UK government 'has underestimated takeup for Hong Kong resettlement scheme'

[Si1]

 

 

It's true there is lots of land not yet built on.  But that does not mean it is not being used for something.   It's not useless land just because it doesn't have housing or roads on it.

There's a term for that, called ecosystem services. That is a given countryside ecosystem, if we get rid of it, could actually cost us on terms of money and environmental damage, more than it was worth to get rid of. A great example is that the water supply from rivers and borehole extraction in rural areas needs less treatment than from urban areas, running into £millions and more.

 

Another thing, the airlines also need land to plant trees in order to justify their carbon emissions.  Solar panels output depends on the area covered.  Everything needs land, and the more we go carbon neutral the more land area we need.

Yeah, environmental economists are all over this. It's basically their job. But it's valid to raise it.

[kzb]

 

Exactly. Oh cheap plumbers from EU? Yeah no probs I don’t compete with them and my metropolitan lifestyle is enhanced when their wives clean my house (sarcasm, I don’t have a cleaner). 

600,000 is a hell of a lot of fluent English-speaking professionals to dump on an already fragile economy. 

Actually, 600,000 is about 18 months to two years of "normal" immigration.

Since all the EUers are going home due to Brexit and no more will be coming, surely the Hongkongers will simply fill the hole in our normal net immigration figure.

I will say though, it would be disappointing if they simply rammed them all into London as per usual.

[Si1]

 

Actually, 600,000 is about 18 months to two years of "normal" immigration.

Since all the EUers are going home due to Brexit and no more will be coming, surely the Hongkongers will simply fill the hole in our normal net immigration figure.

I will say though, it would be disappointing if they simply rammed them all into London as per usual.

I think it's expected that they'll gravitate to any existing significant Chinese immigrant areas. So Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, London etc

[Riedquat]

 

Wtaf

That looks like a line that's essentially still in its original Victorian state but with a modern train on it. Modern approaches to building anything tend to have more of an impact. That said the direct impact of HS2 won't really be that much, but any piece of large-scale modern infrastructure makes its presence felt for quite some distance. An area with some slow local trains trundling through it is rather different than a more modernised one with regular express services, even when you're not using the train. Just about look and feel, but look and feel are very, very much more important than those who are unable to see more to life than mere practicality (and for what end?) are able to see.

[Riedquat]

 

We have lots of beautiful countryside and we would still have plenty after a massive building program.  It's not an issue for me more an issue for those in certain communities who are NIMBY's  

No, for people who care about it and quality of life overall. You only have to compare with France (approximately the same population and twice the area) to see why, just how much difference it makes. Whether or not that matters to you, if you're not bothered about any of it, that's up to you, but you do need to recognise that you're not definitively right and that even current levels, let alone more, are very real and noticeable and negative to a lot of people, rather than just bleating on about "NIMBYs" whenever you want to take a dump on somewhere.

[Si1]

 

That looks like a line that's essentially still in its original Victorian state but with a modern train on it.

Hands up, that's true.

But the broader point is that high speed lines area a narrow corridor and pretty quiet (the latter being an advantage of modern electric trains and continuous welded rails)

 

That said the direct impact of HS2 won't really be that much,

Yes

 

 

but any piece of large-scale modern infrastructure makes its presence felt for quite some distance.

You'd have to explain that to me some more??

 

 

 

An area with some slow local trains trundling through it is rather different than a more modernised one with regular express services, even when you're not using the train. 

Well subsidise them yourself then, seriously.

[Riedquat]

 

You'd have to explain that to me some more??

 

If you simply cannot grasp that the sort of world you're happy living in isn't the same for everyone, that the things that don't bother you might some other people, and have to ask why every time then there's little point in saying anything. Being able to understand where others are coming from, even if you don't remotely agree, is a basic essential. And asking for an explanation suggests we're not going to get to that point, because this really is at the level of saying "You'll have to explain why you don't like this music" because you don't have a problem with it and simply cannot see why anyone would. You really don't see how such things affect our perception of the area we're in? (whether positively, negatively, or merely different - I certainly don't expect everyone to have the same perception).

 

Well subsidise them yourself then, seriously.

I said it's different, nothing more.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Riedquat

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

 

Yes. You see I'm a mixed bag. I do not fit into the two party paradigm your average Brit has been indoctrinated into at school/Uni.

I will say stuff you agree with and some you disagree with (sometimes vehemently!) 

 

Funny that you fit into Trumpys bag.

[Si1]

 

 

If you simply cannot grasp that the sort of world you're happy living in isn't the same for everyone, that the things that don't bother you might some other people, and have to ask why every time then there's little point in saying anything.

If you say so. But I think you're in a minority with your preferences.

 

I said it's different, nothing more.

Ok, holding my hands up, my bad on that one.

[Riedquat]

 

If you say so. But I think you're in a minority with your preferences.

Perhaps. And society should go with what satisfies the majority (preferably without "100% for you and zero for you" if possible, which isn't always the case). But that won't stop me looking at the majority in a pretty dim light, and saying so, just as we all look at the majority who cheer on house price inflation in a dim light.

The frequency at which some resort to name-calling (look upthread at posts with "NIMBY") suggests to me quite strongly that many people are unwilling to accept that they really are hurting people with their actions. They'd rather just dismiss them and keep their conscience clear than accept there are some negative consequences to what they want. And yes, you can accuse me of doing the same I suppose, since I'm quick enough to call them shallow, banal, and unappreciative of life.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Riedquat

[Si1]

 

Perhaps. And society should go with what satisfies the majority (preferably without "100% for you and zero for you" if possible, which isn't always the case). But that won't stop me looking at the majority in a pretty dim light, and saying so,

Fair enough

 

 

 

just as we all look at the majority who cheer on house price inflation in a dim light.

I'm not sure there is a majority, just that most influential significant minority and vested interests

 

The frequency at which some resort to name-calling (look upthread at posts with "NIMBY") suggests to me quite strongly that many people are unwilling to accept that they really are hurting people with their actions. They'd rather just dismiss them and keep their conscience clear than accept there are some negative consequences to what they want. And yes, you can accuse me of doing the same I suppose, since I'm quick enough to call them shallow, banal, and unappreciative of life.

Ok fair play. Development certainly needs sensitivity and empathy.

[thirdwave]

 

Is it a future we should wish for, though? My local area in Staffordshire is disappearing under wave after wave of huge housing developments (the like of which didn't seem to happen to such an extent when I lived in the SE, maybe its different recently).

We need to keep the population down and protect what countryside we have left.  I'm not anti-immgration, but I am very much against massive net immigration. 

This is the 'right sort of immigration' this country badly needs.Continued sterling weakness associated with no deal Brexit next month would likely see an acceleration in the emigration of recent low skilled EE arrivals (this has been happening since 2018) so there will be plenty of room to take this new lot in.

[Postman]

If I was dictator of UK I would Compulsary purchase 25% of all farmland used for grazing livestock, and split it equally between new housing, reforestation and sustainable crop production. 

Vast swathes of our countryside is being used so inefficiently. 

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

 

If I was dictator of UK I would Compulsary purchase 25% of all farmland used for grazing livestock, and split it equally between new housing, reforestation and sustainable crop production. 

Vast swathes of our countryside is being used so inefficiently. 

Just need to put in roads, drainage/sewerage, electrical transmission lines, mobile phone masts and internet.

Then build a lovely new housing estate.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Lord D'arcy Pew

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

I'm sure that if people living here illegally were encouraged to relocate, then we could fit the Hong Kongers in.

[Si1]

 

Just need to put in roads, drainage/sewerage, electrical transmission lines, mobile phone masts and internet.

Then build a lovely new housing estate.

Straw man dude

[nightowl]

 

Yes. You see I'm a mixed bag. I do not fit into the two party paradigm your average Brit has been indoctrinated into at school/Uni.

Many people interested in current affairs don't either, but idiologically driven folk find it easier to argue with you if they 'transfer' you into a recognised camp they think is opposite them.

Anyway.... If there is loads of unwanted office blocks now in cities with everyone WFH they could be converted into hi rise housing and the HK folk will feel familiar with.😏

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

 

Straw man dude

Yes, the location would be perfect for a scarecrow.

 

[shlomo]

 

The article says that 3/4 have degrees and professional jobs. TBH we have globalist leaders who are intent on growing the population by migration, every party you can vote for will implement this. May as well be educated english speakers who are keen on democracy. It is either that or illiterate religious zealots.

 

This was exactly the same argument to let in Million of Eastern Europeans, how did that end.

Edited December 12, 2020 by shlomo

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

Deleted.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Lord D'arcy Pew
Deleted

[NobodyInParticular]

 

If they come in those sorts of numbers in that timeframe there is going to be huge backlash.

It will interesting to see how the liberal middle class types who never had to compete with the flood of manual workers from the EU start to view immigration when the immigrants are very highly trained/skilled and start coming directly for their roles and force wages down.

There were lots of people coming over from Europe to do middle class jobs too. The last three NHS consultants I saw, for example. Just not from Germany or France, obviously. 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

Not a bad idea.

We could also infill the channel, and build a 10 mile wide canal slicing across the UK at about the level of Watford Gap.

Well we can't catch all the fish in the North Sea so drain our half of it and recreate Doggerland? Do a secret deal with the Netherlands to drain their bit too plus a bit extra for the skills? It would really annoy the French, although accidentally also the Norwegians. Suggested town names including Farageville, Nether Mogg and Royston Vasey for the British bit. For the Dutch side presumably Van der Valk (in the new province of Valk) and Den Haaaaaag. 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

Hands up, that's true.

But the broader point is that high speed lines area a narrow corridor and pretty quiet (the latter being an advantage of modern electric trains and continuous welded rails)

Yes

You'd have to explain that to me some more??

Well subsidise them yourself then, seriously.

North Western Europe does trains do much better. Last time I went to a Germany I did have to change at Lille (20 minutes) but it was just as fast and much more pleasant going via Eurostar and ICE than flying. 

[debtlessmanc]

 

There were lots of people coming over from Europe to do middle class jobs too. The last three NHS consultants I saw, for example. Just not from Germany or France, obviously. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC381172/

from the article

"More than 2000 German doctors are registered to work in the United Kingdom, despite nearly 5000 vacancies in Germany."

"A report in Clinical Medicine says that German doctors are attracted by a range of factors, including systematic postgraduate training, better working conditions and pay, and opportunities for professional development."

there are 322,000 German citizens in the UK and about 90,000 uk citizens live in Germany.

[shlomo]

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC381172/

from the article

"More than 2000 German doctors are registered to work in the United Kingdom, despite nearly 5000 vacancies in Germany."

"A report in Clinical Medicine says that German doctors are attracted by a range of factors, including systematic postgraduate training, better working conditions and pay, and opportunities for professional development."

there are 322,000 German citizens in the UK and about 90,000 uk citizens live in Germany.

On the flip side, i went to a company on Friday most/all of the people working in the transport department were Brazilian with Portuguese links, without them our economy could not function would you say our economy is better than the Brazilian economy or we do not have home grown workers for certain reasons.