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Should the UK seek to re-join the EU?


Should the UK seek to re-join the EU?  

106 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK seek to re-join the EU?

    • Yes, we should have a referendum on re-joining - Let the people decide with the benefit of hindsight.
    • No, we had a referendum in 2016 and that's that.


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23 minutes ago, A17 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but does Switzerland have the huge lifestyle disparity like the UK? It has lots of high income jobs as described, but not everybody can work in them.

If you look at the stats it is not that different from the UK. However, in part this is because the large number of very wealthy distort the figures. Take then out of the equation and it looks a lot more equal. When I worked there, 20 odd yrs ago the lack of visibly poor people was a striking difference between it and the UK.  

The fact it still has a genuine National Insurance scheme probably helps. My sister was made redundant from her bank job in Geneva during the financial crisis and on top of her redundancy pay received £7,000 per month tax free (the max at the time) unemployment pay for 18 months until she found a new job. In the UK she would have got about £50 a week. 

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Unemployment benefit is paid in the form of daily allowances five times a week, calculated in general on the basis of your last salary:

In principle:

80 % of average pay over the last 6 months, up to a maximum salary of CHF 12,350 (EUR 11,521) each month

In case there are no maintenance obligations towards children under 25 years of age, or if the unemployment benefit exceeds the minimum amount (CHF 140, EUR 131) or in case of no partial invalidity:

70 % of average pay over the last 6 months, up to a maximum salary of CHF 12,350 (EUR 11,521) each month

 

The number of unemployment benefits paid within a period of 2 years is limited as follows:

If you are under 25 years old with no maintenance obligations towards children:

200 daily allowances

  • if you have made contributions for a period of 12 months in total:

260 daily allowances

  • if you have made contributions for a period of 18 months in total:

400 daily allowances

From the age of 55, if you can demonstrate a period of at least 22 months of contributions:

520 daily allowances

If you receive a partial invalidity pension and can demonstrate a period of at least 22 months of contributions:

520 daily allowances

If you are exempt from conditions relating to the contributions period (due to training, illness, accident, maternity or imprisonment):

90 daily allowances

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I've voted no but the caveat being that this is for the immediate term only and that if the majority want a new referendum then we should do what the majority want.

I'm in favour of continuing down the path we're on for a while and let us attempt to learn our true place in the world. I think it would be better for that place to be part of the EU but people will only learn that through experience, debating does not work on issues like this.

 

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3 hours ago, LandOfConfusion said:

I suspect we'll get a worse deal as the EU has been pretty nasty post-Brexit and there is absolutely no reason to think they won't continue to be if we come begging back.

Actually, "the EU" (by which you mean the 27 nations) have been very good to the UK. They took a mechanical approach to brexit, set their guidelines that the UK would be treated exactly how they wished to be treated, as a country outside the EU. We got a better deal than any country outside the EU has. What on earth are you complaining about since you got exactly what you wanted?

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2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

...Westminster activity goes against public opinion for many years without seeking direct consultation.

I think it would be clearer if the word 'direct' was dropped.  My take is that the people who are upset with Government don't seem to be demanding direct consultation... so much as basic respect and consideration.

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3 hours ago, longgone said:

Buy a freezer🤣

Teething issues

LMAO after four years of wailing rubbish about fishing and sunny uplands the gov says ‘we’re working on it’ and ‘fish are happier being British’ and er....buy a fridge :)

Mind you what on earth were the fishermen thinking ?

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3 hours ago, longgone said:

Buy a freezer🤣

Teething issues

Yeah but, the whole point is to have fresh fish and shellfish......alive lobsters and langoustines..... in less than 24 hours......none of that frozen stuff......can buy that anywhere.;)

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4 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

A cynic might argue that they waited hoping public opinion would shift before asking the question, as the UK has almost certainly been more in favour of Brexit in the past than it is now.

Yes, if the referendum had been held now then it almost certainly would not have been a leave result. That's why legally binding referenda have a higher bar (even in the UK that's a majority and 40% of the electorate for the change) and it's been a mess trying to honour an advisory referendum with no clear type of Brexit specified and so complex for a democratic country.

 

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19 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Yes, if the referendum had been held now then it almost certainly would not have been a leave result. That's why legally binding referenda have a higher bar (even in the UK that's a majority and 40% of the electorate for the change) and it's been a mess trying to honour an advisory referendum with no clear type of Brexit specified and so complex for a democratic country.

 

Oh dear. Referendum. European elections 2019. GE 2019. I guess you want best of 7 now.

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1 hour ago, winkie said:

Yeah but, the whole point is to have fresh fish and shellfish......alive lobsters and langoustines..... in less than 24 hours......none of that frozen stuff......can buy that anywhere.;)

I sometimes try to think about who you are. What is the inspiration for your thinking? Your evasion of conflict, or controversy, and yet a subversive undercurrent. Intriguing, enigmatic, evasive, and a touch annoying at times. Are you the Budhha?

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9 minutes ago, HovelinHove said:

I sometimes try to think about who you are. What is the inspiration for your thinking? Your evasion of conflict, or controversy, and yet a subversive undercurrent. Intriguing, enigmatic, evasive, and a touch annoying at times. Are you the Budhha?

Nope. Just someone who can't string two sentences together.

 

(Teasing)

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5 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Actually, "the EU" (by which you mean the 27 nations) have been very good to the UK. They took a mechanical approach to brexit, set their guidelines that the UK would be treated exactly how they wished to be treated, as a country outside the EU. We got a better deal than any country outside the EU has. What on earth are you complaining about since you got exactly what you wanted?

haven't you realised yet, they will never blame themselves. When Brexit turns out to be a massive disaster, it will be because the EU were being nasty.

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1 minute ago, andrewwk said:

haven't you realised yet, they will never blame themselves. When Brexit turns out to be a massive disaster, it will be because the EU were being nasty.

Oh, that started a while ago, very predictable. Those type of people will always find someone to blame, no helping them.

Nevertheless, the UK needs to find a way to rid ourselves of this exceptionalism and nostalgic look-back to something that never really existed. I think new voters or people who weren't really engaged will learn something.

 

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2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Oh, that started a while ago, very predictable. Those type of people will always find someone to blame, no helping them.

Nevertheless, the UK needs to find a way to rid ourselves of this exceptionalism and nostalgic look-back to something that never really existed. I think new voters or people who weren't really engaged will learn something.

 

that, or a few decades of absolute economic decline

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2 hours ago, Martin_JD said:

True.  OR we could see the inverse if sterling improves, we shall see.

Indeed.  It was meant to be a disaster that we didn’t join the Euro.  Never heard anyone, or any party, suggesting since then that we revisit that decision.

As for Brexit, we will see as well....

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14 hours ago, winkie said:

Yeah but, the whole point is to have fresh fish and shellfish......alive lobsters and langoustines..... in less than 24 hours......none of that frozen stuff......can buy that anywhere.;)

Nay bother for the Scots, Hamish the trawler man will leave some free Crabsticks and fish fingers with the lobsters and langoustines to sweeten the deal.

 

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The Euro is a strong and stable currency. That’s what the markets think. Then you have the articles on the Economist, Mail etc. but at the end of the day the currency is actively traded on global markets and I’d say it does what it’s been designed for. Of course it’s a currency that serves better the needs of those european companies involved in international trading and doesn’t fit the needs of those lacking behind. But we could make the same point for every currency. As an advocate of free-markets I also think the common market is a great achievement for those 27 countries. At the same time, Brexiters were right pointing out it was also a protectionist market. But that’s true for the US and China as well. I think the UK should rejoin the common market and maybe the common currency if, and only if the European Union sets the standards a global force for trading and free markets and if the euro become a reserve currency and something on which global trading is built upon with London as a major hub. 
In order to do that, you need a strong political capital to expand and I am not sure a deal amongst european nations can be reached on this point. 
 

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Furthermore, I’d be interesting trying to understand what went wrong with the EU. At some point someone should start answering these questions. I have always thought that, if you exclude London, the rest on England cannot dream of global gradeurs anymore but for people in the North and the West, the future must be is some sort of regional integration with the Scandinavian markets and the Benelux. Those Uk regions, like some of the Med and Eastern European, just miss the human capital to go all-in globally. Quite frankly, it doesn’t make any sense for a UK car maker to launch the challenge on the German car industry. It’s simply a waste of time and resources. Same thing with the food industry. However, regional niches could be reached and that’s a nice spot to be. There’s even no point focusin on the “English speaking world”. Those markets are already dominated by American, Chinese and European companies. Nobody is going to buy a Nissan from Sunderland in Toronto, Canada. 

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14 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

I sometimes try to think about who you are. What is the inspiration for your thinking? Your evasion of conflict, or controversy, and yet a subversive undercurrent. Intriguing, enigmatic, evasive, and a touch annoying at times. Are you the Budhha?

Thanks for the compliments, we learn more about ourselves from others everyday.;)

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On 16/01/2021 at 15:36, Martin_JD said:

I'm generally not in favour of any more plebiscites, as the public have been shown to make poor, ill conceived decisions on complex issues.  For many people, Brexit turned into a religious argument, logic and good will went out of the window.  

Oh, the irony!

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15 hours ago, Martin_JD said:

True.  OR we could see the inverse if sterling improves, we shall see.

We all cant live on London washing money, which they have been very good a,t so it is believed.  We need more than hairdressers , nail bars. coffee shops etc to survive.

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