The wealth reaper

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Darth Sunak is coming for your "wealth" 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-tax-idUKKBN2AF0K6?taid=602a3a72bbd8010001ee5f66&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

A group of three economists, including an advisor to the UK Treasury, published a report in December recommending a one-off tax on assets including property as a way to raise 260 billion pounds.

The estimate by the Wealth Tax Commission was based on the tax applying to everyone with individual wealth above 500,000 pounds - or 1 million pounds for a couple - and charged at 1% a year for five years.

Raising that amount of revenue through more traditional taxes would require big hikes in income tax and value-added tax which were ruled out by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson before his 2019 election victory, the commission said.

 

People are about to get a lot poorer while 10 houses Sunak supports the housing bubble.

 

[micawber]

Much easier than addressing the welfare budget.

[msi]

Bring it on.  Include Bitcoin and offshore holdings.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

2 minutes ago, msi said:

Bring it on.  Include Bitcoin and offshore holdings.

Yeah, that's a funny one, you could be sitting on £2Bn in bitcoin and not pay a penny 

Edited February 16, 2021 by TheCountOfNowhere

[TheCountOfNowhere]

12 minutes ago, micawber said:

Much easier than addressing the welfare budget.

Or handing the grotesque public sector pay cuts.

 

[frrich11]

44 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Darth Sunak is coming for your "wealth" 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-tax-idUKKBN2AF0K6?taid=602a3a72bbd8010001ee5f66&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

A group of three economists, including an advisor to the UK Treasury, published a report in December recommending a one-off tax on assets including property as a way to raise 260 billion pounds.

The estimate by the Wealth Tax Commission was based on the tax applying to everyone with individual wealth above 500,000 pounds - or 1 million pounds for a couple - and charged at 1% a year for five years.

Raising that amount of revenue through more traditional taxes would require big hikes in income tax and value-added tax which were ruled out by British Prime Minister Boris  Johnson before his 2019 election victory, the commission said.

 

People are about to quality spin palace casino reviews https://qualitycasinos.cc/spin-palace-casino/ get a lot poorer while 10 houses Sunak supports the housing bubble.

 

Here we go again..

[Fromage Frais]

How would that work for business and houses.

How would it be fair for example for someone with say a 1/4 share in a 4 million £ business vs someone with a 1 million £ house.

It is difficult to value minority shareholdings and say that business was 0 and then became a awesome business but the owner has not taken the money out of it preferring to plough the profits back in

If they come alone and say the business is worth 4 million (the price for selling the whole lot) and then ask the 1.4 shareholder for 100K 10% of his shares value how will he get that money?.... take it out of the business or maybe if that business is a pub/hotel go under.  Maybe he has a shareholders agreement and it states he cannot take money out so he/she is screwed due to working hard and owning a share of a fast growing company.

Same with houses if they dont do it on houses then why bother the bizarre thing about the UK is that you have so many in debt people in houses with paper profits.  Just ask a room of 50 year olds to put their hands up if they own their own home and then ask them to keep them up if they could by their own home again with a 25% deposit and a 5 x mortgage.

So once you remove businesses and houses it becomes less of an attractive tax and you end up just going for savings and passive shares etc.

You then just have a tax on the poor prudent buggers who did not get into debt or are saving up for a silly priced house.

Just a crap idea a mortgage Tobin tax or property tax is a lot better idea as that both makes money and gets the market moving and improves its efficiency.

The public are screwed, the private sector is screwed in many parts and its awaiting a further pummelling once the assistance schemes end.

The only target I can see is lazy money in expensive property in Labour seats.  The problem with many Tory MPs is that they represent X = White van working areas but their social circles = Y bankers, lobbyists etc etc

 
 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Fromage Frais

[Freki]

I wonder how they would implement it. They went away with paperwork for millions of people on PAYE. They would need every resident to fill a form, if Brexit had teething problem what about that!

[msi]

2 minutes ago, Freki said:

I wonder how they would implement it. They went away with paperwork for millions of people on PAYE. They would need every resident to fill a form, if Brexit had teething problem what about that!

All of the Data is already available to HMRC, if not already loaded to their 'Connect' Big Data platform.  Offshore holdings are already subject to specific HMRC disclosure deals, and Bitcoin can be tracked from the exchanges (despite how 'clever' some think they are, you will leave a trail as you change currency into Bitcoin).

 

Send a form for everyone to 'declare' and compare to what you already know. Bingo; either you declare and pay or you are now guilty of misrepresentation  and now subject to formal investigation.  Electronic forms are straightforward to do.

 

The hard part is setting legal precedents to allow automated judgements and collections, avoiding clogging the Courts with cases and awkward precedents.  HMRC have learnt this lesson (see Disguised Renumeration, Payroll loans etc).

[adarmo]

I'm broadly in favour provided this has an end date and will never be extended. 

Many will be aware that income tax started off as a 1% levy on high earners to fund another national emergency. 

[Freki]

11 minutes ago, msi said:

All of the Data is already available to HMRC, if not already loaded to their 'Connect' Big Data platform.  Offshore holdings are already subject to specific HMRC disclosure deals, and Bitcoin can be tracked from the exchanges (despite how 'clever' some think they are, you will leave a trail as you change currency into Bitcoin)

So far, this is a conjuncture. Nobody here has seen Connect, and if they managed to accurately determine anyone ( do they use NIN as a key? Can you be a resident without a NIN?)'s net wealth.

What about people storing luxury watches, wines, classic cars and what not that apparently appreciated greatly since the GFC, but are more a consumer good than a traditional way of storing wealth (I drank that wine for my daughter's wedding!), same goes with art. How do you give an NPV to all those things.

What about mortgaged properties? Do they know my mortgage term and interest rate to calculate my net asset? How thinly do they evaluate properties price changes?

What would happen to ISAs? Are they in or out?

The work seems herculean, and I doubt it is oven ready. 

Anyway, in this day and age, taxing income / businesses can't be the alpha and omega of tax policies. Wealth is now more than ever mostly unearned, so I won't criticise that move. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Freki

[Sithuk]

Housing wealth is not counted for benefits. Why would it be for this wealth tax? A cash deposit saving for a house on the other hand...

[Ballyk]

Finally after 40 years of conservative governments, a proper socialist in power!

Who'd have thought it would come in the form of billionaire Sunak?

[longgone]

They can phuck off. They have over 16k in assets so they are not entitled to nowt. get stuffed. 

Rishi can go sleep with the fishies.  

[dpg50000]

1 hour ago, Fromage Frais said:

Same with houses if they dont do it on houses then why bother

Erm, the proposal includes property:

A group of three economists, including an advisor to the UK Treasury, published a report in December recommending a one-off tax on assets including property as a way to raise 260 billion pounds.

[Huggy]

2 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Yeah, that's a funny one, you could be sitting on £2Bn in bitcoin and not pay a penny 

Apparently Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, so a tax bill of zero sounds fair

[markyh]

2 hours ago, msi said:

Bring it on.  Include Bitcoin and offshore holdings.

Lol. What bitcoin wealth? 5 years eh, funny enough maybe Hodlers can delay selling until 2027.  You cant tax what you cant find. 

[Biggus]

People in the UK already pay too much tax. The job of the chancellor should not be to soak the public to pay for an oversized state. Instead the amount collected in revenue ought to be spent carefully on priorities, using what's known as a 'budget'. That means making tough choices and cutting spending when needed.

Last year the government caused the economy to contract by shutting large parts of it down. So this year they should spend less money as their revenue falls.

In my opinion the first step should be the appointment of a chancellor that understands the meaning of English words. Take this comical sttement, for example.

'Since the start of the pandemic we've invested over £280 billion to protect jobs and livelihoods across the UK and support our economy and public services.

"This has clearly been the fiscally responsible thing to do'

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1388359/Budget-2021-when-is-the-budget-2021-uk-evg

The word invest does not mean the same thing as spend. Spending two hundred and eighty thousand million pounds paying people to do nothing for a year is not an investment. It is spending. Also fiscal responsibility does not mean chucking piles of cash around like a crazed chimpanzee. Rather it means spending as small amount as possible on priorities.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Biggus

[markyh]

1 hour ago, msi said:

 and Bitcoin can be tracked from the exchanges (despite how 'clever' some think they are, you will leave a trail as you change currency into Bitcoin).

Exchanges all over the world, HMRC has agreements with a handful. Good luck getting data for a Russian exchange that will buy for BTC and pay you in GBP. 

Why even use an exchange, over 20 VISA / MASTERCARD products now that allow you to load Bitcoin and other key Cryptos , and spend it as FIAT via instant spot exchange rates. 

The more they squeeze, the more Crypto taxes will slip between their fingers.  10% is ok, any more they scan swivel.   

[morty]

So they reduce your deposit savings to keep the housing market afloat?  When does this end, kicking the can.

[NuBrit]

Bring it on, I say.

[longgone]

5 minutes ago, markyh said:

Exchanges all over the world, HMRC has agreements with a handful. Good luck getting data for a Russian exchange that will buy for BTC and pay you in GBP. 

Why even use an exchange, over 20 VISA / MASTERCARD products now that allow you to load Bitcoin and other key Cryptos , and spend it as FIAT via instant spot exchange rates. 

The more they squeeze, the more Crypto taxes will slip between their fingers.  10% is ok, any more they scan swivel.   

do you think its wise posting on a public forum 😂

darwin award for salty coiners. 

[markyh]

2 minutes ago, longgone said:

do you think its wise posting on a public forum 😂

darwin award for salty coiners. 

But "Connect" knows all apparently, so this is old news surely? Still has caught my "everything" cash kitchen fitter mate who has never paid above 20% tax and who's wife claims tax credits, despite have a £450k with no mortgage for at least 5 years, BMW, 2 holidays a year, facebook galore meals out, gifts from Pandora. 

He takes enough "BACS / Cheque" work a year to get him over £12k , all the time pushing discounts "for cash" , once the reaches enough to a pay a bit of tax on the books, £20kish, he stops taking non cash paying customers and delays them until after April 6th. Regular £70k+ , only ever declares £20k. what he cant deduct / offset legit via his accountant, they spend. 

£10k for Xmas on gifts for the five of them is not unknown.  Has been a killer for them during covid though, less work, bugger all Self employeed furlough profit to claim, and cash bans everywhere. 

[longgone]

4 minutes ago, markyh said:

But "Connect" knows all apparently, so this is old news surely? Still has caught my "everything" cash kitchen fitter mate who has never paid above 20% tax and who's wife claims tax credits, despite have a £450k with no mortgage for at least 5 years, BMW, 2 holidays a year, facebook galore meals out, gifts from Pandora. 

He takes enough "BACS / Cheque" work a year to get him over £12k , all the time pushing discounts "for cash" , once the reaches enough to a pay a bit of tax on the books, £20kish, he stops taking non cash paying customers and delays them until after April 6th. Regular £70k+ , only ever declares £20k. what he cant deduct / offset legit via his accountant, they spend. 

£10k for Xmas on gifts for the five of them is not unknown.  Has been a killer for them during covid though, less work, bugger all Self employeed furlough profit to claim, and cash bans everywhere. 

😂

i will save that gives me something to aspire to. Plastic jewellery left over from Ratner's and 10k of junk from amazon.

he is the reason why crypto will be taxed heavily yet you celebrate it.  

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

3 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Darth Sunak is coming for your "wealth" 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-tax-idUKKBN2AF0K6?taid=602a3a72bbd8010001ee5f66&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

A group of three economists, including an advisor to the UK Treasury, published a report in December recommending a one-off tax on assets including property as a way to raise 260 billion pounds.

The estimate by the Wealth Tax Commission was based on the tax applying to everyone with individual wealth above 500,000 pounds - or 1 million pounds for a couple - and charged at 1% a year for five years.

Raising that amount of revenue through more traditional taxes would require big hikes in income tax and value-added tax which were ruled out by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson before his 2019 election victory, the commission said.

 

People are about to get a lot poorer while 10 houses Sunak supports the housing bubble.

 

Interesting thing is that the government through its policies has forced a lot of middle class wealth into housing.

So although they have shied away from taxing this area in the past, it represents a significant potential for revenue generation.

My guess is housing is the #1 wealth sink for the middle class - so much so that if they try to tax other areas the revenue they will raise will be a pittance by comparison.

Now the question is, do they have the guts to do it ?