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Masks or no Masks ?


Masks or no masks  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we keep wearing masks ?

    • Yes
      35
    • No
      22

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  • Poll closed on 10/23/2020 at 08:23 AM

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Interesting read.

I understand the argument for circumstances where masks may be ineffective or even detrimental to people, but I don’t accept that putting a mask on very briefly to buy some groceries or pay for fuel puts me at a heightened risk. 

The trouble is we will never know if face masks have a net benefit or not. I think the direct/indirect benefits are marginal but at least something.

Im tired of the notion that mask wearers think the thing is literally saving their lives... I think most people appreciate they are one of many measures required to improve our overall safety. 
 

The burning question is how will this play out? Will there be a covid 20 before we have a vaccine for 19!

How about a large scale randomised controlled trial? With 6000 participants, half wearing masks half not. 

Its completed but the authors haven't published yet as the results aren't politically correct!

 

 

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People have pretty much stopped dying of it because the most vulnerable are either dead or staying home, so if you just ignored it and got rid of the lockdown nonsense, no-one would really notice any more. Certainly it would be impossible to spot by looking at the death rates.

No - death rates have reduced because of all the measures taken.  If you relax the measures we'd go back to the 1,000 per days deaths of April.

If you put your umbrella up during a rain shower, you will stop getting wet.  But only for as long as you leave the umbrella up.  As soon as you put it down, you will get wet again.   It's still raining...

 

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How about a large scale randomised controlled trial? With 6000 participants, half wearing masks half not. 

Its completed but the authors haven't published yet as the results aren't politically correct!

 

 

Have you read the report? I can’t find any actual detail anywhere.

As it’s widely recognised that face masks in a clinical setting provide protection to health workers, I’m afraid I just don’t accept me wearing a mask briefly to go into a shop puts me at a greater risk of catching Covid.

Im intrigued by the parameters of the Danish trial but I don’t need a clinical experiment to convince me that putting a scarf around my face and nose when passing by someone closely, I’m covering my airways and creating a physical barrier should the unlikely event of a sneeze or cough occur.

If 3000 people put a mask on and went about their daily business, with the same small number contracting the virus as the non-masked lot, then I just don’t care. Its too complicated an experiment given that the benefit is being sold as minimal. 

 

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Have you read the report? I can’t find any actual detail anywhere.

As it’s widely recognised that face masks in a clinical setting provide protection to health workers, I’m afraid I just don’t accept me wearing a mask briefly to go into a shop puts me at a greater risk of catching Covid.

Im intrigued by the parameters of the Danish trial but I don’t need a clinical experiment to convince me that putting a scarf around my face and nose when passing by someone closely, I’m covering my airways and creating a physical barrier should the unlikely event of a sneeze or cough occur.

If 3000 people put a mask on and went about their daily business, with the same small number contracting the virus as the non-masked lot, then I just don’t care. Its too complicated an experiment given that the benefit is being sold as minimal. 

 

You can't find the report as it hasn't been published. The authors claim leading journals won't accept. 

The elephant in the room is aerosol transmission. Both surgical masks and fabric do very little to prevent aerosol transmission and may even provide a vector for aerosol transmission by nebulising virus that has landed on the mask's surface. 

Edited by The Preacherman
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You can't find the report as it hasn't been published. The authors claim leading journals won't accept. 

The elephant in the room is aerosol transmission. Both surgical masks and fabric do very little to prevent aerosol transmission and may even provide a vector for aerosol transmission by nebulising virus that has landed on the mask's surface. 

I cant deny that what you're saying makes sense, I just think the uplift in protection is minimal and given the reliance on people wearing masks correctly in conjunction with good hygiene, no trial or comparison to a non-mask wearing country would offer a definitive answer in my view. There are just too many variables; culture, geography, climate, demograhics of populations.

Masks are mandated and I think there are at least indirect benefits from wearing them, eg. Having a heightened awareness of your breathing and providing a physical barrier for your fingers to the nose and mouth.

My frustration regarding the pandemic is the time it took government to react. It makes me angry that Boris was gleefully declaring that he had been in hospitals, shaking hands with patients, only to put us lockdown 12 days later. It was embarrassing to be told they would take the right precautions at the right time... only to ramp things up rapidly a matter of days later. The response was not measured in any way.

I'm almost more angry with the way the general public have handled covid. Compliance of restrictions has always been low. I've watched the police drive laps around my local park but refrain from approaching large groups of people (this was even during the full lockdown.

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I cant deny that what you're saying makes sense, I just think the uplift in protection is minimal and given the reliance on people wearing masks correctly in conjunction with good hygiene, no trial or comparison to a non-mask wearing country would offer a definitive answer in my view. There are just too many variables; culture, geography, climate, demograhics of populations.

Masks are mandated and I think there are at least indirect benefits from wearing them, eg. Having a heightened awareness of your breathing and providing a physical barrier for your fingers to the nose and mouth.

My frustration regarding the pandemic is the time it took government to react. It makes me angry that Boris was gleefully declaring that he had been in hospitals, shaking hands with patients, only to put us lockdown 12 days later. It was embarrassing to be told they would take the right precautions at the right time... only to ramp things up rapidly a matter of days later. The response was not measured in any way.

I'm almost more angry with the way the general public have handled covid. Compliance of restrictions has always been low. I've watched the police drive laps around my local park but refrain from approaching large groups of people (this was even during the full lockdown.

Surely our police should be catching real criminals rather than enforcing random rules about people assembling in parks?

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Either way I’m going for a run this morning!!!

This morally improves your argument for masking because you are prepared to pull some weight in effort against your perceived danger (as opposed to a lazy person who is far higher risk for a sedentary lifestyle than any difference a mask will ever make, and lecturing everyone else). I don't agree with you on masks, you've gone up in my estimation that's all.

 

Or does us all being in shape get the death rate down to something more akin to normal flu?

Haha! no, if everyone was in shape it would be much better than that, along with many other diseases and conditions being far less, and life expectancy would be higher.

 

You can't find the report as it hasn't been published. The authors claim leading journals won't accept. 

The elephant in the room is aerosol transmission. Both surgical masks and fabric do very little to prevent aerosol transmission and may even provide a vector for aerosol transmission by nebulising virus that has landed on the mask's surface. 

This one saying that HCQ doesn't work must have politically conformed, but was then retracted for lacking science wise.  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

The following one was written by an editor for the BMJ for 25 years, 13 of which he was the editor and chief executive of the BMJ Publishing Group.

Medical Journals Are an Extension of the Marketing Arm of Pharmaceutical Companies

"Journal editors are becoming increasingly aware of how they are being manipulated and are fighting back [17,18], but I must confess that it took me almost a quarter of a century editing for the BMJ to wake up to what was happening"

Looks like they lost.

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This morally improves your argument for masking because you are prepared to pull some weight in effort against your perceived danger (as opposed to a lazy person who is far higher risk for a sedentary lifestyle than any difference a mask will ever make, and lecturing everyone else). I don't agree with you on masks, you've gone up in my estimation that's all.

Haha! no, if everyone was in shape it would be much better than that, along with many other diseases and conditions being far less, and life expectancy would be higher.

This one saying that HCQ doesn't work must have politically conformed, but was then retracted for lacking science wise.  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

The following one was written by an editor for the BMJ for 25 years, 13 of which he was the editor and chief executive of the BMJ Publishing Group.

Medical Journals Are an Extension of the Marketing Arm of Pharmaceutical Companies

"Journal editors are becoming increasingly aware of how they are being manipulated and are fighting back [17,18], but I must confess that it took me almost a quarter of a century editing for the BMJ to wake up to what was happening"

Looks like they lost.

I run most days. The initial lockdown was crazy, I was running past 50 people in random woodland areas you’d not normally see a single soul. I ended up having to do most of my mileage in town to avoid people out on their daily 60mins. 

I may be opinionated on masks but I’m pretty chilled about the mess that has been 2020. It is what it is. Or maybe it isn’t, but all I can do is ride it out. 

My wife and I have regularly said that, er, with the greatest of respect, had we not had kids then we would of made this year an epic one. Working from home all year, no horrible commute, eating healthily every day, planning day trips to go walking and hiking. 

I firmly believe that life is what you make it, and that sentiment is most important when life is trying to suck. 

In March we took a picture of our little girl in front of the kitchen blackboard with her thumbs up. Day 1 scrawled on it. Toilet rolls = 37. Smiley face and a list of activities. 

When will this all end!!!! I long for a week in my beloved Gran Canary! I miss those bl**dy German pensioners!!!

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Im intrigued by the parameters of the Danish trial but I don’t need a clinical experiment to convince me that putting a scarf around my face and nose when passing by someone closely, I’m covering my airways and creating a physical barrier should the unlikely event of a sneeze or cough occur.

But so what? That's the question that needs to be asked, rather than stopping after the first point. When you're telling someone to do something you always need to give a good reason for it, no matter how simple the requirement; "it might help" certainly isn't enough. You can still control what direction you point your head when you cough or sneeze. You can control where you put you arm. You've no need to be coughing or sneezing straight in someone's face - these are behaviours you should've had ingrained since you were a small child, well before anyone had ever heard of covid-19. When coupled with only passing a passer by for a couple of seconds (even a sneeze can usually be held that long) the risk should be so miniscule that there's nothing really sensible gained by trying to reduce it further, and trying to starts looking increasingly absurd.

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But so what? That's the question that needs to be asked, rather than stopping after the first point. When you're telling someone to do something you always need to give a good reason for it, no matter how simple the requirement; "it might help" certainly isn't enough. You can still control what direction you point your head when you cough or sneeze. You can control where you put you arm. You've no need to be coughing or sneezing straight in someone's face - these are behaviours you should've had ingrained since you were a small child, well before anyone had ever heard of covid-19. When coupled with only passing a passer by for a couple of seconds (even a sneeze can usually be held that long) the risk should be so miniscule that there's nothing really sensible gained by trying to reduce it further, and trying to starts looking increasingly absurd.

There are numerous studies and research papers that say masks ARE effective in reducing the spread of the virus.

I just read through a recent Independent article that references half a dozen papers including this one...

https://www.ed.ac.uk/covid-19-response/expert-insights/why-wearing-face-covering-can-make-difference

Of all the covid related inconveniences and restrictions currently placed on our lives, popping a face mask on is one that doesn’t trouble me.

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No - death rates have reduced because of all the measures taken.  If you relax the measures we'd go back to the 1,000 per days deaths of April.

If you put your umbrella up during a rain shower, you will stop getting wet.  But only for as long as you leave the umbrella up.  As soon as you put it down, you will get wet again.   It's still raining...

 

That sounds quite logical but consider this:

What if its raining hard but the rain is easing and you put your umbrella up.  If the the storm had eased anyway can you claim the umbrella stopped the rain?

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... When you're telling someone to do something you always need to give a good reason for it, no matter how simple the requirement; "it might help" certainly isn't enough.

I think it depends why you are telling them.

https://www.nateliason.com/notes/48-laws-power-robert-greene

Especially laws : 3,6,7,8,9,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,21,22,26,27,28,31,32,33,34,35,37,38,39,40,42,43,48

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That sounds quite logical but consider this:

What if its raining hard but the rain is easing and you put your umbrella up.  If the the storm had eased anyway can you claim the umbrella stopped the rain?

Err...no.  Umbrellas don't stop rain storms, just protect you from getting wet until it stops.

And neither do lockdowns STOP the pandemic.  They just protect people a bit until such time as it's actually stopped by something else like a vaccine.

But for MarkG to claim that basically the pandemic is now over, and so we should just all return to normal because the vulnerable people are either already dead or can hide indoors forever is just naïve.

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You can't find the report as it hasn't been published. The authors claim leading journals won't accept. 

The elephant in the room is aerosol transmission. Both surgical masks and fabric do very little to prevent aerosol transmission and may even provide a vector for aerosol transmission by nebulising virus that has landed on the mask's surface. 

 A research group in Denmark enrolled some 6,000 participants, asking half to use surgical face masks when going to a workplace. Although the study is completed, Thomas Benfield, a clinical researcher at the University of Copenhagen and one of the principal investigators on the trial, says that his team is not ready to share any results.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Nothing really stopping them from publishing this research elsewhere online?

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Merry Lockdown Covidians!!!

I just got the news they are house arresting everyone in the UK lol

Let me know when it's safe to come back and leave the granny killers here in Sweden behind

EVIL SELFISH SWEDES

Have you been wearing a mask? Have you been following the current guidelines? If not then this lockdown is on you and your thicko covidiot cohorts. No one else. Now suck it up. 

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Merry Lockdown Covidians!!!

I just got the news they are house arresting everyone in the UK lol

Let me know when it's safe to come back and leave the granny killers here in Sweden behind

EVIL SELFISH SWEDES

Yeah it’s definitely house arrest isn’t it?  I mean you’re only allowed out for work, school, shopping, exercise and medical appointments ie 90% of all the reasons you’d normally leave the house.  It’s a no socialising rule not a house arrest.

Youre just becoming annoying now.  

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