CGT, no G&T

[Voltron]

Aligning CGT at income tax rates was one of jeremy corbyns plans and he got hammered for it. Quite funny to see alot of the Labour policies now slowly being rolled out by the "Conservative" government 

[msi]

 

Aligning CGT at income tax rates was one of jeremy corbyns plans and he got hammered for it. Quite funny to see alot of the Labour policies now slowly being rolled out by the "Conservative" government 

This Tory Government has spent more and done more Socialism than Corbyn's wet dream.

Mass government subsidies - check

Nationalised businesses - check

Emergency powers to run people's lives - check

 

 

 

[satsuma]

 

Thats fine i dont think an argument is "tired" just because it has always been factually correct.

As for over £85k, that's too high an income for furlough (£30k) or a self employed grant (£50k). Everyone got left out at that pay grade.

 

Brings to a bigger argument going forward as to why / how the tax rises will fall on higher earners to pay for something they didnt receive. 

The 85k is the company income not the director income, your muddled

[captainb]

 

The 85k is the company income not the director income, your muddled

Which if you are a freelancer... what else are you doing with that £85k? aside from paying yourself with it...

If you actually employ people and are in a small business you are into the realms of business support with rate able grants, furlough for your employees, and yourself if needed etc. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by captainb

[Unmoderated]

 

Yes, been expecting that for a while. Probably removing the top rate tax relief and flattening to 20%.

Fortunately for me my pension fund is now big enough to not have to significantly worry about that too much. I need to move into ISAs, so no real change.  I can't touch my pension for 10 years and have over £600k in it. Even a modest 5% annual growth will put me into the 55% pension super tax for breaching the lifetime allowance  - the last 10 years saw my funds triple, if that happens again I'll have a bill of at least £200k on that chunk of money (assuming the lifetime limit rises with inflation).

I'm going for a promo at work and if I get it with the payrise I will max out everything before April and even chuck my slush fund into an instant access cash ISA. Allowances of today will probably look like a golden era for the next few years. 

[luvadealme]

 

Which freelancers? 

Those who missed out are those who haven't yet put in a tax return... As they started recently. 

Inherent problem in including them is anyone could just claim to be one.. And get a grant. Yeah.. Definitely started that photography gig was earning the max furlough just haven't filed yet.. 

I couldn't claim anything, as I only had 1 yrs tax return not 2. Seems a little unfair to me....

[Unmoderated]

 

The 85k is the company income not the director income, your muddled

Payroll is deductible for corp tax including the tax free salary which everyone pays themselves, their wife and their dog! You don't pay yourself a salary out of already taxed income. 

VAT is paid by the customer (the business merely collects it)

Fact is it's very tax efficient to incorporate as a sole trader. Let's not forget the amount of revenue that never touches the books too. 

Then there's even smarter ways of extracting the wealth from the business. 

[satsuma]

 

Payroll is deductible for corp tax including the tax free salary which everyone pays themselves, their wife and their dog! You don't pay yourself a salary out of already taxed income. 

VAT is paid by the customer (the business merely collects it)

Fact is it's very tax efficient to incorporate as a sole trader. Let's not forget the amount of revenue that never touches the books too. 

Then there's even smarter ways of extracting the wealth from the business. 

You can fudge it all you like, the point, again, is that these companies pay a lot of tax for that you realise

[Greater Fool]

So the treasury has a masterplan to claw a few billion extra a year by raising CGT. In the meantime ignoring pandemic support the government ploughs ahead giving pay rises to public sector employees in reward for all being "key workers", and of course the unstoppable tanker of constantly increasing costs of providing unfunded defined benefit pensions, with the civil service now bragging of a generous 27% employer's contribution in its job adverts. So basically the treasury tries to chase the government's wind of every growing largesse, pretty pathetic.

[PeanutButter]

 

So the treasury has a masterplan to claw a few billion extra a year by raising CGT. In the meantime ignoring pandemic support the government ploughs ahead giving pay rises to public sector employees in reward for all being "key workers", and of course the unstoppable tanker of constantly increasing costs of providing unfunded defined benefit pensions, with the civil service now bragging of a generous 27% employer's contribution in its job adverts. So basically the treasury tries to chase the government's wind of every growing largesse, pretty pathetic.

Holy moly I thought you were kidding

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/employers/employer-contribution-rates/

[markyh]

 

 

Then there's even smarter ways of extracting the wealth from the business. 

I always wondered this, can you incorperate 3 businesses you are the owner, main shareholder, and MD of all 3, then have them all trade with each other in a closed loop?  Not sure why i would want this but is there any reason why not? 

[hurlerontheditch]

wasn't there a gov study on This a few years ago that concluded that any rate above 28% causes behavioural changes and hoarding of assets 

[Greater Fool]

 

Holy moly I thought you were kidding

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/employers/employer-contribution-rates/

I never joke about my work, I know where my next job move will be, I expect it will be the same for the NHS etc. 👍

Edited November 12, 2020 by Tiger131

[captainb]

 

I always wondered this, can you incorperate 3 businesses you are the owner, main shareholder, and MD of all 3, then have them all trade with each other in a closed loop?  Not sure why i would want this but is there any reason why not? 

You can and its common, but you would consolidate and it all nets out. So effectively if that's all the "trade" you would have a group with no transactions at all going through it - as all net out on consolidation.

 

That's the legal way.. some use that system to commit VAT fraud. But we are going into illegal practises. 

[markyh]

 

Get yourself Xero £24 a month ramping my third business now in six figures T/O  why pay your accountant for something you can do in 30 mins over a cup of coffee? You don't need much of an accountant  for sub seven figure T/O

My last bill was £1000 that was for all the accounts  and 4 personal tax returns which since we are old buggers with previous businesses are probably more complex than than the company accounts

Biggest mistake small businesses make leave it to the accountant or take advice from a bank - foxes  in the chicken coop 

You also get the use of the money for three months for free 

My accountant , based in scotland, all done by email, charges me a flat rate of £25 per vat quarter submission.  I just give him a detailed excel spreadsheet, or he is happy to have remote access to zero / quickbooks etc. 

I would move to these online accounts systems but i cant for the life of my find one that gives a package for sole traders who are vat registered, with FIFO stock control built in. I dont sell time, i sell goods, and my customers are 90% vat registered , so i need to reclaim vat to be competitive or i am immediately 20% more expensive on the purchasing side. 

[scottbeard]

 

Yes, been expecting that for a while. Probably removing the top rate tax relief and flattening to 20%.

Fortunately for me my pension fund is now big enough to not have to significantly worry about that too much. I need to move into ISAs, so no real change. 

Same.  I have been stuffing my pension in the last few years in anticipation that it will cease to be tax efficient to do so pretty soon.

[Pop321]

 

This Tory Government has spent more and done more Socialism than Corbyn's wet dream.

Mass government subsidies - check

Nationalised businesses - check

Emergency powers to run people's lives - check

 

It’s completely different.😉 

Labour planned such policies to protect the people. 

Tories did it to protect TPTB. 

Oh wait, it’s all the same policy anyway...interesting 😆😆😆

[Unmoderated]

 

You can fudge it all you like, the point, again, is that these companies pay a lot of tax for that you realise

It's not a fudge, it's tax law and accounting standards!

I realise exactly what and how they pay it since - I'm a chartered accountant lol!!

'a lot' of tax? The company I work for pays a lower % of tax than I do as an employee. That's the point. The owners of the business also pay less tax as a %.

If we get into absolute terms, I pay 'a lot' more tax than the vast majority of people in the UK. 

The point is equalisation, the point is removing loopholes, the point is simplification.

The point is someone has got to pay for this fricking circus and it should be born by those that gained the most from the government interventions, restrictions and support for their employees and search for a vaccine. 

[winkie]

 

So the treasury has a masterplan to claw a few billion extra a year by raising CGT. In the meantime ignoring pandemic support the government ploughs ahead giving pay rises to public sector employees in reward for all being "key workers", and of course the unstoppable tanker of constantly increasing costs of providing unfunded defined benefit pensions, with the civil service now bragging of a generous 27% employer's contribution in its job adverts. So basically the treasury tries to chase the government's wind of every growing largesse, pretty pathetic.

Few billion is better than nothing, the argument is always why bother with CGT or whatever will hurt the few with the most, when billions more could be collected taxing this or that thus collecting evermore from the many that always end up paying, the workers, spenders and savers......small government means doing away with having the burden and cost of public sector workers, their pensions and extra inwork benefits......it means paying big corporate companies big money to provide a service they don't always provide with no clawback for incompetence, hiring consultants and agency workers, privatising the countries assets we all over the years have a stake in and paid for......make work pay, make saving pay.....and don't make it so it is no longer worth spending to support the economy with vat sales tax, duty, and now what could be no deal tariffs.

[Unmoderated]

 

I always wondered this, can you incorperate 3 businesses you are the owner, main shareholder, and MD of all 3, then have them all trade with each other in a closed loop?  Not sure why i would want this but is there any reason why not? 

That's not a smart way... but you can, but on consolidation (required) you must set out unrealised profits, that is sales made inside the ground that didn't continue on outside of the group. VW engines ltd might sell an engine to vw assembly limited but VW group can't recognising anything if that car didn't get sold in the accounting period in question. 

Top tip, set up another company, buy your first company with a loan from itself and go from there. You do it right and you get a bit CGT impact year one (set off with entrepreneur's relief) and from then repay the load and it's free of tax since it's a repayment to one's self. 

Best part you can claim Business Asset Disposal Relief (entrepreneurs relief as was)

 

[nickb1]

 

Wealth - any income that is at least one hundred dollars more a year than the income of one's wife's sister's husband.

Funny. However, inequality is now such that Bezos is richer than several whole countries, including oil-rich Qatar. Hardly petty envy to think something is amiss!

[Unmoderated]

 

Aligning CGT at income tax rates was one of jeremy corbyns plans and he got hammered for it. Quite funny to see alot of the Labour policies now slowly being rolled out by the "Conservative" government 

Quite funny you're comparing a status quo manifesto of tax and spend Labour with the national emergency of a pandemic.

I'm sure everything the govt are doing goes hard against their grain but if we'd already had these tax rises in with Labour the revenues generated would already be spoken for. 

You are making an unfair and diagonal comparison. 

[Unmoderated]

 

Funny. However, inequality is now such that Bezos is richer than several whole countries, including oil-rich Qatar. Hardly petty envy to think something is amiss!

Imagine being so rich you built rockets and planned a base on Mars for lols!!

[Voltron]

 

Holy moly I thought you were kidding

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/employers/employer-contribution-rates/

Prison Officers get 34.1%, still not enough to work in that job. Wouldn't wish that job on anyone.

[Wayward]

Wont raise much money and will discourage saving and investment.  Real issue is primary residence being zero rated for CGT...and all the untaxed, unearned wealth flooding the coffers of the well off due to this.