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Granny stacker meets Private Equity


Will!
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Financial Times: UK retirement homes: the granny backers

I've had to deal with residents in a couple of McCarthy & Stone blocks of flats.

The first thing to say is they're not care homes.  Old people can buy or rent flats (with sky-high services charges or rents), but if and when they become frail enough to need personal care then McCarthy & Stone really want them out.

Their business model relies on old people selling their expensive houses to afford the flats.  As the property market has stagnated they have had to take some local authority residents, who don't produce as good profit margins.

Covid, of course, has decimated some of these places populations, creating voids.

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Not the best way of using money, service charges high....get the best advice.

Very many now looking for suitable property where funds can be pooled with children/family where there is separate self contained and independent living, or a granny annexe.....over time saves the tax payer millions in care costs.... perhaps some sort of tax advantage could be built into people looking after their own old, they once looked after us.....what goes around comes around.;)

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Financial Times: UK retirement homes: the granny backers

I've had to deal with residents in a couple of McCarthy & Stone blocks of flats.

The first thing to say is they're not care homes.  Old people can buy or rent flats (with sky-high services charges or rents), but if and when they become frail enough to need personal care then McCarthy & Stone really want them out.

Their business model relies on old people selling their expensive houses to afford the flats.  As the property market has stagnated they have had to take some local authority residents, who don't produce as good profit margins.

Covid, of course, has decimated some of these places populations, creating voids.

We were buying a place from people moving into one of their flats pre lockdown. They backed out mid lockdown when they realised they were looking forward to moving into a luxury prison! Can't say I blamed them, did cost me 300 quid though.

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Not the best way of using money, service charges high....get the best advice.

Very many now looking for suitable property where funds can be pooled with children/family where there is separate self contained and independent living, or a granny annexe.....over time saves the tax payer millions in care costs.... perhaps some sort of tax advantage could be built into people looking after their own old, they once looked after us.....what goes around comes around.;)

 My Mother nearly bough a McCarthy & Stoneflat in Sussex for over 200k a few years ago. Really poor investment which can only be occupied by over 60's and difficult to sell. Quite unethical marketing, she completed a tickbox list showing how it suited all her 'needs' and a deposit was taken on the day.  Using psychological manipulation sales tactics like this on elderly is really bad business.  Her needs extended well beyond moving a mile nearer to the town centre into 'sheltered' accomodation with a warden calling in, within 18 months mum was in residential nursing home care and the flat would have been a white elephant.     

 Disagree with the "over time saves the tax payer millions in care costs"  as NHS continuing health care funding is super difficult to get and normally funded instead by a charging order/forced sale of the 'customers' house.

 The charging order 'agreement' was signed by my mother, despite having dementia and deemed by themselves as not having mental capacity -WSCC social services 'ethics'...  In two years mum never got any NHS funding as she was in good health-even when on the mortuary slab apparently. 

 Listening to the same Social workers and care home owners VI's ague both that she was too ill to live at home without 24/7 care,  but at the same time her illnesses were too mild for NHS funding made for dismal entertaiment. 

 Decent standard of care costing a £1000 a week makes a good case for becoming a carer, I gave up several years to be a carer but savings made I managed to buy a house from inheritance, after nearly 30 years of generation rent.

Demographic trends, many more living in care with dementia or behavioural problems makes elder care increasingly unaffordable, pre-virus we were heading into a demographic and funding /staffing time bomb.  

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  • 4 months later...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/mar/28/i-cant-sell-mums-retirement-flat-and-the-charges-are-mounting-up

She says two auction houses have told her that they are not taking on retirement properties. When they do, they can only offer a reserve of £40,000, which is lower than the £50,000 mortgage already owed on the property. Adding to the loan would mean accruing interest on the charges.

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13 minutes ago, Si1 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/mar/28/i-cant-sell-mums-retirement-flat-and-the-charges-are-mounting-up

She says two auction houses have told her that they are not taking on retirement properties. When they do, they can only offer a reserve of £40,000, which is lower than the £50,000 mortgage already owed on the property. Adding to the loan would mean accruing interest on the charges.

Sounds like she's the executor of an insolvent estate.  It shouldn't cost her anything.

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1 hour ago, Si1 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/mar/28/i-cant-sell-mums-retirement-flat-and-the-charges-are-mounting-up

She says two auction houses have told her that they are not taking on retirement properties. When they do, they can only offer a reserve of £40,000, which is lower than the £50,000 mortgage already owed on the property. Adding to the loan would mean accruing interest on the charges.

Aunt left one of these. Her executor was lumbered with it for years, service charges mounting. He tried to auction it with no reserve - no bites. Poor guy nearly had a breakdown over it.

They are deservedly toxic. 

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Our local well know builder McCarthy & Sons in BCP make millions managing these properties with ever increasing service charges it's a scandal and lots for sale for cheap prices if over 55 but the reason they are cheap is service charges which seem to go up 10-15% every year and with the new fire safety rules waiting for royal assent they you will see this get a lt worse due o all the new red tape and regulations coming after the grenfell fire.  Lots of homeless OAP's on top of lots of professional single workers who mainly live in flats as buying a house on one salary now unafffordable.  The only people not affected are those on benefit like the young lady in this article as state will pay their service charge, rent and council tax.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7558347/Council-tenants-stunning-sea-views-just-270-month.html

Makes you wonder why you bother doing a 60 hr week for 40 yrs.

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Just looked up the development and here are some sale prices.

£92,000 2 Mar 2020  
£92,188 10 Nov 2004

 

£96,000 24 Sep 2020  
£103,000 19 Dec 2016  
£68,000 7 Mar 2003

 

£95,000 22 Dec 2020  
£85,000 8 Sep 2014  
£125,000 10 Dec 2007  
£95,000 14 Feb 2005  
£49,000 20 Jun 2002

 

£112,000 23 Jul 2018  
£160,025 24 Oct 2011  
£160,025 24 Sep 2007
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When I use to bid on council properties there was a lot of sheltered housing that had very few bids, lots of surplus it seemed 

If you ask me it's bit scandalous that these elderly people don't have access to these properties just because they're homeowners.

Edited by spacedin
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7 minutes ago, spacedin said:

When I use to bid on council properties there was a lot of sheltered housing that had very few bids, lots of surplus it seemed 

If you ask me it's bit scandalous that these elderly people don't have access to these properties just because they're homeowners.

I bet they were buying McCarthy and stone flats because they thought they'd make money on property, just like they always had done before.

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24 minutes ago, spacedin said:

When I use to bid on council properties there was a lot of sheltered housing that had very few bids, lots of surplus it seemed 

I noticed this too when bidding. 

I think it is possible that some homeowners can get age restricted /sheltered council properties. I saw a programme where a woman was struck with illness and could not return to her Victoria terraced house due to the steep stairs. She was offered a rented bungalow. 

I assume that there must be a stipulation on the council/Housing Association tenancy that the former house is sold. 

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6 hours ago, Si1 said:

Interesting that these are toxic assets now

Always had been.

McCnS have moved to rental options as theyve over built and people are, rightly, swerving them.

Theres only a finite number of people you can scam before people twig.

You only find out the total charges from residents, as they are totally opaque.

Scam.

People would do better selling up, giving money to kids, then going in an LA home.

Or at least trading down and keeping cash for services.

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Always had been.

McCnS have moved to rental options as theyve over built and people are, rightly, swerving them.

Theres only a finite number of people you can scam before people twig.

You only find out the total charges from residents, as they are totally opaque.

Scam.

People would do better selling up, giving money to kids, then going in an LA home.

Or at least trading down and keeping cash for services.

 

 

 

 

Behavioural investing. One of the worst investing mistakes can be not recognising when you've been right for the wrong reasons. Boomers. Housing equity. McCarthy and stone. Poof.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Si1 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/mar/28/i-cant-sell-mums-retirement-flat-and-the-charges-are-mounting-up

She says two auction houses have told her that they are not taking on retirement properties. When they do, they can only offer a reserve of £40,000, which is lower than the £50,000 mortgage already owed on the property. Adding to the loan would mean accruing interest on the charges.

What I think is interesting about this story is that the management company, FirstPort, are trying to string her along by suggesting a service charge payment plan or letting it out.  FirstPort are running the risk that she discovers that as an executor of an insolvent estate she can just hand over the keys to the equity release co and tell them to whistle.

To me this suggests, as @spyguy says, that they've run out of people to scam.  If they had another mark then they'd make a 'generous' offer to buy the flat back for whatever they were owed and play again.

Edited by Will!
speling
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I think it depends on the area. My Mum is in one and it has worked out very well she has been there 5 years.years. Without it she would of been in care I suspect three years ago. You certainly shouldn't get one with a mortgage because the best you can hope for is it stays the  same or loses value. We moved her from the home counties to be near us.

Hers is 5 minutes from the High St in a very expensive part of a London borough.  It was £190k and probably still worth that now. The point is people are coming out of £600k and upwards houses so in a way paying for their care in a different way.

Service charge is £260 a month which considering there is a warden who checks on them all is not bad , no other insurances to pay obviously and that includes a 24 hour emergency care system and no maintenance.

 The charge has been around this all the time she has been there. For the more mobile there are social gatherings (pre covid) outings, lottery pool etc

Its low rise with 40 units with lots of parking and lawns. Surprised they haven't gone for flattening it and building flats. Value looks stable since they are building one of those McCarthy and Stone prisons two roads down with no doubt extortionate service charges and 200 units. Bit like the Hatton Garden effect it will attract buyers in

We have divvied the proceeds of her house up so even if she has to go into care our exposure is now just the flat, so sort of worked for us.

They probably are a scam when similar price properties are built in the middle of nowhere - but for us it worked

Edit:  her company is FirstPort who are just a management company I guess it depends how they did the deal got a letter only last week saying there was a surplus on the service account last year and they are crediting everyone back. 

 

Edited by GregBowman
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8 minutes ago, Will! said:

What I think is interesting about this story is that the management company, FirstPort, are trying to string her along by suggesting a service charge payment plan or letting it out.  FirstPort are running the risk that she discovers that as an executor of an insolent estate she can just hand over the keys to the equity release co and tell them to whistle.

To me this suggests, as @spyguy says, that they've run out of people to scam.  If they had another mark then they'd make a 'generous' offer to buy the flat back for whatever they were owed and play again.

The flats in my Mums block change hands like any other property through the local estate agents

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7 minutes ago, GregBowman said:

The flats in my Mums block change hands like any other property through the local estate agents

Do they take long to sell?

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13 hours ago, GregBowman said:

We have divvied the proceeds of her house up so even if she has to go into care our exposure is now just the flat, so sort of worked for us.

@GregBowmanI know you have me on ignore, but I am dealing with my mum's living arrangements and so I know that if the council suspects that she or you attempted to deprive her of assets (which to me it sounds like you have), they can and will come after you and your siblings to claw the money back to fund her care.

There have been cases of these parasites going back 20 years to pull in cash which they feel they are entitled to.

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22 minutes ago, Locke said:

@GregBowmanI know you have me on ignore, but I am dealing with my mum's living arrangements and so I know that if the council suspects that she or you attempted to deprive her of assets (which to me it sounds like you have), they can and will come after you and your siblings to claw the money back to fund her care.

There have been cases of these parasites going back 20 years to pull in cash which they feel they are entitled to.

That's quite a grey and thorny issue ain't it:

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

 

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10 hours ago, Locke said:

@GregBowmanI know you have me on ignore, but I am dealing with my mum's living arrangements and so I know that if the council suspects that she or you attempted to deprive her of assets (which to me it sounds like you have), they can and will come after you and your siblings to claw the money back to fund her care.

There have been cases of these parasites going back 20 years to pull in cash which they feel they are entitled to.

Lost in the mists of time so not any more - hello!

Thanks for that. It is a different council  but still applies I know. Our strategy has been to keep her as well as possible in her own place. Her income covers all our ex's. not sure how we got the deal but we pay £213.00 a week for two care visits during the day and an overnight carer (and we declare ourselves as paying 100%) She is 91 in July harsh but even if she did go in won't be that long.

The Barnet form only asks you to declare any property sold within the last 5 years and she is up to 4+ now. The house her and dad lived in was in Surrey

Thanks again

 

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