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“Property market nears crisis as number of collapsed sales soars”


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The *best* the rampers will get is an announcement by govt that SD holiday will be extended for those a certain way into the process, but that would have to be announced pretty quickly to avoid the 'damage' of buyers getting cold feet and pulling out. Budget on 3rd of March is far too late. All indications are there's a close to zero chance of an extension proper as the government's broke and would struggle to raise vat, income tax or NI due to manifesto commitment.

Edited by PropertyMania
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Feel the desperation:

 

 

 

I urge anyone who is on twitter to tell these people what they think of this.

 

What a bunch of total and utter ****s.

The housing bubble is near collapse, the slightest shock now will send it into a tail spin.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Feel the desperation:

 

 

 

I urge anyone who is on twitter to tell these people what they think of this.

 

What a bunch of total and utter ****s.

The housing bubble is near collapse, the slightest shock now will send it into a tail spin.

 

 

I would have thought that closing down the whole housing market (to include this time sales in  the process of completing which were allowed last time ) will not only see the SD holiday extended but yet more pent up demand when the market reopens with an extended SD holiday. 
From what I understand (which isn't much) it's not like the government wouldn't have been happy to extend the SD holiday it would have just looked bad, but the market shutting down would be a perfect way to get around extending the SD holiday . Whatever, I can see this bouncing the market yet again when England finally steps out of lockdown. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/uk-lockdown-tighten-days-curbs-23308820

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I'm a little unsure here though ...

If we want more affordable house prices ...

Then agree we don't want government to artificially prop them up and "keep the plates spinning" forever.

But .. thinking longer-term ...

Is stamp duty itself something of an artificial prop?

It does arguably discourage down-sizing and discourage moving to another area for work - would there be more supply and hence lower prices without it?

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2 minutes ago, KieranE said:

I'm a little unsure here though ...

If we want more affordable house prices ...

Then agree we don't want government to artificially prop them up and "keep the plates spinning" forever.

But .. thinking longer-term ...

Is stamp duty itself something of an artificial prop?

It does arguably discourage down-sizing and discourage moving to another area for work - would there be more supply and hence lower prices without it?

Yeah stamp duty is a terrible tax. But an annual property tax would never float politically, sadly.

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3 minutes ago, KieranE said:

I'm a little unsure here though ...

If we want more affordable house prices ...

Then agree we don't want government to artificially prop them up and "keep the plates spinning" forever.

But .. thinking longer-term ...

Is stamp duty itself something of an artificial prop?

It does arguably discourage down-sizing and discourage moving to another area for work - would there be more supply and hence lower prices without it?

Don't forget that SDLT discourages BTL investment as removing it would make it easier for landlords to put their properties in limited companies.

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31 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Feel the desperation:

 

 

 

I urge anyone who is on twitter to tell these people what they think of this.

 

What a bunch of total and utter ****s.

The housing bubble is near collapse, the slightest shock now will send it into a tail spin.

 

 

"chaos from engulfing the property market and derailing Britain's post-Covid recovery"

So unaffordable high house prices is good for the economy - how??

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Just now, Si1 said:

"chaos from engulfing the property market and derailing Britain's post-Covid recovery"

So unaffordable high house prices is good for the economy - how??

They just keep going up and up. We need a few banks to crash

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11 minutes ago, KieranE said:

I'm a little unsure here though ...

If we want more affordable house prices ...

Then agree we don't want government to artificially prop them up and "keep the plates spinning" forever.

But .. thinking longer-term ...

Is stamp duty itself something of an artificial prop?

It does arguably discourage down-sizing and discourage moving to another area for work - would there be more supply and hence lower prices without it?

It's more a psychological barrier/marketing tool

It means EAs will try and push the lowest price houses towards £500K so people cna save 3% :lol:

They know what they're doing.  

 

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1 hour ago, Locke said:

No surprise that you are ok with suggesting war as a solution, given that you are unlikely to be drafted in.

Ha - possibly not although I don't know whether age would be relevant with the kind of war we would have!

 

But honestly, I don't wish there was a war. I'm just annoyed with high house prices and rich people bleating!

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49 minutes ago, Si1 said:

"chaos from engulfing the property market and derailing Britain's post-Covid recovery"

So unaffordable high house prices is good for the economy - how??

Typical nonsense isn't it!? They just sense that, because SD has been removed, it's a situation that can be jumped on to get rid permanently. A hunter spotting weak prey in a herd.

It's a bit like the reverse of people concerned about freedoms not being reinstated once Covid is over (which I do have some sympathy with)

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1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Feel the desperation:

 

 

 

I urge anyone who is on twitter to tell these people what they think of this.

 

What a bunch of total and utter ****s.

The housing bubble is near collapse, the slightest shock now will send it into a tail spin.

 

 

Not sure if there is a counter-petition anywhere? BRING BACK SD!

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1 hour ago, spacedin said:

Don't forget that SDLT discourages BTL investment as removing it would make it easier for landlords to put their properties in limited companies.

Could be removed for primary residences only? Leave the extra charge for second homes. 
 

Only caveat is I would be interested whether there have been any ‘work arounds’ used by LLs and if so they would need blocking. 😉

Edited by Pop321
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Let us assume that everyone who misses the deadline then fails to complete - which of course they won't, I reckon most people who have sunk in money would simply pay the average £2k bill.

What would be the effect on the economy really? It would be quite minimal considering that the government are printing the 'prosperity' lost every month. Would there be chaos? I doubt it, although like the cladding thing they can cherry pick some people and pretend its representative of other people where in reality it is more benign, a case of a few thousand quid. There are probably just as many people 'stuck' in modern places in London because the 2021 value is less than the 2017 one and they can't afford to take the hit. But if you can afford the mortgage, life goes on as normal.

There is a petition going around saying to extend it by 6 months - there simply would be another mass pile-up of deals in 6 months time, with another call to extend it by 6 months again.

But the people voting for it don't really care about that, they would have gotten their discount by then, so sod everyone else.

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5 minutes ago, moonriver said:

😃

if there was, I bet it would be an HPC'er starting it.

Just looked at the data from the current petition to keep it removed (70+k signatures now)

 

Some interesting information: someone from British Virgin Islands, someone from Bermuda, Loads from Hong Kong (117), UAE, Uzbekistan. 2 in Tuvalu!?

 

Not surprisingly, the weathier the area, the more signatures (1325 in North East, 15126 in London, 16290 in South East)

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19 minutes ago, Trump Invective said:

Typical nonsense isn't it!? They just sense that, because SD has been removed, it's a situation that can be jumped on to get rid permanently. A hunter spotting weak prey in a herd.

It's a bit like the reverse of people concerned about freedoms not being reinstated once Covid is over (which I do have some sympathy with)

Tbh I've no problem with SD being removed but the tax burden will need to be placed somewhere else instead

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1 hour ago, KieranE said:

I'm a little unsure here though ...

If we want more affordable house prices ...

Then agree we don't want government to artificially prop them up and "keep the plates spinning" forever.

But .. thinking longer-term ...

Is stamp duty itself something of an artificial prop?

It does arguably discourage down-sizing and discourage moving to another area for work - would there be more supply and hence lower prices without it?

It is

For all its issues Commercial has business rates which increase its velocity and brings prices down to a level where someone who can pay the rates has the property.

Compare this to say countries where they dont have business rates where its not uncommon for retail units to be simply left empty in great locations so that the owners dont have the hassle of someone forming a fond de commerce/leasehold and having rights and a cartel can control rents etc.    

Like it or not and use the "old widow" excuse but the efficient use of resources is that the person using them generates either the most business, most efficiency or most tax from that asset/resource.
 

13 minutes ago, Freki said:

SD needs to go, transaction taxes on assets that are meant to be held, need to go. A yearly property tax is what we need.

You cannot ******** a huge house in the USA as x million will be xxx thousand property taxes.

Also the fact that is lost to folk is they actually believe that their 3 bed terrace in meh London would be taxed at say 1/2% of 1 million +.

it would not be as in all homes you have a tranche of value that is speculation which would evaporate toute suite once the cost of carry reflects the value.

A start would be to implement this regime on second homes, foreign owned homes and moving holiday homes to actual business rates. 

 

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2 hours ago, Trump Invective said:

Not sure if there is a counter-petition anywhere? BRING BACK SD!

It's counter intuitive, so no one would sign it.

One of Tele propertys subsequent posts on twitter is along the lines of Chancellor is digging his heals in but we'll see.

What a bunch of carrots.

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21 hours ago, Trump Invective said:

Given that the great housebuilding era was post war, I'm beginning to actually believe myself! There needs to be radical change so that people do some REAL soul searching as to what makes us happy

As if we're ever going to get a leader to enact some of that stuff, oh, wait a minute.

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How about putting the tax on the seller - it can come out of their capital gain.

Or maybe flex the rates, increasing the value when duty starts and increasing it above the starting value.

Also get far more aggresive with CGT and taxation of rental income.

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