Recruitment is broken

[richmondtw]

 

I am not willing to share any further as this is not the point. 

Unless you say what your expectations are no one is really able to offer any advice

 

Didn't you know it is payback time ?  Your privilege is built on slavery of other peoples and the wanton pillage of our planet's limited resources.

 

I have never had  slave lol 

I do us a gas and electricity i must confess to that  

 

I see you are only 30, and perhaps you are reaping what you have sown.  Your generation is anyway, even if it doesn't apply to you personally.  Your generation has got what it has campaigned and protested about, above all other causes.   Opportunities have been taken away from straight white males and given to minorities instead, in recompense for past injustices. 

I thought this is what you all wanted?

Agree totally 

[GregBowman]

 

It’s not about me, it’s about the whole system and how it works. It’s the same s**t in IT, software, corporate, finance, energy. 

It really isn't sorry just hired a Network Administrator (future head of IT ) for a privately owned mid sized business £70 million T/O where I am restructuring the IT - I led the process there were  very few credible candidates compared to 20 years ago he has started on £55k + bonus and is 28 - pretty good for his age 

Edited November 25, 2020 by GregBowman

[GregBowman]

 

Frankly, at my age what I love should be building my next 20 years.
Chip on my shoulder my ****. 

? Why who owes you a living ?

[longgone]

Op if you don't already have mental illness you will in IT.

It's a dire hamster wheel of learning and then unemployment if you don't constantly keep skill set retained. Hard if your employer does not use the latest kit.

The only metric anyone needs is how much does a 3 bed house cost in a 10 mile radius of the job if it's more than bank will lend by multiple of your salary the job is worthless and no one should do it.

And that applies to all Industries.

 

 

[shlomo]

 

? Why who owes you a living ?

So true, the world owes us nothing it was here before us

[shlomo]

 

Op if you don't already have mental illness you will in IT.

It's a dire hamster wheel of learning and then unemployment if you don't constantly keep skill set retained. Hard if your employer does not use the latest kit.

The only metric anyone needs is how much does a 3 bed house cost in a 10 mile radius of the job if it's more than bank will lend by multiple of your salary the job is worthless and no one should do it.

And that applies to all Industries.

 

 

Why are you using 3.5 times, should you not look at affordability due to low interest rates

[winkie]

 

[GregBowman]

 

Hard if your employer does not use the latest kit.

 

And that applies to all Industries.

 

 

Be the employer

[kzb]

 

Agree totally

It gets better.  Now, if you argue about money with your wife/partner she can call the police on you.  If you pull a face because she's wasted your money on something, that is Financial Abuse.  Or maybe Controlling Behaviour.

This is the world you have built for yourselves.  Enjoy, it's what you wanted.

[captainb]

 

The problem is, I don't think the rest of think it *is* rotten in general - just unfortunately not a great time to be looking for a new job in the middle of a pandemic and the biggest recession ever recorded.

The way recruitment works in my firm is:
- we put vacancies on the website
- people apply for them
- we interview the best applicants
- we hire the best interviewee

There really isn't anything rotten about it.  Whilst we are mindful of diversity, there are certainly no quotas - and how would we discriminate against heterosexuals even if we wanted to?!  I guess we could stalk your Facebook profile to see which gender you're pictured kissing...but who has time for that?

People wanted to try and help you, by understanding your position.  What you appear to be doing is spitting back in their faces.

Bizarely I was helping out on an integration once following a take over (post doing the fun Corp finance part will never make that mistake again). 

Anyway, was sent a spreadsheet to fill out for the employees to get them onto a FTSE250 company HR system. One of the columns was sexuality, along with race etc. 

Asked the head of HR how do you know... And got back a weird response well some people tell you. Suffice to say I just left the column blank. 

[kzb]

 

The way recruitment works in my firm is:
- we put vacancies on the website
- people apply for them
- we interview the best applicants
- we hire the best interviewee

It's probably illegal.  If it isn't now, it soon will be.

Don't you have targets to have minimum proportions of females/people of colour in higher roles by certain dates?

[scb]

As pointed out, you have to move around. I was in IT (software development) and never once for promotion or a pay rise staying in a job. I had to jump around. One job I asked for a pay rise, it was refused, I left, hates the job I had and quit 8 week later, put my CV online and HR at the company I had left 8 week ago found it, looking for my replacement so I went in, gave a list of demands and for them all, including a 60% pay rise, far more than I had asked for 4 months earlier! Only condition they made was I had to stop being the last person coming into the office in the mornings as it was being “noticed”. That was fine, I went in at 8.50 rather than exactly 9 but I left at 5 and never did any work at home.

 

As pointed out, try and carve a niche (pretty easy as a software dev) while trying your hand at a bit of everything so you can stick it on a CV, just well enough to talk about it in an interview. I can tell off a long list of languages and tech I have used, in reality I’ve used some of them for a few days and know the basics and could never use them in a job without training but I can talk about them in theory in an interview and I know my core languages/tech very well.

Can’t say I’ve ever noticed the quota thing but I might have to make sure it’s known I’m gay in future interviews to make sure I tick a box. Mind you, in my last company of the 10 of us who were employed, at one time we had 5 gay men! All by accident I’m sure, quite impressive really as I don’t think any any other role I’ve had that I’d ever (knowingly) worked with any other gay men in IT!

 

Anyway, I gave it all up to go self employed doing something else because I got fed up of the expectation I would work late, and weekends etc with no extra pay. I now earn half as much but I work about 2 hours a day on average. If I can’t be bothered one day, I just don’t work. I could easily double my pay by working more hours but I’m content with what I have right now. I guess it’s easy for me knowing that my bitcoin will pay for a house outright at the moment so I don’t actually have to worry about the cost of buying a house.

[frankief]

 

Bizarely I was helping out on an integration once following a take over (post doing the fun Corp finance part will never make that mistake again). 

Anyway, was sent a spreadsheet to fill out for the employees to get them onto a FTSE250 company HR system. One of the columns was sexuality, along with race etc. 

Asked the head of HR how do you know... And got back a weird response well some people tell you. Suffice to say I just left the column blank. 

It's more or less ubiquitous now on job applications.

Age/ sex/ race/ nationality/ religion/ disability etc. questionnaire.

Although there is an option to decline to answer these questions.

[Houdini]

 

It's more or less ubiquitous now on job applications.

Age/ sex/ race/ nationality/ religion/ disability etc. questionnaire.

Although there is an option to decline to answer these questions.

And that data should be kept completely separate from the rest of the details. 

[Bob8]

 

I have given up trying to advance my career. I am 30 and I do not understand what I should do to be in a better place. It’s a joke. You have experience however you miss the knowledge, you know, we can’t teach you super busy at the moment. You know your stuffs but you lack some practical experience. You’re a white straight man? Do not even try applying for a big US firm. A manager simply told me right know you gotta know someone or know some9ne who knows someone. 
And those bloody HR people, I wonder what the hell they are paid for. 
I started thinking I’d be on my own. 
F*** this shit.

I recall being thirty. That was fourteen years ago and I was not you, so I will offer my experience. I have no idea how applicable it it.

I applied for jobs and was getting nowhere. I had a PhD and worked in pharma development, had a very modest lifestyle (room in a house, no car or foregin holidays). In those days it was Generation X who were considered feckless and lazy.

I was also a straight white man.

What changed when I was thirty was that I got lucky. I got a job in Denmark, within a few years I had been promoted a couple of times and was no longer considered feckless and lazy, but a prime sought after batchelor and a sadly missed part of the brain drain from the UK.

 

If you are a doer you need to be self employed and negotiate your own salary.

In my experience those being rewarded in large firms are those who are really good at promoting themselves, taking credit for work that isn’t really theirs and moving position often so when things go wrong it doesn’t stick to them. The types that spend all day in meetings but never have any actions as a result from the meeting.

So either play the game or start contracting, otherwise your glory from the hard work just gets stolen by the aforementioned types.

I am sure this advice is well meant, but I am not sure what he can do with it.

If he is working in a distinct trade, there is a chance of this. It was not an option for me at all, beyond side gigs to make ends meet. It also needs some up front cash, which many people are unable to comprehend you might not have.

If you have the option, then great! But, it is not necessarily feasible.

[richmondtw]

 

It gets better.  Now, if you argue about money with your wife/partner she can call the police on you.  If you pull a face because she's wasted your money on something, that is Financial Abuse.  Or maybe Controlling Behaviour.

This is the world you have built for yourselves.  Enjoy, it's what you wanted.

Yes you have to laugh the snowflakes are like a turkey voting for xmas 

 

And that data should be kept completely separate from the rest of the details. 

No - it should not be collected. I do not ask people who work for me what they are into sexually I have less than zero interest in other people's sex lives.

 

Don't you have targets to have minimum proportions of females/people of colour in higher roles by certain dates?

No not so.

For instance if you owned a company in a village in Cornwall or the Highlands in Scotland you would find it hard to find a black or muslim person to employ for instance.  

Personally I employ whoever is best for the job.  I am not going to employ a person who is black, gay, vegetarian, or anything else if they are not as good as someone else I have interviewed who is white and heterosexual.  In my company I have people who are English Asian German Polish and black and aged between 18-72.

I do not ask anyone to fill in a  form about religion sexuality etc and I have zero interest. As we work together things like that come up in conversation if the other person wishes them to do so.  

The only strange issue I have ever had was a guy I interviewed who was good at interview and at the end of the interview said said he was a muslim and would not work with a Jewish person.  

 

[scottbeard]

 

Don't you have targets to have minimum proportions of females/people of colour in higher roles by certain dates?

No.  Although the company has stated that it is "committed to gender equality", which suggests an intention to try and ensure 50% of senior roles are filled by women at some point.  And a few years ago we realised that 7 of the 8 new graduate hires were men, so a process was followed to understand why we were not having more women applying - for example, one of the application process requirements was recording a short video of yourself.  This is more offputting to women than men, etc. 

 

It gets better.  Now, if you argue about money with your wife/partner she can call the police on you.  If you pull a face because she's wasted your money on something, that is Financial Abuse.  Or maybe Controlling Behaviour.

This is the world you have built for yourselves.  Enjoy, it's what you wanted.

(a) You're exaggerating.  (b) It's not 1955 and it never will be again. Sorry.

[kzb]

 

a) You're exaggerating.

Only for now.  Come back in ten years' time.

 

(b) It's not 1955 and it never will be again. Sorry.

I thought you all wanted to grow up as well off as the boomers?

[Freki]

 

Only for now.  Come back in ten years' time.

I thought you all wanted to grow up as well off as the boomers?

Correlation is not causation

[Tapori]

 

It's probably illegal.  If it isn't now, it soon will be.

Don't you have targets to have minimum proportions of females/people of colour in higher roles by certain dates?

There is this at times but rarely in actual positions that matter.

See, the problem with alot of this is that you should speak with people you think are benefitting from such policies or have been demonstrably screwed in the past.

Often, the layers of management will recruit to show diversity but rarely for the top jobs. Just look at the EHRC for the irony of ironies.

What you are seeing is the class system and nepotism/networks in action at a time when good jobs are becoming scarce

Show diversity at certain levels, but only promote incompetent people for your diversity portfolio to keep the rest of the diverse lot content and have  a puppet to control.

The real issue that is pertinent isn't these mythical HR "cultural correctness gone mad" policies; its systemic institutional power corruption on all sectors. You know someone, you blow someone, you havet dirt on someone or you be a puppet "Yes Massa" for someone.

The most racist and corrupt people I have met have paraded there "awareness," openly. It's all a game.

Source: I have now dealt with at least 10 cases in a very large organization where good competent people lost their jobs (Targeted Disciplinaries) or were denied clear promotions in favour of someone thoroughly incompetent.

The incompetents had powerful networks that did alot of maneuvering.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Tapori

[kzb]

 

Source: I have now dealt with at least 10 cases in a very large organization where good competent people lost their jobs (Targeted Disciplinaries) or were denied clear promotions in favour of someone thoroughly incompetent.

The incompetents had powerful networks that did alot of maneuvering.

I've not really seen that myself.  Perhaps I've never been close enough to the top to be aware of it.

What I have seen a lot of is managers being recruited from outside, and our own people cut off from those roles.  I think the higher management believe the BS on these peoples' CV's.  Funnily enough these managers are never much good, but the recruiters never learn.

Going forward companies will need to show their diversity levels in order to win contracts, in the same way they now have to show their health and safety stats.  In fact I bet this is happening already in some sectors.

[scottbeard]

 

I thought you all wanted to grow up as well off as the boomers?

No - that's mathematically impossible.  There isn't enough wealth in the country to do that.

I want the wealth we do have to be shared more fairly across the generations.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

 

There is this at times but rarely in actual positions that matter.

See, the problem with alot of this is that you should speak with people you think are benefitting from such policies or have been demonstrably screwed in the past.

Often, the layers of management will recruit to show diversity but rarely for the top jobs. Just look at the EHRC for the irony of ironies.

What you are seeing is the class system and nepotism/networks in action at a time when good jobs are becoming scarce

Show diversity at certain levels, but only promote incompetent people for your diversity portfolio to keep the rest of the diverse lot content and have  a puppet to control.

The real issue that is pertinent isn't these mythical HR "cultural correctness gone mad" policies; its systemic institutional power corruption on all sectors. You know someone, you blow someone, you havet dirt on someone or you be a puppet "Yes Massa" for someone.

The most racist and corrupt people I have met have paraded there "awareness," openly. It's all a game.

Source: I have now dealt with at least 10 cases in a very large organization where good competent people lost their jobs (Targeted Disciplinaries) or were denied clear promotions in favour of someone thoroughly incompetent.

The incompetents had powerful networks that did alot of maneuvering.

"The incompetents had powerful networks that did alot of maneuvering."

So maybe not so incompetent at the stuff that matters for them ?

I used to work in a small business and there everyone pulled their weight, some good, some bad, but at least everyone tried.

Got taken over by a bigger business and was amazed that there were some people who seemed to do no work, but played politics all day to try and further their own careers. Obviously these people were at first a target for my derision.

Over time though I realised that these people are actually necessary, and an important part of doing business. You actually need to have at least some people who are interested in gaining power and wielding it. After all, the business has got to be run by someone. The greater issue is when these people start to get too numerous and spend all their time fighting for power and fighting with each other and disrupting the day to day operations. Then there is a problem you need to sort out.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

 

I've not really seen that myself.  Perhaps I've never been close enough to the top to be aware of it.

What I have seen a lot of is managers being recruited from outside, and our own people cut off from those roles.  I think the higher management believe the BS on these peoples' CV's.  Funnily enough these managers are never much good, but the recruiters never learn.

Going forward companies will need to show their diversity levels in order to win contracts, in the same way they now have to show their health and safety stats.  In fact I bet this is happening already in some sectors.

If you believe diversity is good, then surely recruiting people from outside increases diversity of thinking. I think any organisation needs a balance of people coming in from outside to bring in fresh ideas and new ways of doing things, as well as ensuring that some good internal people are promoted as well.

[Big Orange]

 

Over time though I realised that these people are actually necessary, and an important part of doing business. You actually need to have at least some people who are interested in gaining power and wielding it. After all, the business has got to be run by someone. The greater issue is when these people start to get too numerous and spend all their time fighting for power and fighting with each other and disrupting the day to day operations. Then there is a problem you need to sort out.

You could argue you could have psychos in the right place and right time doing good for the company, with their ruthless and aggressive streak, but really they're not genuinely justifiable except to themselves.

Most of the time you just get too many inept bullies and sociopaths aggressively freeze out/intimidate/ignore/fire most of the more efficient but honest employees, then they just lie and lie and lie, and finally the corrupted company caves in on itself - Enron is a classic model for that sort of thing.