wighty Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 44 minutes ago, Chunketh said: He managed to go bankrupt with a casino. How the hell does that happen!? Mafia backers skimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 But isn't one the ironies of this issue that nobody seems to trust the public? Aren't most people covered by one of the following: 1) Trump is dangerous, so we must restrict his speech. 2) Restricting Trump's speech is dangerous, and it's dangerous that seemingly the majority of people are welcoming it. Doesn't that suggest that the majority of people are incapable of functioning with political information? 2 hours ago, Riedquat said: Personally I don't think that anyone is being banned for holding truly unacceptable opinions, as in outright banned. But there's a hell of a lot of "if you don't think exactly the way we think you should then your opinions are unacceptable, and you'll be ostracised because you're clearly scum. The outcome isn't as severe but the mentality appears very similar to typical religious intolerance. And I say this about some people even with opinions that I agree with. Then they get lumped in together with the real outright loonies and the whole lot treated the same. It's brainlessly over-simplified and polarising. Ostracism is a good tactic if your audience believes you, but it's risky. Is it surprising that so many people demonise or ostracise their opponents, or is it surprising that so few do so? 2 hours ago, Riedquat said: My take on Trump is that he should be allowed to say what he likes, and his nonsense dismissed for what it is. But what we shouldn't do is take sides to an extreme degree, saying that all on one side is right and should not be questioned and all on the other is bad. And neither does saying that mean that the two are equal either. We've seen it with issues like Brexit - it's become pretty much acceptable to have the prejudice that anyone who voted Leave is a racists and xenophobe and a badly-educated idiot who worships Farage. Some are. And the more it's seen as acceptable to have that position the better the chance of the truly nasty elements gaining power due to being the most visible ones rejecting it (I can't stand Farage and I voted Leave). Your example of Brexit is interesting as it seems to share very little with the American political experience. Rather than trying to ban leavers, I think there has been a compulsion to debate with them constantly. There were a few times when leave campaigners were thought to have lied (£350m bus) or been racist (Farage poster), but then people criticised those specific instances. The closest I think there has been to an attempt to cancel in Britain was the attacks on Corbyn, and I'm not really sure what to make of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 47 minutes ago, Biggus said: 'According to the reports, the Uganda government on Tuesday through the Uganda Communications Commission (UCC) has ordered internet service providers to block access to social media applications and websites. It was reported that Twitter and Facebook were trying to interfere in the elections by blocking certain pro-government voices.' https://www.opindia.com/2021/01/uganda-bans-twitter-and-facebook-over-election-interference-allegations/ The source is fairly biased, true. But it has a ring of truth to it. Twitter, Facebook and the rest of the left wing extremeists have been banning people with opinions they disagree with. Including the President of the United States. So shutting them down during an election seems like a very reasonable course of action. Hopefully it will become standard practice. The best thing about this, though, is the wailing left. After banning people and words and destroying careers in a neo-McCarthyism they suddenly get all outraged about freedom of speech. It's comedy gold. Saw this on CH4 on Monday. Its the Ugandan gov trying to cover up their Egypt esque blocking of social media platforms ahead of the election, you can add that to their blocking of opposition political rallies and their illegal detention, torture and murder of opposition candidates and their supporters. Its not at all similar to the situation with Trump, although I do think the Trump ban is a sideshow to what is really going on in the SM sphere atm. Parley, just wow. I was speaking to a few colleagues today about it, and we came to the conclusion that the small lag in shutting down Parley; first Apple appstore, then droid store, then AWS, was to give the faux appearance of legitimacy. Had they wished it, they could have destroyed them in seconds. THAT is what everyone should be worried about, and yet another reason that the cloud first mentality is bonkers. Think about how fast they could shut down other sites - Do any of the major Crypto exchanges use AWS/Azure/GoogleCloud? Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 hours ago, mrlegend123 said: OK what has been happening in this current system? The system is heading towards the plughole. look at QE, low interest rates, falling bond yields Do you think Trump did anything to change this for the better? 1 hour ago, mrlegend123 said: efforts of the CBs.... lower IRs and print money. the tools which no longer work. end game when IRs go negative..... bond market dead housing market out of reach of most first time buyers baby boomers policies stole the future of next generations by reducing their living standards When Jerome Powell start to increase IRs, Trump was very critical of him. Trump has been far more focused on pumping up the stock market than any previous President. About a year ago when his approval wavered or he faced some criticism, he said: "Maybe you don't like my personality, but you like that your 401k is up massively." Boomers are a lot more wealthy than millennials and have a lot of that wealth in the stock market. If generations really matter to you, reflect on the fact that Trump is a boomer, whereas Biden is the silent generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, Chunketh said: I was speaking to a few colleagues today about it, and we came to the conclusion that the small lag in shutting down Parley; first Apple appstore, then droid store, then AWS, was to give the faux appearance of legitimacy. Had they wished it, they could have destroyed them in seconds. What do you mean by legitimacy? 17 minutes ago, Chunketh said: THAT is what everyone should be worried about, and yet another reason that the cloud first mentality is bonkers. Think about how fast they could shut down other sites - Do any of the major Crypto exchanges use AWS/Azure/GoogleCloud? How much would it cost to set up an alternative to these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephant Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, mrlegend123 said: it has been fun on this forum for the day. I am off again. the forum has been overrun with blind baby boomers and left wingers.......... As opposed to more ‘baby’ in your case! Your posts really are full of “waaaaah!” 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Young Turk said: What do you mean by legitimacy? How much would it cost to set up an alternative to these? The excuse AWS and Apple used was "Provide us proof that you are policing your platform to our satisfaction" I think apple gave them a week to come up with the proof and AWS the weekend. I've read a few reports stating that both companies ghosted Parley immediately after notification. Setting up an alternative...difficult. You could try a public hosting company and rent some racked servers. That would be pretty quick but not really an permanent remedy as that host provider could just do the exact same thing. A more permanent solution is to get fibre laid to your own offices/hosting centre and run your own tin. That takes months. Of course, if your government took issue with what you were up to they could just cut that connection at the exchange. I can see a third solution in my head, but now i've thought of it im going to keep it quiet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlegend123 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 this website is full of left winger baby boomers. I've spent one day posting and no more. money saving expert and mumsnet is now better than this website..... HPC website went down......... Trump may have been impeached a second time – but Trumpism will live on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: this website is full of left winger baby boomers. I've spent one day posting and no more. money saving expert and mumsnet is now better than this website..... HPC website went down......... Trump may have been impeached a second time – but Trumpism will live on! It will, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: this website is full of left winger baby boomers. I've spent one day posting and no more. money saving expert and mumsnet is now better than this website..... HPC website went down......... Trump may have been impeached a second time – but Trumpism will live on! Sorry to see you go! You won't be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, mrlegend123 said: this website is full of left winger baby boomers. I've spent one day posting and no more. You complained about angry responses, but you just ignored responses which weren't angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlegend123 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, rollover said: Sorry to see you go! You won't be missed. goodbye. make sure you get me blocked for having a different view on trump......who gives a xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlegend123 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Young Turk said: You complained about angry responses, but you just ignored responses which weren't angry. goodbye. when left wingers lose the debate or don't like hearing the other side you become a nasty bunch with insults. I used to have respect for this website be it has been overrun by left wingers and baby boomers. Goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: goodbye. make sure you get me blocked for having a different view on trump......who gives a xxxx But you're leaving – I don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chunketh said: The excuse AWS and Apple used was "Provide us proof that you are policing your platform to our satisfaction" I think apple gave them a week to come up with the proof and AWS the weekend. I've read a few reports stating that both companies ghosted Parley immediately after notification. I thought you meant something like that, but in what sense could their decisions have been illegitimate? If the owners want to remove Parler for ideological reasons that is their right and if they think it is in their financial interests, that is their right too. Similarly is there a case against twitter? Trump was banned for violating twitter's terms. Could he sue twitter for not banning other people who seemingly violate their terms? Could people who were banned immediately after violations sue twitter for not banning Trump for years despite numerous violations? I would have thought the answer would be that both of these cases would be very weak and that twitter's terms give them the right but not the obligation to ban people, but it would be interesting to hear opinions on this. 19 minutes ago, Chunketh said: Setting up an alternative...difficult. You could try a public hosting company and rent some racked servers. That would be pretty quick but not really an permanent remedy as that host provider could just do the exact same thing. A more permanent solution is to get fibre laid to your own offices/hosting centre and run your own tin. That takes months. I was wondering more about how much it would cost. There are a lot of rich Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: goodbye. when left wingers lose the debate or don't like hearing the other side you become a nasty bunch with insults. I used to have respect for this website be it has been overrun by left wingers and baby boomers. Goodbye This is your most well-reasoned argument yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Young Turk said: I thought you meant something like that, but in what sense could their decisions have been illegitimate? If the owners want to remove Parler for ideological reasons that is their right and if they think it is in their financial interests, that is their right too. Similarly is there a case against twitter? Trump was banned for violating twitter's terms. Could he sue twitter for not banning other people who seemingly violate their terms? Could people who were banned immediately after violations sue twitter for not banning Trump for years despite numerous violations? I would have thought the answer would be that both of these cases would be very weak and that twitter's terms give them the right but not the obligation to ban people, but it would be interesting to hear opinions on this. I was wondering more about how much it would cost. There are a lot of rich Republicans. Trumpy has the entire White House press corps at his beck and call! The suggestion that he's being censored is simply preposterous. Parler users are on firmer ground imho. Google/Apple's decision to shitcan the Parler app. has echoes of Microsoft's efforts to lock out rivals to Internet Exploder in the late 1990s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephant Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, mrlegend123 said: this website is full of left winger baby boomers. I've spent one day posting and no more. money saving expert and mumsnet is now better than this website..... HPC website went down......... Trump may have been impeached a second time – but Trumpism will live on! 54 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: goodbye. make sure you get me blocked for having a different view on trump......who gives a xxxx 48 minutes ago, mrlegend123 said: goodbye. when left wingers lose the debate or don't like hearing the other side you become a nasty bunch with insults. I used to have respect for this website be it has been overrun by left wingers and baby boomers. Goodbye Translation: ”Waaaaaahhh!!!!!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Turk Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Trumpy has the entire White House press corps at his beck and call! The suggestion that he's being censored is simply preposterous. Everyone has alternatives to twitter and Trump has lots of alternatives to twitter. Being banned from twitter does not mean you don't have free speech, but it does reduce power. I don't recall the people crying for Trump being bothered by the limited power of Sanders or Corbyn, due to having very few allies in the media. 20 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Parler users are on firmer ground imho. Google/Apple's decision to shitcan the Parler app. has echoes of Microsoft's efforts to lock out rivals to Internet Exploder in the late 1990s. I wasn't even thinking in terms of the Parler users, but the owners of Parler itself! That sounds like customers suing a supermarket if it decided to stop stocking a popular product (surely the supplier should sue the supermarket if they allege some anti-competitive behaviour). People use Parler because they have been banned from twitter, or the people they want to follow have been banned, or their audience spends an increasing amount of time on Parler (as others they follow have been banned from twitter!), or they perceive a risk of being banned from twitter. Doesn't it follow that if there is any merit to twitter banning people, the case against Parler is fairly good? Are there really not enough rich, ideological Republicans who could fund an alternative in order to keep Parler online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 54 minutes ago, Young Turk said: I was wondering more about how much it would cost. There are a lot of rich Republicans. Depends how big you want to go and how much provision for future growth you want to make. If you are just talking about server infra and connectivity on a small scale you can do it at home with your broadband and any half decent computer. Costs can range from negligible with low capacity to $10s of millions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 57 minutes ago, Young Turk said: I thought you meant something like that, but in what sense could their decisions have been illegitimate? If the owners want to remove Parler for ideological reasons that is their right and if they think it is in their financial interests, that is their right too. Similarly is there a case against twitter? Trump was banned for violating twitter's terms. Could he sue twitter for not banning other people who seemingly violate their terms? Could people who were banned immediately after violations sue twitter for not banning Trump for years despite numerous violations? I would have thought the answer would be that both of these cases would be very weak and that twitter's terms give them the right but not the obligation to ban people, but it would be interesting to hear opinions on this. this is worth a read https://greenwald.substack.com/p/how-silicon-valley-in-a-show-of-monopolistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 39 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Trumpy has the entire White House press corps at his beck and call! The suggestion that he's being censored is simply preposterous. Parler users are on firmer ground imho. Google/Apple's decision to shitcan the Parler app. has echoes of Microsoft's efforts to lock out rivals to Internet Exploder in the late 1990s. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobodyInParticular Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 hours ago, zugzwang said: The bond market is dead because the prospect of inflation is extremely low everywhere. Surely you mean hyperinflation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 hours ago, NobodyInParticular said: Surely you mean hyperinflation? There's no fiat inflation to speak of. Fiat is being destroyed at least as quickly as it's being created, hence the global recession. Global recession except for the Zero Covid economies ofc. They're booming. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/13/new-zealand-jobs-market-bounces-back-close-to-pre-pandemic-levels Job vacancies are booming in New Zealand since the country contained an outbreak of the coronavirus with a hard lockdown in early 2020. The country’s biggest job advertising site, Seek, has reported a 19% national growth in jobs advertised in the final quarter of 2020, and the number of job ads on the website has bounced back to nearly pre-pandemic levels. The sectors posting the most vacancies included IT and communications, manufacturing, transport & logistics and trades & services. Jobs in customer-facing roles have taken the hardest hit. The news follows a surprise economic recovery for the country, with finance minister Grant Robertson in December reporting the economy grew 14% in the third quarter of 2020. “The economic bounce back is a result of our decision to go hard and early during the Covid-19 pandemic,” Robertson said at the time, referring to the seven-week lockdown that began in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Young Turk said: I thought you meant something like that, but in what sense could their decisions have been illegitimate? If the owners want to remove Parler for ideological reasons that is their right and if they think it is in their financial interests, that is their right too. Similarly is there a case against twitter? Trump was banned for violating twitter's terms. Could he sue twitter for not banning other people who seemingly violate their terms? Could people who were banned immediately after violations sue twitter for not banning Trump for years despite numerous violations? I would have thought the answer would be that both of these cases would be very weak and that twitter's terms give them the right but not the obligation to ban people, but it would be interesting to hear opinions on this. I was wondering more about how much it would cost. There are a lot of rich Republicans. I am sure the Russians, Chinese or Iranians would be happy to offer to host it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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