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"U.K. Urged to Levy $350 Billion Wealth Tax to Fund Pandemic"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-09/u-k-urged-to-levy-350-billion-wealth-tax-to-pay-for-pandemic

Tax renamed as "levy".

Actually, out and out theft, renamed as levy.

I don't see Sunak taxing himself but a lot of asset rice/cash people millionaires should be very very very worried.

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14 minutes ago, Locke said:

What would you do if you woke up in 1930's Germany?

If I woke up in 1930s Germany, I'd head to Britain and try to buy one of the nice new big suburban houses that were being built at the time.

Of course, that's not what most people actually did.  They probably didn't appreciate the long-term value of a red-brick semi within commuting distance of a city with a modest garden and space for a washing line.

As far as I can tell, at the time, the demographic to which you likely alluded had started to daydream about ethnic superiority and imagining goose-stepping in kinky fettish gear. They marvelled at having established a new peek level of achievement for civilization... confident in their own superiority - having avoided losing eveything (like the leveraged proletarian scum) in the crash of 29.

Obviously, if you're asking what I, personally, would do... Easy: I'd be out scouting for places I could get the Delorian up to 88mph.

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There is so much 'hidden' wealth in UK territories that a one off tax would bring enough in to reduce, if not clear, the national debt itself.

The idea of these 'territories' being independent of Westminster is laughable. Send a frigate and a dozen Royal Marines to convince them.

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12 minutes ago, msi said:

There is so much 'hidden' wealth in UK territories that a one off tax would bring enough in to reduce, if not clear, the national debt itself.

The idea of these 'territories' being independent of Westminster is laughable. Send a frigate and a dozen Royal Marines to convince them.

In what form is that wealth?

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1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

"U.K. Urged to Levy $350 Billion Wealth Tax to Fund Pandemic"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-09/u-k-urged-to-levy-350-billion-wealth-tax-to-pay-for-pandemic

Tax renamed as "levy".

Actually, out and out theft, renamed as levy.

I don't see Sunak taxing himself but a lot of asset rice/cash people millionaires should be very very very worried.

Why? If you have £5M in assets paying £50,000 pa for five years is hardly a life changing disaster.

People with that much wealth do understand that they are hugely better off than having much less & paying no tax,

right?

Putting a charge on properties will deal with the nut jobs with multi million houses & no savings or pension.  There's far fewer of those than the media would have you believe.  Most of our clients in the £2M+ range have less than 50% in property. Their I/Ms ensure risk diversification.

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52 minutes ago, Locke said:

In what form is that wealth?

I think he is talking about off-shore asset holdings (in tax havens) with opaque/uncertain identification of beneficial owners.

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2 hours ago, Locke said:

What would you do if you woke up in 1930's Germany?

Think, ****, it's decades to FANNG stocks, Tesla and Bitcoin.  Buy gold, then lots of cheap property. And leave a note in my will of when to buy Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Google Tesla and Bitcoin. 

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2 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

"U.K. Urged to Levy $350 Billion Wealth Tax to Fund Pandemic"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-09/u-k-urged-to-levy-350-billion-wealth-tax-to-pay-for-pandemic

Tax renamed as "levy".

Actually, out and out theft, renamed as levy.

I don't see Sunak taxing himself but a lot of asset rice/cash people millionaires should be very very very worried.

Hmmmm. Just a modest $90k Bitcoin gives me £500k in Crypto wealth.  Sooooo glad it is not in any Gov bank or ledger, it is forever "offshore". 

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1 hour ago, hotblack42 said:

Why? If you have £5M in assets paying £50,000 pa for five years is hardly a life changing disaster.

 

There are 1000s in London sat with a basic pension in a £1M house.  £10K bill pa will destroy them

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4 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

There are 1000s in London sat with a basic pension in a £1M house.  £10K bill pa will destroy them

No.  Put a charge on the property & extract the tax on sale.  Indexed for inflation.

The equity that now is now nationalised can be borrowed against so it can effectively release money immediately.  Its equity withdrawal to repay government debt instead of a new car or cruise or whatever.

I didn't say they'd like it.  Just that it was doable.

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2 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

There are 1000s in London sat with a basic pension in a £1M house.  £10K bill pa will destroy them

Maybe they should get a lodger or two and make use of the tax free rent-a-room scheme?

I mean if they don't they will be completely destroyed.

Edited by spacedin
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5 hours ago, markyh said:

Think, ****, it's decades to FANNG stocks, Tesla and Bitcoin.  Buy gold, then lots of cheap property. And leave a note in my will of when to buy Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Google Tesla and Bitcoin. 

 More importantly, when to sell them ;)

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6 hours ago, reddog said:

Take a loan out to buy some hard assets

And then watch them be blown to pieces, or be de facto confiscated, within a decade?

I think you're confusing the 30's for the 20's?  The Weimar hyperinflation, which I assume is what you were thinking off, was in the early 20's and not the 30's.

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2 hours ago, anonguest said:

And then watch them be blown to pieces, or be de facto confiscated, within a decade?

I think you're confusing the 30's for the 20's?  The Weimar hyperinflation, which I assume is what you were thinking off, was in the early 20's and not the 30's.

But the German currency was also destroyed in 1945, obviously the assets would be portable or hide-able like gold.

 

If you had bought gold in 1930 with a loan, buried it, then in 1946, assuming you hadn't died you would be able to pick it up and be in a good position relative to the rest of the population (obviously this is from the perspective of someone that knows the ending)

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3 hours ago, anonguest said:

And then watch them be blown to pieces, or be de facto confiscated, within a decade?

I think you're confusing the 30's for the 20's?  The Weimar hyperinflation, which I assume is what you were thinking off, was in the early 20's and not the 30's.

I picked the 30s, because of the advancing authoritarianism, economic doldrums, an invisible enemy, the money printing and final collapse of the currency.

Infographic: Support for a UK national lockdown | Statista

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Just now, reddog said:

But the German currency was also destroyed in 1945, obviously the assets would be portable or hide-able like gold.

 

If you had bought gold in 1930 with a loan, buried it, then in 1946, assuming you hadn't died you would be able to pick it up and be in a good position relative to the rest of the population (obviously this is from the perspective of someone that knows the ending)

So you would have spent the entirety of the 1930's paying a loan on an asset you could not make use of and which.....

(a) post-1945 (IF, as you say, you survived the war and it wasn't found/confiscated/etc) you would not have been able to readily convert to spendable cash since there were by then tight controls on the private purchase/possession of gold, and

(b) if you were able to exchange it for cash you would have only got $35 per ounce, compared with only near $30 per once you would have paid for it in 1930.  Hardly a great return.

BUT....I accept that gold has valuable uses in hard times, such as the immediate post war era, and could have bought your way out of misery, albeit via 'black market' transactions, anywhere in the world, given its international acceptability.

Edited by anonguest
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14 hours ago, A.steve said:

I think he is talking about off-shore asset holdings (in tax havens) with opaque/uncertain identification of beneficial owners.

I know he is. These assets are not Scrooge McDuck vaults of cash though. You can't just confiscate them lol.

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Just now, Locke said:

I know he is. These assets are not Scrooge McDuck vaults of cash though. You can't just confiscate them lol.

A good description of how the average Joe in the street, when talking/thinking about the offshore wealthy etc, always seems to have this mental image of thewealth being stored in this way - and so being readily accessible/confiscatable.

I blame Hollywood, with all those scenes in movies of villains/mega-wealthy types/etc always having huge pallets of cash in vault, etc. ripe for the taking.

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29 minutes ago, anonguest said:

A good description of how the average Joe in the street, when talking/thinking about the offshore wealthy etc, always seems to have this mental image of thewealth being stored in this way - and so being readily accessible/confiscatable.

I blame Hollywood, with all those scenes in movies of villains/mega-wealthy types/etc always having huge pallets of cash in vault, etc. ripe for the taking.

Oh c'mon.  I've worked in finance for 35 years including 1 year offshore.  Of course the money isn't in pots of bullion, jewellery and notes, but it is easily found.  All wealth management firms now offer online tools to view, and optionally manage, client funds.
They could very easily provide read access to any government with a legitimate reason, and expose the use of shell companies and other wrappers to reveal the ultimate beneficial owners.

Actually why not start removing a levy without even bothering to locate the ultimate beneficial owners?  They'll either immediately go running to their mate in Whitehall, Westminster, Capitol Hill (who should just say "you had a good run suck it up").  Or throw stuff around the room impotently as the proceeds of crime are siphoned from them.
The money isn't hard to find, there's no appetite in the establishment to find it.

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I can't help noticing that the general tone on this thread is hostility to a wealth tax / levy.  A lot of reasons why it won't work.  Little effort to find a workable and equitable approach.

The money has to be found somehow and surely this could be a strong contributor.

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