Should Foreign Aid be cut...

[shlomo]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/27/slashing-overseas-aid-reflects-badly-on-britain

Rishi Sunak has said he could not tell the country he was giving 0.7% of gross national income to foreign aid (Foreign Office minister resigns as Sunak cuts aid budget, 25 November). What kind of country does he think he lives in? Can he and the rest of the government not see that so many of the problems in the world come from the gross divide between countries like ours and ones where so many face starvation?

Has he not noticed that during the first lockdown, 10 million people volunteered to help people in their community? Did he not notice the thousands who volunteered to trial the vaccine? These are not people who would wish to ignore the rest of the world.

 

 

[onlooker]

 

 These are not people who would wish to ignore the rest of the world.

 

 

Nobody wishes to ignore the rest of the World. However, Ethiopia, for whom LiveAid was created, is still as dirt poor and as corrupt as before. Some of the LiveAid funds raised were corruptly diverted, and some of the funds were used to buy arms, and enabled Ethiopia, its various constituent states, and Eritrea to wage war among themselves. Are people any better off?

Meanwhile, Africans continue to leave Africa, seeking to displace Europeans from jobs and homes.

How can all this be policed, to ensure a better outcome for all?

[A17]

What does a country need to grow economically? Some or all of the following. 

• A population who are incentivized to work. Not one where the fruits of your work will be confiscated.
• A government that is willing to allow other groups within the country gain wealth and/or power.
• Some form of security for investors. Granted, no form of investment is risk free, but without the risk of being arbitrarily confiscated by the government or destroyed in a war.
• An absence of religious and ethnic conflict.
• Joined up infrastructure: factories/resource production linked to roads and railways, in turn linked to seaports and airports.

Ongoing aid (from the western countries at least) tends to concentrate on solving secondary problems, such as education, access to water and women's rights. All good causes, but they fail to address the key holdbacks to economic growth.

[shlomo]

 

and women's rights. 

I do believe in the media explanation of women’s rights, men are not anti women, we all had mothers and most of us loved our mothers more than we loved our fathers, I am not sure where this comes from it is as if the media wants to start a man v woman conflict 

[This time]

 

I do believe in the media explanation of women’s rights, men are not anti women, we all had mothers and most of us loved our mothers more than we loved our fathers, I am not sure where this comes from it is as if the media wants to start a man v woman conflict 

If this planet is to have a future then we need to improve the lot of women worldwide as that will bring down the birth rate.

[shlomo]

 

If this planet is to have a future then we need to improve the lot of women worldwide as that will bring down the birth rate.

In my entire life i have not met a single man who was anti-woman, i have met bad people who hate men as much as women.

This is just to create conflict.

[A17]

By women's rights I mean things such as access to contraception and equality of education help to bring down the birth rate, but don't address the major causes of lack of economic growth.

[shlomo]

 

By women's rights I mean things such as access to contraception and equality of education help to bring down the birth rate, but don't address the major causes of lack of economic growth.

This seems to be more a village issue when the population moves to town and cities the people stop having children they prefer conspicuous consumption.

[Sprite]

In this current climate, foreign aid was always going to be the low hanging fruit that HMG could cut back on. Itll be interesting what happens to fuel duty, VAT and income tax because these will inevitably have to rise at some point in the future.

[shlomo]

 

In this current climate, foreign aid was always going to be the low hanging fruit that HMG could cut back on. Itll be interesting what happens to fuel duty, VAT and income tax because these will inevitably have to rise at some point in the future.

https://economynext.com/sri-lanka-expects-china-us700mn-loan-in-december-2020-76367/

Sri Lanka is expecting a 700 million dollar equivalent loan from China Development Bank in December 2020, the Finance Ministry said. 

[24gray24]

Just look up the richest people in ethiopia. 

That tells you exactly what the problem is. 

That and our government bombing countries flat so we can steal their raw materials. 

Why on earth would we want to pay money to corrupt countries that steal from their own people to the point of starvation?

Or to pay for our government  to buy arms and start wars, and then pay again to alleviate the consequences of our own government's criminality? 

How about: 1. hang Tony Blair.  And 2. tell those Ethiopian billionaires that if they starve their own people, we'll hang them too. 

[onlooker]

 

https://economynext.com/sri-lanka-expects-china-us700mn-loan-in-december-2020-76367/

Sri Lanka is expecting a 700 million dollar equivalent loan from China Development Bank in December 2020, the Finance Ministry said. 

A loan is not aid. It is well known that this is the way China gets small African and Asian countries to support its policies, and vote in the UN accordingly. I read somewhere that Sri Lanka already owes a lot to the Chinese. Can't remember the details now, but there is a big Chinese built industrial facility there which is barely used, and only makes sense as part of Chinese foreign policy.

[A17]

 

A loan is not aid. It is well known that this is the way China gets small African and Asian countries to support its policies, and vote in the UN accordingly. I read somewhere that Sri Lanka already owes a lot to the Chinese. Can't remember the details now, but there is a big Chinese built industrial facility there which is barely used, and only makes sense as part of Chinese foreign policy.

Exactly. It is a form of uninclusive growth. China funds the factories, the railways and the ports to allow the production and shipping of what it requires, which add some benefit to the general population. But predominantly, it just enriches those at the top in the smaller African and Asian economies.

[shlomo]

 

A loan is not aid. It is well known that this is the way China gets small African and Asian countries to support its policies, and vote in the UN accordingly. I read somewhere that Sri Lanka already owes a lot to the Chinese. Can't remember the details now, but there is a big Chinese built industrial facility there which is barely used, and only makes sense as part of Chinese foreign policy.

In a nutshell, the US Government officials met the Sri Lankan Government officials about 3 weeks ago and told them the same thing, But the SL Government wants economic development not words.

[shlomo]

 

Exactly. It is a form of uninclusive growth. China funds the factories, the railways and the ports to allow the production and shipping of what it requires, which add some benefit to the general population. But predominantly, it just enriches those at the top in the smaller African and Asian economies.

What would you say about the Singapore economic model

----------------------------

Singapore
Gdp and National debt

29-11-2020 20:11:08

$557 266 721 165	GDP(PPP) year to date
$89 408	GDP per capita year to date (annual $99 509)
$1 403 962 260	GDP today
$225	GDP per capita today
$656 332 563 239	Total National Debt (Public Debt Clock)
$105 302	Total National Debt per capita
$22 989 496 959	National Debt year to date
$1.01653	National Debt today

[onlooker]

 

 But the SL Government wants economic development not words.

 

What the aid or loan recipients want are bribes and/or military hardware.

[shlomo]

 

What the aid or loan recipients want are bribes and/or military hardware.

I think you are wrong on both counts, SL is not known for taking bribes, and they have just ended a civil war so want economic growth.

[A17]

 

What would you say about the Singapore economic model

----------------------------

Singapore
Gdp and National debt

29-11-2020 20:11:08

$557 266 721 165	GDP(PPP) year to date
$89 408	GDP per capita year to date (annual $99 509)
$1 403 962 260	GDP today
$225	GDP per capita today
$656 332 563 239	Total National Debt (Public Debt Clock)
$105 302	Total National Debt per capita
$22 989 496 959	National Debt year to date
$1.01653	National Debt today

I can barely read those numbers.

Singapore has:

• A robust legal system
• Respect for property rights
• A government that is happy for anybody to get rich, not just its own members and cronies 
• A lack of natural resources, giving no short term easy but limited routes to growth
• A relative lack of corruption

Edited November 29, 2020 by A17

[PeanutButter]

Should Tory Crony Aid Be Cut?

[shlomo]

 

I can barely read those numbers.

Singapore has:

• A robust legal system
• A government that is happy for anybody to get rich, not just its own members and cronies 
• A lack of natural resources, giving no short term easy but limited routes to growth

In 2019, the national debt of Singapore amounted to around US $417.81 billion U.S. dollars.

The Debt of Sri Lanka is US $56B

[A17]

 

In 2019, the national debt of Singapore amounted to around US $417.81 billion U.S. dollars.

The Debt of Sri Lanka is US $56B

As a percentage of GDP - Singapore = 110%, Sri Lanka = 76%, so not as great a difference as above.

Consider the difference for what each country have to show for it?

[24gray24]

 

In 2019, the national debt of Singapore amounted to around US $417.81 billion U.S. dollars.

The Debt of Sri Lanka is US $56B

How many hours work each is that? 

56 b might be a lifetimes slavery and 417b might be a months work in those countries for all we know. 

[onlooker]

 

I think you are wrong on both counts, SL is not known for taking bribes, and they have just ended a civil war so want economic growth.

There is a whole chapter on Rajapaksa's corruption in his Wikipedia entry. His brother is the President. Convenient eh?

I don't know how they financed the war against the Tamils - it was relentless, cruel, and largely hidden from foreign prying eyes.

[captainb]

 

I think you are wrong on both counts, SL is not known for taking bribes, and they have just ended a civil war so want economic growth.

Lol don't be so niaeve. 

Having seen China coals read Chinese states behaviour in Pakistan and others in Eastern Africa very limited economic growth will come from these loans. What will happen is the terms of the loan cannot be met though the investment they make, which leads to a breaking of the loan covenent which gives control to the Chinese entity of the asset... 

That's the game. 

[shlomo]

 

Lol don't be so niaeve. 

Having seen China coals read Chinese states behaviour in Pakistan and others in Eastern Africa very limited economic growth will come from these loans. What will happen is the terms of the loan cannot be met though the investment they make, which leads to a breaking of the loan covenent which gives control to the Chinese entity of the asset... 

That's the game. 

I think the Chinese game is to make China the Centre of the world.

Middle Kingdom

 

Middle Kingdom or Middle Country, Mandarin Zhongguo, Chinese name for China. It dates from c.1000 BC, when it designated the Chou empire situated on the North China Plain. The Chou people, unaware of high civilizations in the West, believed their empire occupied the middle of the earth, surrounded by barbarians. Since 1949, when the Communists took power, the official name for China has been Zhonghua renmin gongheguo [middle glorious people's republican country] or, in English, the People's Republic of China.