of in date PPE ready to be used. It was caught utterly flat footed by this and as a result failed us all IMPO. I understand that is not your viewpoint but its mine.

Agree.

Not doing so isn't the same as saying the entire National Health Service has "failed"

[Roman Roady]

Just now, scottbeard said:

Agree.

Not doing so isn't the same as saying the entire National Health Service has "failed"

Shall we agree to disagree?

[scottbeard]

Just now, Roman Roady said:

Shall we agree to disagree?

OK.  I agree that you and I do not agree about this subject.

[Unmoderated]

1 minute ago, Roman Roady said:

First point in bold:- Yes you can. we have seen some extraordinary government responses over the past year...this would just be the latest.

 

Second point about the NHS:- why was there an exercise about this very scenario carried out with the damming report ignored? The NHS should at least have a plan and have a supply of in date PPE ready to be used. It was caught utterly flat footed by this and as a result failed us all IMPO. I understand that is not your viewpoint but its mine.

Presumably you'd be ranting this drivel if you'd been born 60 years earlier about why we didn't have a stockpile of spitfires, porotype jet engines and an atom bomb at the testing phase in 1938. Answer because it's too expensive to constantly come up with all the solutions to a what-if scenario. 

If anyone dies of a curable disease has the NHS failed? Take the other extreme and bankrupt the country on the off chance another virus comes along. The sheer expense of that is just utterly unworkable. The only part the NHS plays in preventing any disease is education and vaccination. Given that no vaccine was past trial stages until 9 months into this what else are they meant to do? Lobby against measures to prevent the spread of the virus and just stack and rack people on ventilators? 

I'd also point out that as someone in their 50s you're probably one of the lowest risk groups in the country right now since you're allowed to get your jab. 

[Unmoderated]

10 minutes ago, Social Justice League said:

I think lockdowns and anti protest laws suit Boris and Co as the failures of Brexit need to be covered up.

The current government are fooking c**ts, the lot of them.

What anti-protest law?

Aren't they reducing the level of lockdown?

[Unmoderated]

20 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

If the vaccines are not working, the ultimate scenario is that this virus runs its course and we all have to accept that. The sooner we get this over and done with, the better.

Yeah I agree, doing otherwise is like preventing coastal erosion - it's only buying time and at great expense. 

But isn't the evidence that the vaccines are working? 

[Social Justice League]

1 minute ago, Unmoderated said:

What anti-protest law?

Aren't they reducing the level of lockdown?

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment/2021/03/16/anti-protest-bill-freedom-dies-in-silence/

[sPinwheel]

25 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

Then the older people stay at home!

The same home that thier children live?

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

But isn't the evidence that the vaccines are working? 

Quite. That makes it very hard right now to argue that any other measures should be used going forward, because doing so is tantamount to saying "we've run out of anything else and this will have to be the norm forevermore," which is unsustainable.