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Dishy Rishi reportedly considering abolishing stamp duty and council tax and replacing them with an annual levy on all properties


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3 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

The issue is wages relative to productivity more than tax, I'd say. 

I'd have to disagree.  We're paying 60/70% tax so someone else can have a jolly old time.  

Cut that to 20% and get rid of BIG government and we'll all be so much better off, people would work harder too as they've keep what they earn.

It's worked in other parts of the world.

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2 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I'd have to disagree.  We're paying 60/70% tax so someone else can have a jolly old time.  

Cut that to 20% and get rid of BIG government and we'll all be so much better off, people would work harder too as they've keep what they earn.

It's worked in other parts of the world.

Where?

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2 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Where?

Singapore personal tax rates start at 0% and are capped at 22% (above S$320,000) for residents and a flat rate of 15% to 22% for non-residents. To increase the resilience of taxes as a source of government revenue, Goods and Services Tax (GST) was introduced in 1994. The current GST rate is 7%.

 

I believe hong kong used to be the same sort of level·

 

You work, you prosper, you sit on your a**e, you dont.

 

You dont think all the bankers go to Singapore for the weather do you ?

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere
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1 minute ago, PeanutButter said:

Where?

Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Monaco, Belize, the Bahamas.

The world's capital flight regimes, inhabited principally by shell companies and financial criminals.

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19 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I'd have to disagree.  We're paying 60/70% tax so someone else can have a jolly old time.  

Cut that to 20% and get rid of BIG government and we'll all be so much better off, people would work harder too as they've keep what they earn.

It's worked in other parts of the world.

If you are paying 66.7% on X, you end up with more than if you pay 50% on X/2 wage. 

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20 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

I'd have to disagree.  We're paying 60/70% tax so someone else can have a jolly old time.  

Cut that to 20% and get rid of BIG government and we'll all be so much better off, people would work harder too as they've keep what they earn.

No, there's no evidence people work harder. And people end up in poverty due to medical costs, etc. The Danes have a better GINI ratio, are happier, pay more tax, but are more productive and have a good level of disposable income. 

 

20 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

It's worked in other parts of the world.

No, it hasn't. 

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5 hours ago, NobodyInParticular said:

No, there's no evidence people work harder. And people end up in poverty due to medical costs, etc. The Danes have a better GINI ratio, are happier, pay more tax, but are more productive and have a good level of disposable income. 

 

No, it hasn't. 

The Danes also have flexisecurity, which is a very interesting system that benefits both employees and employers. Well, for about 25% of the population in work anyway. The problem is a system like this doesn't really work unless you have a well funded welfare state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexicurity

Quote

Flexicurity (a portmanteau of flexibility and security) is a welfare state model with a pro-active labour market policy. The term was first coined by the social democratic Prime Minister of Denmark Poul Nyrup Rasmussen in the 1990s.

The term refers to the combination of labour market flexibility[1] in a dynamic economy and security for workers.

The Government of Denmark views flexicurity as entailing a "golden triangle" with a "three-sided mix of (1) flexibility in the labour market combined with (2) social security and (3) an active labour market policy with rights and obligations for the unemployed".[2]

Edited by spacedin
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12 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Singapore personal tax rates start at 0% and are capped at 22% (above S$320,000) for residents and a flat rate of 15% to 22% for non-residents. To increase the resilience of taxes as a source of government revenue, Goods and Services Tax (GST) was introduced in 1994. The current GST rate is 7%.

 

I believe hong kong used to be the same sort of level·

 

You work, you prosper, you sit on your a**e, you dont.

 

You dont think all the bankers go to Singapore for the weather do you ?

I've been to Singapore. Lots of malls, lots of shopping. Humid. Good night markets. Seems to very much be a rich person's playground - is that what we want here? More bankers? 

If what you're suggesting is such a very good idea then why can't I see any massive western economies that have done it? Why is it always tiny, high density places with rampant property prices (we are, after all, on HPC - the place where everyone agrees house prices are too high)? 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I've been to Singapore. Lots of malls, lots of shopping. Humid. Good night markets. Seems to very much be a rich person's playground - is that what we want here? More bankers? 

If what you're suggesting is such a very good idea then why can't I see any massive western economies that have done it? Why is it always tiny, high density places with rampant property prices (we are, after all, on HPC - the place where everyone agrees house prices are too high)? 

 

 

For most of human history, you could have made the exact same argument about slavery.

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56 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I've been to Singapore. Lots of malls, lots of shopping. Humid. Good night markets. Seems to very much be a rich person's playground - is that what we want here? More bankers? 

If what you're suggesting is such a very good idea then why can't I see any massive western economies that have done it? Why is it always tiny, high density places with rampant property prices (we are, after all, on HPC - the place where everyone agrees house prices are too high)? 

 

 

Britain is already a rich persons playground, have you seen their private estates ?

Why haven't the western governments done it ?  They're all owned by 1000 year old famillies who grabbed all the land/wealth.

People are so oppressed now they dont even know it.

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Singapore is much less of a rich persons playground than London, IMO. 

It's a bit like an average Singaporean coming over to London for a holiday and remarking that London is a place for the rich; of course they only go to the tourist places where all the money is and property prices are high.

The HDB model I think is much better than ours here, although collectively as a population they are better behaved and less likely to complain. IMO it's hard to work here, and we've tried it already in some ways, the old council estates are crime-ridden hotspots.

I don't think the government would even attempt it because of the effect on house prices and upsetting people. Financially it is feasible, but few people are interested in the long-term.

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15 hours ago, Freki said:

How on earth did you arrive to this dichotomy? Who is the quite small group of Tories? Who is the 'mega rich lefty labour supporters?

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-which-party-received-the-most-donations/

image.png.a911129639bbfb49033ce3fe51ad7962.png

The small group of tories beats the donation from the mega rich lefty by 83 to 1. What charitable act seriously.

My statement was in inverted commas with a question mark because I was responding to another post that made that claim. I was asking the claimant to justify their statement because I didn't believe it was true.

Glad to help. 

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6 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I've been to Singapore. Lots of malls, lots of shopping. Humid. Good night markets. Seems to very much be a rich person's playground - is that what we want here? More bankers? 

If what you're suggesting is such a very good idea then why can't I see any massive western economies that have done it? Why is it always tiny, high density places with rampant property prices (we are, after all, on HPC - the place where everyone agrees house prices are too high)? 

 

 

Yes - what we (or you) seem to want is high levels of crime and anti social behaviour, a severe drugs problem with the criminality that flows from it, desperate evident in your face poverty, kids going hungry, a lack of community cohesion, a society where work does not pay and where you see the homeless sleeping on the street. Let alone our response to COVID and our failing NHS.  None of which arises in Singapore - where at least it is warm enough to sleep out 365 days of the year.

Maybe the Singapore model has its upsides! 

 

 

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5 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Yes - what we (or you) seem to want is high levels of crime and anti social behaviour, a severe drugs problem with the criminality that flows from it, desperate evident in your face poverty, kids going hungry, a lack of community cohesion, a society where work does not pay and where you see the homeless sleeping on the street. Let alone our response to COVID and our failing NHS.  None of which arises in Singapore - where at least it is warm enough to sleep out 365 days of the year.

Maybe the Singapore model has its upsides! 

Really? That's the angle you're going for? Wow, you got me - that's my diabolical plan. I just love crime. 

Singapore's hidden poverty problem

Quote

Despite holding the world's highest concentration of millionaires, the city-state also boasts the second-biggest inequality gap among Asia's advanced economies.

They didn't even bother measuring poverty until 2012 - amazing how you can claim to be utopia when the poor aren't counted. 

Becoming another country won't fix this one. 

 

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42 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Really? That's the angle you're going for? Wow, you got me - that's my diabolical plan. I just love crime. 

Singapore's hidden poverty problem

They didn't even bother measuring poverty until 2012 - amazing how you can claim to be utopia when the poor aren't counted. 

Becoming another country won't fix this one. 

 

Reminds me of that old Thatcher comment at PMQs when responding to some Lib Dem on growing ‘inequality’.

You would rather the poor were poorer as long as the rich were less rich!

You would rather a poor person  earned £10k and a millionaire £2m than a poor person earned £20k and a millionaire £5m. The poor man is much worse off but relative inequality is lower.

Even the poorest Singaporean is still richer than the overwhelming majority of people in south east Asia.

 

Edited by MARTINX9
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This debate around Singapore is so ridiculous. You can't run a country of close to 70M like you would a city state. 

Those small countries have a totally different list of options in terms of game theory. As long as they don't diplomatically upset the rest of the world they can undermine our western societies by undercutting and catering to their much smaller population. The cancers of Europe are mainly called Luxembourg, RoI and the Netherlands

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2 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Reminds me of that old Thatcher comment at PMQs when responding to some Lib Dem on growing ‘inequality’.

You would rather the poor were poorer as long as the rich were less rich!

You would rather a poor person  earned £10k and a millionaire £2m than a poor person earned £20k and a millionaire £5m. The poor man is much worse off but relative inequality is lower.

Even the poorest Singaporean is still richer than the overwhelming majority of people in south east Asia.

 

This look like levelling up to you? :rolleyes:

gini-index-uk.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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11 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Reminds me of that old Thatcher comment at PMQs when responding to some Lib Dem on growing ‘inequality’.

You would rather the poor were poorer as long as the rich were less rich!

You would rather a poor person  earned £10k and a millionaire £2m than a poor person earned £20k and a millionaire £5m. The poor man is much worse off but relative inequality is lower.

Even the poorest Singaporean is still richer than the overwhelming majority of people in south east Asia.

 

If it’s soooooooo great why don’t you go live there? No really, I want to know why you’d to prefer to argue on a UK HPC forum than pack your bags and head for utopia. 

So far you’ve accused me of wanting evil crime and wanting poverty - but you haven’t explained why this brilliant Singaporean strategy has not been deployed everywhere else, since it’s clearly the only way to ensure everyone is rich. 

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On 19/01/2021 at 08:14, PeanutButter said:

I've been to Singapore. Lots of malls, lots of shopping. Humid. Good night markets. Seems to very much be a rich person's playground - is that what we want here? More bankers? 

If what you're suggesting is such a very good idea then why can't I see any massive western economies that have done it? Why is it always tiny, high density places with rampant property prices (we are, after all, on HPC - the place where everyone agrees house prices are too high)? 

 

 

No really just a rich persons playground... even the lower paid can do well enough in a low tax/low benefits regime if they're willing to put the hours in, the only losers are the feckless and workshy.

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We should definitely follow 9

On 1/18/2021 at 7:30 PM, zugzwang said:

Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Monaco, Belize, the Bahamas.

The world's capital flight regimes, inhabited principally by shell companies and financial criminals.

All very nice places to live if you had the money . I wouldn't mind living in one of those jurisdictions! 

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