Bruce Banner Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Deckard said: Well said, Scottie! Finally some sense in this ridiculous thread. Lol, such anger. It's just a poll to see what the opinion on this forum is and so far it's firmly in favour of your opinion so you want it shut down while the going's good and stifle any further debate. Now can we please get back on topic and discuss the subject rather than the existence of the thread. Edited January 20, 2021 by Bruce Banner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: Lol, such anger. It's just a poll to see what the opinion on this forum is and so far it's firmly in favour of your opinion so you want it shut down while the going's good. Now can we please now get back on topic and discuss the subject rather than the existence of the thread. You are the one who's angry and resentful Bruce, and with reason: you blew your vote. I'm not asking for this thread to be shut down, keep embarassing yourself as long as you like. Edited January 20, 2021 by Deckard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Deckard said: You are the one who's angry and resentful Bruce, and with reason: you blew your vote. I'm not asking for this thread to be shut down, keep embarassing yourself as long as you like. As I said, had the referendum been won by one or two votes I may have been angry and resentful, but it wasn't, so I'm not. Although I would like to see us back in the EU as soon as possible. Now can we please stop the ad hominem comments and get back on topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Deckard said: Yeah, I can see that. 🤣 😂🤣 Why the wind up? You won get over it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Deckard said: It's what the EU would do, dude. No it isn't since the EU has never run a single referendum. Why must brexiters always lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, scottbeard said: Only - by the sounds of it - because you couldn't get to the polling station! I think there was definitely some complacency amongst EU supporters, who either didn't vote at all, or believed that they could vote Leave as a protest knowing that Remain would safely win anyway. Either way, the UK voted to Leave and has left. It is ridiculously early to try and judge Brexit's success or failure at this point - I don't buy the "now we know it's a disaster we should re-run it". I was about 70/30 for staying in so voted Remain, but now we've left it would be ridiculous not to give being out a fair run. I voted remain and now I want the UK to rejoin but only once we have cleared the air. If we rejoined early enough it would just lead to the same bitter resentful europhobes who tormented everyone with their incessant 40 year campaign of lies. Time for them to show us what we can do outside the EU. They won't, because they're like all similar politicians in the past, all they have is negative emotive fears of outsiders to win arguments, nothing positive to deliver. Therefore the same people who thought life was so bad in the EU are still going to be thinking life is so bad outside the EU in 10 years time. I wonder if they'll learn anything? Probably not. But by then most young voters won't care about them and will want to rejoin. Edited January 20, 2021 by dugsbody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I am quite amazed by the amount of Pro EU people in this country , especially the politicians and their PR people. If you cast your mind back pre 2015 GE when Cameron promised a vote on EU membership before the Vote was on the table the EU got the Blame for everything. Do you remember moaning about something and the answer always was " well it is the EU.s fault/policy's/blame ect. " I never recall anyone saying something like " well that is a good thing and the reason for that is we are in the wonderful EU or give credit to the EU for that ect " When it suited them the EU was the scapegoat for everything that was wrong and a very convenient place to lay blame. Then all of a sudden so many Politicians and their people were telling us what a wonderful organisation the EU was and how much it benefited us. Problem is True News Fake News whatever if you keep telling people something some of it will sink in , you reap what you sow and those who used it as the whipping boy and then tried to sell it as something great should blame themselves for the Brexit outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandOfConfusion Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 17/01/2021 at 14:15, dugsbody said: Actually, "the EU" (by which you mean the 27 nations) have been very good to the UK. They took a mechanical approach to brexit, set their guidelines that the UK would be treated exactly how they wished to be treated, as a country outside the EU. We got a better deal than any country outside the EU has. What on earth are you complaining about since you got exactly what you wanted? I actually said (and as you kindly quoted) "the EU has been pretty nasty post-Brexit". And by that I mean things like for example the treatment of banking: Quote This is Money understands that European banks appear to be flying in the face of EU payment rules designed to limit the cost of sending money overseas, despite them still applying to the UK. [source] And then there's the numerous reports of EU customs dragging their feet on fresh imports, despite the paperwork being correct. Can you show me other 3rd countries being treated the same way by the EU? Also I was quite happy with falling back to a pre-masstrict treaty position (EEA + have rights to vote on EU trade related matters that affect us) but that wasn't on the table. All that the EU was willing to offer were vague promises to not force us into a closer union, even though in many cases that process had already gone too far. So I voted against federalisation and in the case of Boris, for the least-worse option. But I assume by your reply that you'd be OK with Corbyn and/or being part of a federal EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micawber Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, dugsbody said: europhobes EUphobes - not Europhobes. Not sure how many times I have to correct this deliberate error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobodyInParticular Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: I actually said (and as you kindly quoted) "the EU has been pretty nasty post-Brexit". And by that I mean things like for example the treatment of banking: [source] And then there's the numerous reports of EU customs dragging their feet on fresh imports, despite the paperwork being correct. Can you show me other 3rd countries being treated the same way by the EU? Also I was quite happy with falling back to a pre-masstrict treaty position (EEA + have rights to vote on EU trade related matters that affect us) but that wasn't on the table. All that the EU was willing to offer were vague promises to not force us into a closer union, even though in many cases that process had already gone too far. So I voted against federalisation and in the case of Boris, for the least-worse option. But I assume by your reply that you'd be OK with Corbyn and/or being part of a federal EU? The EU hasn't been nasty. The UK asked to be treated as a third country outside the SM and CU, and the EU indicated what this means and implemented it. Given that it is allowing some additional transitional arrangements it's being the opposite of nasty and is being more accommodating than it needs to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobodyInParticular Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: I actually said (and as you kindly quoted) "the EU has been pretty nasty post-Brexit". And by that I mean things like for example the treatment of banking: [source] And then there's the numerous reports of EU customs dragging their feet on fresh imports, despite the paperwork being correct. There is no 'EU customs'. There is just customs run by individual countries to some common standards. Each of those has staff capable of error, or there may be imperfect guidance. Sometimes the stories of nasty 'EU' customs turn out to be fake news. 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: Can you show me other 3rd countries being treated the same way by the EU? No, few are treated as well. 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: Also I was quite happy with falling back to a pre-masstrict treaty position (EEA + have rights to vote on EU trade related matters that affect us) but that wasn't on the table. No, the UK voted for that not to be an option long ago. 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: All that the EU was willing to offer were vague promises to not force us into a closer union, even though in many cases that process had already gone too far. The UK voted for that. 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: So I voted against federalisation and in the case of Boris, for the least-worse option. But I assume by your reply that you'd be OK with Corbyn and/or being part of a federal EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: Also I was quite happy with falling back to a pre-masstrict treaty position (EEA + have rights to vote on EU trade related matters that affect us) but that wasn't on the table. That's pretty much what we had before Brexit. A permanent opt-out from the Euro and a full voice in the decisions of the EU, will full protection of our access to the single market. If that's what you wanted, then you should have voted Remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandOfConfusion Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said: The EU hasn't been nasty. The UK asked to be treated as a third country outside the SM and CU, and the EU indicated what this means and implemented it. Given that it is allowing some additional transitional arrangements it's being the opposite of nasty and is being more accommodating than it needs to be. Might I suggest the part where they are apparently ignoring banking rules because...? 1 minute ago, NobodyInParticular said: There is no 'EU customs'. There is just customs run by individual countries to some common standards. Treaty of Rome, or to put it another way, for the purposes of imports there is one single market and one single border. 3 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said: No, few are treated as well. Few others are treated "as well"? 😳 4 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said: No, the UK voted for that not to be an option long ago. We had a vote (referendum, not a 'wave though parliament' rubber stamping exercise) on the Masstrict treaty? When? 6 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said: The UK voted for that. No we didn't. Either the referendum was about leaving the EU as a whole or this pile of "Vote Leave" and vote remain fliers are telling porkies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmax2020 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 9 hours ago, micawber said: Ah. The republic of my bedroom? It was a UK wide poll. We don't get to divide the results for our convenience. Well here is the result of that poll incase you’ve forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandOfConfusion Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, thecrashingisles said: That's pretty much what we had before Brexit. A permanent opt-out from the Euro and a full voice in the decisions of the EU, will full protection of our access to the single market. I have no problem with this, it's the meddling in internal matters which I didn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobodyInParticular Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, LandOfConfusion said: Might I suggest the part where they are apparently ignoring banking rules because...? Which bit? 1 minute ago, LandOfConfusion said: Treaty of Rome, or to put it another way, for the purposes of imports there is one single market and one single border. Which mentions ever closer union. 1 minute ago, LandOfConfusion said: Few others are treated "as well"? 😳 Yes, the UK is being treated pretty well, better than the default. It may not seem fair to you, but it's how bring a third country works. It was pointed out well in advance this is what it would be like. And it's still much better than WTO terms. 1 minute ago, LandOfConfusion said: We had a vote (referendum, not a 'wave though parliament' rubber stamping exercise) on the Masstrict treaty? When? The UK government voted in the Council of Ministers. We have a parliamentary democracy. 1 minute ago, LandOfConfusion said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, LandOfConfusion said: I have no problem with this, it's the meddling in internal matters which I didn't like. Like what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobodyInParticular Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: I actually said (and as you kindly quoted) "the EU has been pretty nasty post-Brexit". And by that I mean things like for example the treatment of banking: [source] So the complaint is the EU is beng nasty by applying the rules for third countries? That's a bit weak. 2 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlegend123 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Brexit is the best. Remoaners get over it you are boring. No more EU flag - horrid. No more free movement of people, now you can all get houses reduced demand. you must all be happy about that being on this website! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micawber Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said: Well here is the result of that poll incase you’ve forgotten. Sigh! There are far more people in the yellow bit at the bottom of the island! We don't run our democracy within our bedroom. We accumulate across the whole island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmax2020 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, micawber said: Sigh! There are far more people in the yellow bit at the bottom of the island! We don't run our democracy within our bedroom. We accumulate across the whole island. We’re talking about an entire nation with its own devolved government voting for an outcome they stood no chance of securing. Which came very shortly after a campaign to quash independence that was founded on the notion that remaining in the UK was the only way to guarantee Scotland’s place in Europe. It stands to reason that with any vote you’ll have regions and indeed large swathes of voters that don’t get the outcome they desired - but you seem very reluctant to acknowledge that an entire country voting contrary to another has any significance. Particularly when the outcome is as catastrophic as brexit. People up here are pretty tired of being controlled by westminister. It’s reflected in the poles and only a matter of time before Scotland becomes independent. The media paint it as a hatred for the English but it’s just about having full control over our own affairs. Brexit was just another nail in the unions coffin, as was Boris’ handling of covid and his selective offering of furlough depending on how his beloved London was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlegend123 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Pmax2020 said: We’re talking about an entire nation with its own devolved government voting for an outcome they stood no chance of securing. Which came very shortly after a campaign to quash independence that was founded on the notion that remaining in the UK was the only way to guarantee Scotland’s place in Europe. It stands to reason that with any vote you’ll have regions and indeed large swathes of voters that don’t get the outcome they desired - but you seem very reluctant to acknowledge that an entire country voting contrary to another has any significance. Particularly when the outcome is as catastrophic as brexit. People up here are pretty tired of being controlled by westminister. It’s reflected in the poles and only a matter of time before Scotland becomes independent. The media paint it as a hatred for the English but it’s just about having full control over our own affairs. Brexit was just another nail in the unions coffin, as was Boris’ handling of covid and his selective offering of furlough depending on how his beloved London was doing. Scotland will always belong to the UK.... England funds Scotland everybody knows that. More people live in London than Scotland....Scotland benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmax2020 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: Scotland will always belong to the UK.... England funds Scotland everybody knows that. More people live in London than Scotland....Scotland benefits. If that were true then why do successive UK governments fight tirelessly to keep Scotland in the UK? We get far less back than we pay in and the rest of the UK benefits enormously from what our natural resources and exports. I always thought they would let us leave once the oil ran out but we keep finding more. We need to get smart about that and pretend there is none left!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micawber Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said: We’re talking about an entire nation with its own devolved government voting for an outcome they stood no chance of securing. Which came very shortly after a campaign to quash independence that was founded on the notion that remaining in the UK was the only way to guarantee Scotland’s place in Europe. It stands to reason that with any vote you’ll have regions and indeed large swathes of voters that don’t get the outcome they desired - but you seem very reluctant to acknowledge that an entire country voting contrary to another has any significance. Particularly when the outcome is as catastrophic as brexit. People up here are pretty tired of being controlled by westminister. It’s reflected in the poles and only a matter of time before Scotland becomes independent. The media paint it as a hatred for the English but it’s just about having full control over our own affairs. Brexit was just another nail in the unions coffin, as was Boris’ handling of covid and his selective offering of furlough depending on how his beloved London was doing. Not a nation or a country. Just a region with some additional devolution beyond local councils - a mistake in my view. I do not believe that Scotland would allow Shetland an alternative to independence if they voted against it so why would the UK entertain one region doing something different when it comes to this referendum. Plenty of Scots voted to stay in the UK AND voted to leave the EU. Do their voices not count? If you're tired at being controlled by Westminster (really?) then wait until you become a very insignificant nation in the EU and have to erect a border with your largest trading partner. The media don't portray it as hatred for the English. That's just a narrative whipped up by populist nationals. I know that only around 10% of Scots hate the English. The rest are quite fine people. And most of those are sane as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlegend123 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, Pmax2020 said: If that were true then why do successive UK governments fight tirelessly to keep Scotland in the UK? We get far less back than we pay in and the rest of the UK benefits enormously from what our natural resources and exports. I always thought they would let us leave once the oil ran out but we keep finding more. We need to get smart about that and pretend there is none left!! Your resources are the UK Ltd resources. I am sure you get more than you pay in........based on the formula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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