CGT, no G&T

[Unmoderated]

Capital gains tax: Rate should double, says government review

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54908037

 

About fricking time!

[longgone]

I knew they would do this, no one is going to complain as most are working to keep their head above water in the first place paye is taxed to the max on what are poor wages for most.

CGT is a luxury tax for those with money to invest.

I can see the share isa going too.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

 

I knew they would do this, no one is going to complain as most are working to keep their head above water in the first place paye is taxed to the max on what are poor wages for most.

CGT is a luxury tax for those with money to invest.

I can see the share isa going too.

 

Yes, I'm feeling smug.

I worked out this was coming a long time ago. The suppression of wages and reduction in interest rates over time has meant that taxes on capital gains were bound to be needed.

If you measure the success of a man as earning more and being wealthier than his wife's sister's husband, then by this measure I am sorted - particularly after this news!!!

Said  beleaguered brother-in-law is in the property industry (retail) and despite furlough has had to let staff go and has all his wealth (no pension) tied up in the business and has had an interest only mortgage for the last 20 years. 

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/h_l_mencken_161801

Wealth - any income that is at least one hundred dollars more a year than the income of one's wife's sister's husband.

H. L. Mencken

 

 

 

 

[lombardo]

How will they win the next election with this? Too many of their friends own assets. 

[Unmoderated]

 

I knew they would do this, no one is going to complain as most are working to keep their head above water in the first place paye is taxed to the max on what are poor wages for most.

CGT is a luxury tax for those with money to invest.

I can see the share isa going too.

Yes lots of wrappers will be ripped off I think, ISA, VCT, even pensions allowance. 

You're right on the luxury tax aspect. CGT impacts precious few people compared to income tax too. 

[Unmoderated]

 

Wealth - any income that is at least one hundred dollars more a year than the income of one's wife's sister's husband.

H. L. Mencken

I love this quote  

[hayder]

 

How will they win the next election with this? Too many of their friends own assets. 

lesser of two evils? (i.e. risk of losing to Labour as the priced out, outnumber the haves?)

[Unmoderated]

 

How will they win the next election with this? Too many of their friends own assets. 

From the article:

More than 31 million people pay tax on their income, raising £180bn in 2017/18. By contrast, only 265,000 pay tax on capital gains - the profits they make when they sell assets such as shares or bonds. The first £12,300 is exempt; and because you can control when you sell an asset and realise a gain, many - some 50,000 - can arrange their affairs so any gain they made comes just in under the threshold. And when they do pay capital gains tax, it's at half the rate of income tax.

That's how!

[scottbeard]

 

How will they win the next election with this? Too many of their friends own assets. 

Do you really think people with lots of assets subject to CGT will be voting Labour now instead?! 

Personally I think this is a good move - some taxes have to go up to pay for all this, and one that targets people with lots of assets and/or trying to pretend their salaries are capital gains seems a good shout.

 

[satsuma]

It’s probably just the start, first they go with the tax on the perceived wealthy, it’s a political move the same as not including many freelancers in the bailouts.  I’d say they will follow up with increases in PAYE tax later.  

[captainb]

 

It’s probably just the start, first they go with the tax on the perceived wealthy, it’s a political move the same as not including many freelancers in the bailouts.  I’d say they will follow up with increases in PAYE tax later.  

Which freelancers? 

Those who missed out are those who haven't yet put in a tax return... As they started recently. 

Inherent problem in including them is anyone could just claim to be one.. And get a grant. Yeah.. Definitely started that photography gig was earning the max furlough just haven't filed yet.. 

[satsuma]

 

Which freelancers? 

Those who missed out are those who haven't yet put in a tax return... As they started recently. 

Inherent problem in including them is anyone could just claim to be one.. And get a grant. Yeah.. Definitely started that photography gig was earning the max furlough just haven't filed yet.. 

Freelancers with tax returns were not covered regardless of tax return if they worked through a ltd which most do

[captainb]

 

Freelancers with tax returns were not covered regardless of tax return if they worked through a ltd which most do

Then they would be covered by furlough through the salary they paid themself from the Ltd company.... At 80% of whatever that is. 

The company's income itself wouldn't be covered as no company was. They should have realised the difference in legal structure between me and me Ltd. 

Of course if they paid out a full salary then there would be no difference between them and a furloughed employee. 

 

If you tax maximise by using divis which are inherently company performance you can't be shocked not to get the full level of support as a full paying paye employee. 

If you were I hold plenty of shares in companies that have suspended divis.. Come on gov

Edited November 11, 2020 by captainb

[satsuma]

 

Then they would be covered by furlough through the salary they paid themself from the Ltd company.... At 80% of whatever that is. 

The company's income itself wouldn't be covered as no company was. They should have realised the difference in legal structure between me and me Ltd. 

Of course if they paid out a full salary then there would be no difference between them and a furloughed employee. 

 

If you tax maximise by using divis which are inherently company performance you can't be shocked not to get the full level of support as a full paying paye employee. 

If you were I hold plenty of shares in companies that have suspended divis.. Come on gov

they excluded those paid by dividends 

[adarmo]

 

Do you really think people with lots of assets subject to CGT will be voting Labour now instead?! 

Personally I think this is a good move - some taxes have to go up to pay for all this, and one that targets people with lots of assets and/or trying to pretend their salaries are capital gains seems a good shout.

 

Agreed

[captainb]

 

they excluded those paid by dividends 

Of course they did. As I said in my post that's not enployment income but company distribution. Same as a pensioner owning BP shares that have had their divi cut. 

You can't set up a structure to deliberately avoid social security contributions - employees and employers NI and then be horrified you are not covered by a social security net. Well you can feign shock but nill sympathy from anyone who understands it. 

As the whole divi, salary structure is a tax fizz.. They would have been paying a salary element covered by furlough so get some coverage anyway, for tax optimisation 9k salary for themselves and another 16k for a spouse if they don't work.. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by captainb

[satsuma]

 

Of course they did. As I said in my post that's not enployment income but company distribution. Same as a pensioner owning BP shares that have had their divi cut. 

You can't set up a structure to deliberately avoid social security contributions - employees and employers NI and then be horrified you are not covered by a social security net. Well you can feign shock but nill sympathy from anyone who understands it. 

As the whole divi, salary structure is a tax fizz.. They would have been paying a salary element covered by furlough so get some coverage anyway, for tax optimisation 9k salary for themselves and another 16k for a spouse if they don't work.. 

Not really accurate, they pay Corp tax, they pay VAT, they pay dividend tax up to 38% and then they pay again to take a salary.  On top of this they don’t even own the money left in the company.  

[captainb]

 

Not really accurate, they pay Corp tax, they pay VAT, they pay dividend tax up to 38% and then they pay again to take a salary.  On top of this they don’t even own the money left in the company.  

Sorry that is really not accurate. Let's take a one man band company. 

They pay vat if turnover is over 85k charged and reclaimed by a customer. So net nill unless working for financial services or exempt Co which most won't be. 

Also note you are above the 50k limit for self employed grant anyway at this level. 

 

They pay Corp tax on profits after all costs etc including directors salary - again pay yourself a salary and get furlough and get you don't pay Corp tax. 

You only pay divi tax at that rate if a higher rate taxpayer otherwise its 7.5% with a 2k tax free allowance.. Given the whole point is they are not paying a salary to themselves they are erm not a higher rate taxpayer. If they were furlough yourself.. You also seem confused as if you pay tax twice on divi and salary, you don't. 

 

They don't own the cash in the company??! Of course not it's involved gross and the company is a totally seperate legal entity to them. They need to pay tax to extract it to them the same as an employee or shareholder of BP. No different. 

They just chose the lowest possible tax route out avoiding the social security net by paying majority divis as if they are a shareholder not employee of the legal entity. As I said support that support the BP share owning pensioner. Its nonsense 

Edited November 12, 2020 by captainb

[satsuma]

 

Sorry that is really not accurate. Let's take a one man band company. 

They pay vat if turnover is over 85k charged and reclaimed by a customer. So net nill unless working for financial services or exempt Co which most won't be. 

Also note you are above the 50k limit for self employed grant anyway at this level. 

 

They pay Corp tax on profits after all costs etc including directors salary - again pay yourself a salary and get furlough and get you don't pay Corp tax. 

You only pay divi tax at that rate if a higher rate taxpayer otherwise its 7.5% with a 2k tax free allowance.. Given the whole point is they are not paying a salary to themselves they are erm not a higher rate taxpayer. If they were furlough yourself.. You also seem confused as if you pay tax twice on divi and salary, you don't. 

 

They don't own the cash in the company??! Of course not it's involved gross and the company is a totally seperate legal entity to them. They need to pay tax to extract it to them the same as an employee or shareholder of BP. No different. 

They just chose the lowest possible tax route out avoiding the social security net by paying majority divis as if they are a shareholder not employee of the legal entity. As I said support that support the BP share owning pensioner. Its nonsense 

Utter tosh interspersed with the odd facts.  I particularly enjoyed your Alice in Wonderland assessment of the VAT system

[captainb]

 

Utter tosh interspersed with the odd facts.  I particularly enjoyed your Alice in Wonderland assessment of the VAT system

Sorry you've lost the plot. You have clearly never worked in a buisness as a non employee. 

85k is the de minimus limit for vat registerstation. 

You charge a company vat by making a taxable supply they reclaim the vat in full, unless exempt or partially exempt which most are not. Financial services and charities and food being the majority of exemptions. 

 

Additionaly your shock that a company cash is not their own shows a lack of understanding of basic company law and accounting 

Learn before you claim divis should be covered in support 

Edited November 12, 2020 by captainb

[Pop321]

 

Capital gains tax: Rate should double, says government review

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54908037

 

About fricking time!

The avoidable tax. 

It sounds good but as I mentioned on another thread this discourages sales.

If you own a house ‘worth’ £500k and knew if you sold it you would get £420k (ie in this made up example of mine CGT is £80k) would you sell? What happens is the house is stripped out for an overdue refurb, sold onto the kids, family or friend for £350k (genuine valuation done) and passed on. 

Not saying CGT increases are fundamentally a wrong idea rather it might not increase revenue....it depends on the finer detail. 

It’s a funny tax. On shares Etc it is completely avoidable because a £12.5k allowance with partial sales each year completely tax free Profits. £12.5k (or £25k a couple) is a huge amount of pure profit for 99% of the population. House differ though because they can’t be split. 

This will make an interesting watch but large CGT charges may make property become yielding assets to be past on rather than saleable assets. 

Hopefully some decent price falls by the removal of all the daft house price props should help mitigate CGT 😂😉
 

 

 

[erat_forte]

 

they excluded those paid by dividends 

I don't understand, why would a person "pay themselves by dividends" rather than just a normal wage or salary?

[winkie]

Since the economy needs people to work, spend and save so as not to be a drain on the public purse can't understand why they clearly are not making it in peoples best interests to do so......wealth gained from speculating to accumulate has been the only game, now it is the time to re-look at taxing that free gain...... 

[Roman Roady]

The race is run, the book is read, the end begins to show....

End game!

The money has to be found (or at least look like you are trying to find it), else prepare for the consequences of defending the  currency. In a nation of habitual debtors, nobody wants that!

And we have BREXIT too...remember that?

[scottbeard]

 

It sounds good but as I mentioned on another thread this discourages sales.

You raised a good point on that thread when you said a land value tax would be better, as it ENCOURAGES sales.

I agree!

I still think this CGT change is a good move though, because whilst it discourages existing BTLers from selling, it pretty much stops BTL becoming attractive in the first place for anyone in the future - you won't see people "snapping up" any more BTLs now.  It's a slow burner, but a good move.