Bear Goggles Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I'm not thinking about failed communist states that degenerate into anarchy. Instead look at China's special economic zones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_economic_zones_of_China Yes. Big government should get out of the way and be more like... er... China.🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) The thing is, most people have broken the covid restrictions in some way, so it make him look more normal, like one of us. The journalists attacking him just made themselves look ridiculous. Not just the journalists 80 pages whinging about Mr Brexit. A million people wasting their time on petitions. Thankfully, far from a majority are these demented cows 🐮 Edited October 24, 2020 by Huggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougless Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Cummings is a lying cheat, just like Johnson is a lying cheat. If you feel empathy for lying cheats because their actions correspond to the lying cheat inside you then it makes sense to defend the lying cheats. Spot-On. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Yes. Big government should get out of the way and be more like... er... China.🤔 It's interesting, isn't it? The UK state consumes about 40% of the entire economy. The CCP takes less than 20%. It's important to distinguish between the size of government and the scope of government. That is to say the state can interfere in a huge amount of activity without spending much money. This is discussed in a video originally linked to by Injin, many years ago. In any case I'm interested in what works economically. The SEZs have been working for China. The Chinese copied Hong Kong, where growth was also stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 It's interesting, isn't it? The UK state consumes about 40% of the entire economy. The CCP takes less than 20%. It's important to distinguish between the size of government and the scope of government. That is to say the state can interfere in a huge amount of activity without spending much money. This is discussed in a video originally linked to by Injin, many years ago. In any case I'm interested in what works economically. The SEZs have been working for China. The Chinese copied Hong Kong, where growth was also stunning. Very interesting, yes. Comfirms my view that (regrettably) liberalism is on the back foot. That a draconian, authoritarian surveillance state like the CCP can be regarded as “small government”, simply on the basis of GDP share, is in complete contradiction to all of the associated benefits of classical liberalism described in that lecture. It demonstrates, as is eluded to by the lecturer, that “what works” economically is not necessarily synonymous with a free society in any form that we might recognise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlee74 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 "picking a cabinet largely made up of enthusiastic free marketeers" Apart from (of course) when it comes to the golden goose that is housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlee74 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) [dup] Edited October 24, 2020 by danlee74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobodyInParticular Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 "This anger was, however, rooted in long running economic and social grievances, the decimation of industry in the 1980s and the absence of any plan or investment since then in whole swathes of the country. To get elected Johnson made promises here while appealing to right wingers in his party and picking a cabinet largely made up of enthusiastic free marketeers many privately committed to continuing austerity." Government plans and interventions are not a good solution to the destruction of British industry. Governments are not good at creating and running profitable businesses. Instead they need to get out of the way and allow the market to function. If a run down down town or city, for example Hull, was turned into a low tax, lightly regulated area it would grow and prosper quickly. No schemes or wheezes are necessary. Billions of investment are not needed. Just stop being the problem and get out of the way. Corona was never going to have a good outcome for the government. They were either going to be heartless toffs sacrificing lives for the economy or they were going to strangle the economy. They chose the latter. Most private businesses fail, so I'm not sure the government track record is so bad. I take it you don't go to Hull much, as its regeneration was with a lot of government money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Most private businesses fail, so I'm not sure the government track record is so bad. I take it you don't go to Hull much, as its regeneration was with a lot of government money. My appologies. I did not mean to offend the good people of Hull. I'm sure it's an absolutely charming place. Does it look anything like this? That's the Shanghai free-trade zone. Not too shabby, eh? Here's a comparison with Shangai in 1990. I feel Shanghai has done OK from trade. Maybe even better than having the government spend billions pedestrianising a shopping centre or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Very interesting, yes. Comfirms my view that (regrettably) liberalism is on the back foot. That a draconian, authoritarian surveillance state like the CCP can be regarded as “small government”, simply on the basis of GDP share, is in complete contradiction to all of the associated benefits of classical liberalism described in that lecture. It demonstrates, as is eluded to by the lecturer, that “what works” economically is not necessarily synonymous with a free society in any form that we might recognise. True. It was Friedman who said 'History suggests that capitalism is a necessary condition for political freedom. Clearly it is not a sufficient condition.' People in Britain already enjoy a lot of freedom. But economically we could do so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 True. It was Friedman who said 'History suggests that capitalism is a necessary condition for political freedom. Clearly it is not a sufficient condition.' People in Britain already enjoy a lot of freedom. But economically we could do so much better. I have to say I’m not totally against the Chinese approach, sometimes people need to be directed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 At that stage most people had not broken the rules. At that stage he was an outlier. But as it was fine for him, it’s fine for everyone. Who cares, just do what you want. Don't overestimate how many people even know who such people and what they do anyway. Not everyone follows political shenanigans closely although would assume all people in power will behave badly anyway irrespective of who they are so not massively influenced by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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