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Scale of cladding crisis revealed to be three times larger as 4.6 million properties are unsaleable


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And just think if we had an apartment renting culture instead of ludicrous leasehold contracts then the incentive wouldn't have been there to build sh1t apartment blocks and pass the costs on...

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I smell ******** on this. 

Obviously people stuck will want to exaggerate as much as it can so the government might come in and help.

I would wager most of the 4.6m are simply EWS related with nothing to pay - they aren't technically worthless as some lenders will lend against it.

Of the rest I would think most of them are facing only modest repair bills of single digit thousands.

The number of people facing the truly massive bills I think are a small percentage whos stories will be disproportionately told.

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I smell ******** on this. 

Obviously people stuck will want to exaggerate as much as it can so the government might come in and help.

I would wager most of the 4.6m are simply EWS related with nothing to pay - they aren't technically worthless as some lenders will lend against it.

Of the rest I would think most of them are facing only modest repair bills of single digit thousands.

The number of people facing the truly massive bills I think are a small percentage whos stories will be disproportionately told.

Except property losses must be socialised.

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Posted (edited)
 

I am old enough to remember when property wasnt a one way bet...I actually didnt enjoy being a home owner and this reminds me of why I enjoy renting.

anecdotally..

I have a friend who works in Canary Wharf, he went to buy lunch a few weeks ago, and when he was there he realised they only had two customers, him an a Indian guy, the Indian guy was a retired Indian Airforce officer in a suit an a tie, so they stuck up a conversation as the only two humans about, his story he had an inheritance from his dad £150k, and he had used an UK based indian bank to borrow £200K so purchasing a property for £350K he has a charge against his house in India, now his rental income  has stopped and he cannot sell, he said he is having wife problems as he has lost £150K and will also lose his house in india.

He no longer has a tenant so no rental

The indian says he no longer has any money and has come to sell his flat as he has to pay out per month

£1200 mortgage

£ 400 fire watch

£180 CT

£200 insurance 

He purchased for £350K and intended to sell for £550K, not sure what logic was used to work this out

and he has no income coming, he asked my friend if he was mad spending £2.20 on a coffee

also 8 of his peer group is in the same position, monkey see monkey do

He had to borrow and beg to get the money to come to the UK, as he needs to sell a flat with cladding

...and wants to know how it can be valued at ZERO, his life is over

Edited by shlomo
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anecdotally..

I have a friend who works in Canary Wharf, he went to buy lunch a few weeks ago, and when he was there he realised they only had two customers, him an a Indian guy, the Indian guy was a retired Indian Airforce officer in a suit an a tie, so they stuck up a conversation as the only two humans about, his story he had an inheritance from his dad £150k, and he had used an UK based indian bank to borrow £200K so purchasing a property for £350K he has a charge against his house in India, now his rental income  has stopped and he cannot sell, he said he is having wife problems as he has lost £150K and will also lose his house in india.

He no longer has a tenant so no rental

The indian says he no longer has any money and has come to sell his flat as he has to pay out per month

£1200 mortgage

£ 400 fire watch

£180 CT

£200 insurance 

He purchased for £350K and intended to sell for £550K, not sure what logic was used to work this out

and he has no income coming, he asked my friend if he was mad spending £2.20 on a coffee

also 8 of his peer group is in the same position, monkey see monkey do

He had to borrow and beg to get the money to come to the UK, as he needs to sell a flat with cladding

...and wants to know how it can be valued at ZERO, his life is over

See my recent posts about recent sold prices in Canary Wharf (e14) on page 60 of the thread below....it aint pretty!

 

 

 

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See my recent posts about recent sold prices in Canary Wharf (e14) on page 60 of the thread below....it aint pretty!

Gosh there is some big losses to be seen there.

I wonder how many bought those places, expecting to make big money on them?

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Gosh there is some big losses to be seen there.

I wonder how many bought those places, expecting to make big money on them?

A lot of Chinese buyers from HK, Malaysia, Singapore and after brexit lots of Indians purchased flats, nearly all in London, the Chinese buyers were spreading their assets and an income.

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No doubt there are lots of overseas amateurs seduced by previous growth figures.

If its one of the new build places though you probably still could get out, seen a few on sale to cash buyers. The newer ones are unlikely to be facing the huge charges, so some other landlord may take a punt on things going back to how they were.

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No doubt there are lots of overseas amateurs seduced by previous growth figures.

If its one of the new build places though you probably still could get out, seen a few on sale to cash buyers. The newer ones are unlikely to be facing the huge charges, so some other landlord may take a punt on things going back to how they were.

If you want evidence that shows the contrary and you are on Facebook go to:

UK Cladding Action Group UKCAG 

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anecdotally..

I have a friend who works in Canary Wharf, he went to buy lunch a few weeks ago, and when he was there he realised they only had two customers, him an a Indian guy, the Indian guy was a retired Indian Airforce officer in a suit an a tie, so they stuck up a conversation as the only two humans about, his story he had an inheritance from his dad £150k, and he had used an UK based indian bank to borrow £200K so purchasing a property for £350K he has a charge against his house in India, now his rental income  has stopped and he cannot sell, he said he is having wife problems as he has lost £150K and will also lose his house in india.

He no longer has a tenant so no rental

The indian says he no longer has any money and has come to sell his flat as he has to pay out per month

£1200 mortgage

£ 400 fire watch

£180 CT

£200 insurance 

He purchased for £350K and intended to sell for £550K, not sure what logic was used to work this out

and he has no income coming, he asked my friend if he was mad spending £2.20 on a coffee

also 8 of his peer group is in the same position, monkey see monkey do

He had to borrow and beg to get the money to come to the UK, as he needs to sell a flat with cladding

...and wants to know how it can be valued at ZERO, his life is over

This is a very bad situation for thousands of people not just in Canary Wharf but across London. Everywhere you go there is block after block of new build ( supposedly Luxury apartments ) not sure what qualifies to get the Luxury tag. 

However the worst part is while people like this guy are now facing financial ruination there are plenty of others still being led by the hand to buy these apartments new on the Government Help to Sell , sorry Help to Buy schemes. 

I have a friend who sells for a developer out in the Royal Docks a few miles from Canary Wharf the development she is on is at the end of the Royal Docks past Beckton. Yet they are selling like hot cakes under Help to Buy. Being in the industry she speaks to sales staff from other developments near hers to gauge the market and everyone is having a field day. 

At one end of the Tunnel the screwed like the man you mention are coming out destroyed while at the other end of the Tunnel there are plenty of people still joining the madness who think they are going to make money.  

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If you want evidence that shows the contrary and you are on Facebook go to:

UK Cladding Action Group UKCAG 

One thing that seems to be entirely lacking from this debate is any rational assessment of the risk. 

If you read the Grenfell report you will see the huge catalogue of design/implementation/maintenance  issues and fire handling errors that led to the disaster.  Even then without a stay in your flat policy there was more than enough time to evacuate the building. 

I would guess that the risk of being harmed by fire in a modern high rise flat, with or without, cladding is less than in a standard terraced house. Should we have waking watches for each row of terraces.

In the meantime if anyone has a +£2m, but now worthless, flat with a nice view over the Thames they need to get rid of I will give you a few hundred £k for it, to help with your move. 

  

 

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the Indian guy was a retired Indian Airforce officer in a suit an a tie, so they stuck up a conversation as the only two humans about, his story he had an inheritance from his dad £150k, and he had used an UK based indian bank to borrow £200K so purchasing a property for £350K he has a charge against his house in India,

So, like my ex RAF officer friend he likely has a modest pension relatively young, good management and leadership skills and a strong track record of delivery, punctuality etc.

Did my friend:

a) borrow against his home and try to flip an expensive flat to try to make a big, quick, unearned gain

b) start a part time job running a large GP partnership

I'll give you a clue. It wasn't a)

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So, like my ex RAF officer friend he likely has a modest pension relatively young, good management and leadership skills and a strong track record of delivery, punctuality etc.

Did my friend:

a) borrow against his home and try to flip an expensive flat to try to make a big, quick, unearned gain

b) start a part time job running a large GP partnership

I'll give you a clue. It wasn't a)

Common sense wins in the end.

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Gosh there is some big losses to be seen there.

I wonder how many bought those places, expecting to make big money on them?

Why don't they just rename the action group to "the govt money bailout group please"

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https://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/business/peoples-lives-are-being-ruined-unsafe-cladding-problem-eastbourne-3089863

 

“Trying to pass the costs onto leaseholders is a scandal, while the building developers still make billions in profit leaving this mess behind them.

 

“I would like the government to firstly acknowledge what a stressful situation they are putting millions of people in.”

 

“Many can’t pay and will be forced to declare bankruptcy, the buildings will still not be fixed and the effect on the housing market will continue for many years to come.”

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On 05/01/2021 at 13:55, shlomo said:

He purchased for £350K and intended to sell for £550K, not sure what logic was used to work this out

Probably using the famed Fergus Wilson "properties double every seven years" logic: he'd need just over four and a half years.

(I don't necessarily subscribe to this.)

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Don't worry the Hong Kong Chinese are coming selling their studio flats for £900k to The Chinese Communists who want to kick them out as they do not like any form of complaint of the new Hong Kong.

Do you think they will have heard of the cladding scandal and do you think unscrupulous estate agents will tell them about it?

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Maybe could look into it further, but is this expensive and potential to be life threatening widespread problem to do with regulation, lack of regulation or enforcement of regulation?.......look to other countries, look to Europe do they have similar products put around their high rise living accommodation and blocks?.......products that help with keeping in the warmth but highly inflammable?;)

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1 hour ago, winkie said:

Maybe could look into it further, but is this expensive and potential to be life threatening widespread problem to do with regulation, lack of regulation or enforcement of regulation?.......look to other countries, look to Europe do they have similar products put around their high rise living accommodation and blocks?.......products that help with keeping in the warmth but highly inflammable?;)

I think the the only way to get rich is buy a property, an you have to buy in London, and you live in it as well, no one ever looked at the cladding issue and the fact prices can go down, well they have not gone down they have literally crashed.

If this website was called www.claddingflatpricecrash.co.uk it would be more accurate

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3 minutes ago, shlomo said:

I think the the only way to get rich is buy a property, an you have to buy in London, and you live in it as well, no one ever looked at the cladding issue and the fact prices can go down, well they have not gone down they have literally crashed.

If this website was called www.claddingflatpricecrash.co.uk it would be more accurate

Not to do with getting rich......to do with putting something unsafe on a building that could be a threat to life, doing it on the cheap? and paying large amounts of money to remove it and pay companies to protect residents having to live inside.....how much can be made out of a flat built anywhere?...... don't even have to own it.;)

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20 minutes ago, winkie said:

Not to do with getting rich......to do with putting something unsafe on a building that could be a threat to life, doing it on the cheap? and paying large amounts of money to remove it and pay companies to protect residents having to live inside.....how much can be made out of a flat built anywhere?...... don't even have to own it.;)

Trawling facebook as I do i have noticed lots of EE women with British husbands who seem to be caught out with this problem

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