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Masks or no Masks ?


Masks or no masks  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we keep wearing masks ?

    • Yes
      35
    • No
      22

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  • Poll closed on 10/23/2020 at 08:23 AM

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There’s a huge problem with your neat demonstration of someone vaping whilst wearing a mask. A flaw that even my 4 year old would recognise. 

How, in any way, can you liken exhaling fine vapour through a face covering that is designed to be breathable, to someone inadvertently expelling larger droplets of saliva whilst coughing or sneezing?! Larger droplets are propelled further.

The majority people aren’t wearing masks because they fear for their lives or think it gives them 100% protection. Its because they are intelligent enough to accept that even supposing the net benefit it very marginal, it’s a simple, measured precaution we can all take. 

It's a very good demonstration of the benefits of masks actually. See how all the vape fumes are directed upwards towards the ceiling, away from other people? See how little of the fumes comes straight out at face height?

This video alone makes me think that everyone in the shops or indoor spaces wearing masks is a good thing. Thanks for posting it!

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It's a very good demonstration of the benefits of masks actually. See how all the vape fumes are directed upwards towards the ceiling, away from other people? See how little of the fumes comes straight out at face height?

This video alone makes me think that everyone in the shops or indoor spaces wearing masks is a good thing. Thanks for posting it!

It's still making the leap of faith between that and just what difference to infection rates it actually makes, especially when it comes to people capable of a little bit of very basic decency like not coughing and sneezing in peoples' faces. It's one part of the picture, it's certainly not the whole picture.

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It's still making the leap of faith between that and just what difference to infection rates it actually makes, especially when it comes to people capable of a little bit of very basic decency like not coughing and sneezing in peoples' faces. It's one part of the picture, it's certainly not the whole picture.

Right... but you know that international public health policy is not based on GIFs...

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I have just moved to Stockholm from the UK.

I am in absolute shock and disbelief.

WHY ARE THEY NOT SHOWING US THIS?

 

Why not...I guess there's no milage in a normal world in the media and scaring people gets people watching/reading which is key.  Thank goodness for the internet for all sorts of reasons.

What do people of Sweden make of what other countries are doing?

 

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To be fair I live in Scotland so we’ve not have the same appalling handling of the virus as other parts of the UK. Boris has just copied Scotland’s approaches throughout the whole situation.

People were being told to work from home and wear masks early doors up here and we didn’t have the daft “get back to work nonsense” that backfired after a few weeks. 
 

I just ignore the papers and tune in to the proper daily briefings we get up here. 

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Except burning witches at the stake is a HUGE departure from asking people to wear an item of PPE that’s worn by healthcare professionals.... particularly amidst a GLOBAL PANDEMIC!

Burnings are (slightly) more extreme reaction than destroying people livelyhoods, non covid health issues, social life and mental health but the mind set behind both is exactly the same. The UK at least for the moment is not in a pandemic situation as deathrateas are creepily normal right now which isn't reported much I know ( it could change again granted).

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There’s a huge problem with your neat demonstration of someone vaping whilst wearing a mask. A flaw that even my 4 year old would recognise. 

How, in any way, can you liken exhaling fine vapour through a face covering that is designed to be breathable, to someone inadvertently expelling larger droplets of saliva whilst coughing or sneezing?! Larger droplets are propelled further.

The majority people aren’t wearing masks because they fear for their lives or think it gives them 100% protection. Its because they are intelligent enough to accept that even supposing the net benefit it very marginal, it’s a simple, measured precaution we can all take. 

You are missing the point. Droplets are only a limited part of transmission. The real problem is aerosols, masks can not prevent aerosol transmission. 

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To be fair I live in Scotland so we’ve not have the same appalling handling of the virus as other parts of the UK. Boris has just copied Scotland’s approaches throughout the whole situation.

People were being told to work from home and wear masks early doors up here and we didn’t have the daft “get back to work nonsense” that backfired after a few weeks. 
 

I just ignore the papers and tune in to the proper daily briefings we get up here. 

Before you start boasting about how well Scotland has handled the pandemic the level of care home deaths is from covid-19 is higher in Scotland than any other part of the UK and is third to England and Spain in terms of the rate of excess deaths. Hardly a great endorsement of Sturgeon's handling of the pandemic. 

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You are missing the point. Droplets are only a limited part of transmission. The real problem is aerosols, masks can not prevent aerosol transmission. 

Dr John Campbell was talking about droplets ages ago before mask became omnipresent, and as they are heavier they don't remain as suspended in the air for long.  He also described how the aerosols will coalesce easier in a humid atmosphere to form (relatively) larger drops and then fall away.  If the atmosphere is drier like it is in Jan and Feb this is less likely to happen which in part explains why Flu often spreads easier in mid winter.

I wonder when the really cold weather comes how many folks will see that familiar condensation cloud the appears as you breathe out still appearing through a mask and wonder...hang on is that supposed to happen?

Edited by nightowl
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You are missing the point. Droplets are only a limited part of transmission. The real problem is aerosols, masks can not prevent aerosol transmission. 

You’re missing the point - I’m not saying masks or face cloverings are particularly effective. I’m saying the notion that they have no net benefit at all is non-sensical. How could anyone argue that covering the entrance to your airways has zero affect on the likelihood of you contracting a respiratory virus?!

I reckon the net benefit of them is small, but it makes sense to wear them for pretty obvious reasons. 

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Dr John Campbell was talking about droplets ages ago before mask became omnipresent, and as they are heavier they don't remain as suspended in the air for long.  He also described how the aerosols will coalesce easier in a humid atmosphere to form (relatively) larger drops and then fall away.  If the atmosphere is drier like it is in Jan and Feb this is less likely to happen which in part explains why Flu often spreads easier in mid winter.

I wonder when the really cold weather comes how many folks will see that familiar condensation cloud the appears as you breathe out still appearing through a mask and wonder...hang on is that supposed to happen?

You mean nurse John Campbell. 

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Dr John Campbell was talking about droplets ages ago before mask became omnipresent, and as they are heavier they don't remain as suspended in the air for long.  He also described how the aerosols will coalesce easier in a humid atmosphere to form (relatively) larger drops and then fall away.  If the atmosphere is drier like it is in Jan and Feb this is less likely to happen which in part explains why Flu often spreads easier in mid winter.

I wonder when the really cold weather comes how many folks will see that familiar condensation cloud the appears as you breathe out still appearing through a mask and wonder...hang on is that supposed to happen?

You can see the condensation if you've your own personal glazing system i.e. you wear glasses. I find the whole masks thing bizarre and only belatedly are we realising that the real problem is ventilation.

If aerosols and therefore poor ventilation are the problem then this is a major issue. We have spent the last 4 decades eliminating drafts to improve comfort and energy efficiency.

UK could be urged to keep windows open in effort to curb Covid-19

Scientists call for information campaign as evidence on role of poor ventilation mounts

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/24/uk-could-be-urged-to-keep-windows-open-in-effort-to-curb-covid-19-poor-ventilation

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You’re missing the point - I’m not saying masks or face cloverings are particularly effective. I’m saying the notion that they have no net benefit at all is non-sensical. How could anyone argue that covering the entrance to your airways has zero affect on the likelihood of you contracting a respiratory virus?!

I reckon the net benefit of them is small, but it makes sense to wear them for pretty obvious reasons. 

I don't understand your logic, masks don't really work but we should wear them anyway. The only obvious reason I can think of in such circumstances is virtue signalling.

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Why not...I guess there's no milage in a normal world in the media and scaring people gets people watching/reading which is key.  Thank goodness for the internet for all sorts of reasons.

What do people of Sweden make of what other countries are doing?

 

They joke about the hysteria... Life here is normal.

When I came here first 2 weeks ago I assumed there would be SOME kind of control. I had heard that the government was encouraging social distancing and some big events were cancelled. Christmas Market in Stockholm Old Town is indeed cancelled this year, but in every other way life is going on as usual here. No masks, no fear. The restaurants are mostly packed in the evenings. When the weather is pleasant everyone is out shopping and engaging in other activities. I think I've seen 5 people wear masks here in the last week and they were probably tourists.

Stay strong.

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I don't understand your logic, masks don't really work but we should wear them anyway. The only obvious reason I can think of in such circumstances is virtue signalling.

At no point have I said they don’t work, however I would acknowledge that their effectiveness varies greatly depending on the circumstances.

My company are asking people to wear masks whilst sharing vehicles. To me, if one has covid then the other guy is frankly doomed if they are spending a shift together, regardless of them both wearing face coverings. In a retail setting however, I don’t think anyone could argue that a mask would offer some added protection.

The beef I have is people blowing this measure out of proportion as if it’s completely irrational. It’s a sensible, measured precaution that is inexpensive and easy to follow. Even if you don’t believe they work, why not give others a little piece of mind? You don’t know what underlying conditions people have so why risk impacting their health even if the risk is incredibly small? 
 

Refusing to wear a mask in a shop is just petulant. Where I live I seldom see people without masks on, but it’s no surprise it’s always younger people that aren’t complying.

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I don't understand your logic, masks don't really work but we should wear them anyway. The only obvious reason I can think of in such circumstances is virtue signalling.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/23/universal-mask-use-could-save-130000-lives-by-the-end-of-february-new-modeling-study-says/

As unsurprising as their conclusion is, it can still be useful to say it.

“We don’t need a model to tell us that we should all be wearing masks, we don’t need a model to tell us that if we continue the way we’re going, we’re going to see tens of thousands more deaths within the next couple of months,”


 

https://www.slashgear.com/scientists-say-high-quality-fabric-face-masks-are-needed-to-slow-pandemic-23644105/

Any face mask is better than no face mask at all,


 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/23/health/fauci-covid-mask-mandate-bn/index.html

"Well, if people are not wearing masks, then maybe we should be mandating it," Fauci told CNN's Erin Burnett Friday.

 

With the greatest respect Mr Preacherman, you don't half talk a lot of crap.  Masks do work to help stop the spread of the virus.  Yes not every mask will provide 100% protection, but as in link number two...

 

Any face mask is better than no face mask at all 

 

If you don't understand that simple fact than god help you

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I don’t believe preacherman and other naysayers of masks believe they are entirely ineffective, but rather they feel the benefits are so small minuscule that it should be their choice to wear one. 

My little girl asks “why’s he/she not wearing a mask?” when we are in shops. It it’s an individual I tend to say “some people struggle to breathe with masks”. If it’s an entire family out on a jolly at the weekend I just explain some people are selfish.

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I don’t believe preacherman and other naysayers of masks believe they are entirely ineffective, but rather they feel the benefits are so small minuscule that it should be their choice to wear one. 

My little girl asks “why’s he/she not wearing a mask?” when we are in shops. It it’s an individual I tend to say “some people struggle to breathe with masks”. If it’s an entire family out on a jolly at the weekend I just explain some people are selfish.

On the other side of the coin there is the fact they are annoying to wear (although not the end of the world by any means) but its not really that issue thats the real problem with them.  It how it become a way to judge people for not being good citizens and making up the pettiest rules which opens the pandoras box jobsworths and Karens.  Having to wear one to walk to a seat in a pub/restaurant to then take it off anyway is bizarre when you think about it!

My barbers was warned about it by the local council gestapo and I feel so sorry for someone with their own business after allready being hit has to be burdened with these threats.... and all based on a very limited solution to a pandemic.

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"Not wearing a mask" is not on this list....

study-reveals-hypertension-and-obesity-a

(Obesity and hypertension are intimately connected)

What kind of approaches have been made towards dealing with these scientifically unarguable  facts of such great significance, compared to wear mask wear mask?

F*ck all and you know it.

 

My barbers was warned about it by the local council gestapo and I feel so sorry for someone with their own business after allready being hit has to be burdened with these threats.... and all based on a very limited solution to a pandemic.

Roll on the rushed, unlicensed, liability free vaccine. Those guys are definitely in the top 10 priority list. Last time it was NHS staff (Pandemrix).

“I remember vividly we were all lined up in the corridor and we were told we had to have it. It wasn’t a choice,” she claimed. “I was pressured into it. We were given no information.”

You couldn't catch "jewishness" in Germany 1930s. This time around they are not going to be exempt from their own world.

Edited by Arpeggio
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Masks, inside crowded places, including work spaces a mask makes good sense..... protect others aswell as self...nobody should worry about wearing a mask in places where others do not tread.....long beaches, long walks, walks in woods, places in the back and beyond.....nobody cares, nobody to infect, nobody to be infected.;)

 

 

 

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Masks, inside crowded places, including work spaces a mask makes good sense..... protect others aswell as self...nobody should worry about wearing a mask in places where others do not tread.....long beaches, long walks, walks in woods, places in the back and beyond.....nobody cares, nobody to infect, nobody to be infected.;)

There were some areas (not the uk - yet) that did mandate them in the oddest places outside including the street and the beach somewhere or other.  Totally mad.

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There were some areas (not the uk - yet) that did mandate them in the oddest places outside including the street and the beach somewhere or other.  Totally mad.

My issue is not so much that....they often wear them with noses over  top or mask or hanging from chin....it is work meetings, or offices where masks are optional or not used at all, behind closed doors, distancing is hit and miss, looking over shoulder got to show you this.....a game we are all playing, some play by the rules others don't, sometimes the rules themselves are stupid in the name of health and safety.....when not healthy or safe.;)

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My issue is not so much that....they often wear them with noses over  top or mask or hanging from chin....it is work meetings, or offices where masks are optional or not used at all, behind closed doors, distancing is hit and miss, looking over shoulder got to show you this.....a game we are all playing, some play by the rules others don't, sometimes the rules themselves are stupid in the name of health and safety.....when not healthy or safe.;)

Ah the rules.  For some people the fact there are rules and they need to be imposed on others is a more dominant reason for mask wearing than any science although many wouldnt admit it or even realise it actually. 

It is a bit of a theme on HPC which surprises me in some ways.

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