Huggy Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Never had a problem with chatty people on the train. Is this a Northern thing? I've been commuting for years and never met 'Mr Chatty' Damn. I must be well unlucky. The buffet cars especially were full of the noisy and opinionated c#nts continuously making statements about everything to "add value". Not even pretending to be a friendly chat. Pr!cks 😠 The tube was more sombre as you would expect. That was better apart from there being lots of people. So it was actually worse. A lot more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Damn. I must be well unlucky. The buffet cars especially were full of the noisy and opinionated c#nts continuously making statements about everything to "add value". Not even pretending to be a friendly chat. Pr!cks 😠 Different trains then, the commuter trains around my way are ever more spartan two coach things, no luxuries like a buffet car (not that they're on long enough runs to need one). Even most of the longer distance trains seem to have lost them now though, you get a trolley which can't keep water hot enough for a decent cup of tea, if you're lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 i would love to go back to the office, but i was always getting interviewed by HR asking if i really was happy in the office. i`m sure other office works felt i was disruptive and treated it like a school environment. 60% of overheard conversations were about houses mind so can`t think why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy T Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Not a dream a reality for those that made the dream into a reality....not everyone cup of tea. Very many offices do not have windows to open, are very stuffy, no natural light, artificial air conditioning and you wouldn't know if it was winter or summer outside......cost a fortune each year to get there each day....and a fortune in child care......could never pick a child up from school or give them tea.......rinse and repeat five days a week.......costs double or more during school holidays, the time when all those with children want to spend time with their children, cant have most of an office on holiday at the same time......pecking order. .....then have left school and missed childhood completely......valuable time can never get back. Of course there are benefits to home working for some, but the extra energy costs over winter are going to cripple some people on average salaries. Employers should pay those costs, should not be case that the employee ends up being out of pocket and thats ok because of the perceived benefits of WFH from the employers viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Yay, the dream of never having to set foot outside your house, never having to talk to another human being. Hurrah for isolation and loneliness! What the hell has happened to people? I'm not exactly Mr Sociable but jesus... Just remember that HPC is not representative of the whole country, and people who comment on these threads aren't necessarily even representative of HPC. I fundamentally disagree with you @Riedquat as you know regarding "time savers", where I think the ability to (say) pay by contactless, or fill in a form online instead of queuing at a post office, are beneficial. But I absolutely agree with you that the purpose of this is to give more time for the interactions with people that I like (such as time with friends and family, or work colleagues) instead of the boring chore interactions - not to remove interactions. I am extrovert though of course, and I can appreciate that for an introvert (presumably half the population) the idea of being able to reduce human interactions to near zero must sound perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Probably a bit rich of me to complain when you say you agree, but even a certain level of "chore" interactions are good IMO - just ordinary, everyday things that happen to involve other human beings is good and necessary for a healthy society (mentally for the individuals in it, and for the overall society). But that can most certainly be limited to a "Good morning Mr Riedquat", it most certainly doesn't have to include the chatty man on the train. I don't mind if he says "hello" as long as he takes the hint when all he gets back is a brief "hello." So maybe we are agreeing, at least to an extent. I'm pretty much an introvert oddly enough, I need a great deal of time to myself, and I also don't like stress, rushing, and being hectic, which oddly enough may be why I appreciate the commute (as long as it's not too long) - there's absolutely no other pressure, or any other demand going on at that time. At any rate though I do prefer the idea of a world that isn't in a rush to save time all the time, and where things are mostly done by human beings and our interactions are with human beings rather than machines doing things for us (clearly up to a point, it's not as if I'd prefer to be a caveman). All of that's probably not worded very well, I've not yet found a good way of getting across what I feel on this. Edited November 12, 2020 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop321 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Of course there are benefits to home working for some, but the extra energy costs over winter are going to cripple some people on average salaries. Employers should pay those costs, should not be case that the employee ends up being out of pocket and thats ok because of the perceived benefits of WFH from the employers viewpoint. I would say staying at home saved me £3k in petrol and although I was senior enough to have parking under the building it saved many staff on ‘average salaries’ the £8 a day parking (that’s almost £2k). Alternatively the train was £12 a day....but the worst and most unreliable journey ever and £5 parking at our local train station. My fuel bill I guess was £800 more rounding up. Plus my week would be 38 hours a week rather than 50 hours a week. Seriously it’s all about your starting point on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Of course there are benefits to home working for some, but the extra energy costs over winter are going to cripple some people on average salaries. Employers should pay those costs, should not be case that the employee ends up being out of pocket and thats ok because of the perceived benefits of WFH from the employers viewpoint. You what? If anyone's finances are so precarious they need to be able to walk to a job, & a major benefit is keeping warm at work, then they need to really rethink their situation. What would they do in the event of a major unexpected bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56237586 "People are keen to return to the office because working from home has left many "fatigued", says a boss at Britain's biggest office and retail complex." Or, owner of an office says people like working in offices...... Looks like I'll be moving back to the office if everything goes well with the vaccines in September I'm hearing, and it won't be anywhere near full time thankfully. During this time in lockdown, I would have saved c£12,000 and 40 full days of travel. Whatever additional cost I may have spent by WFH, this covers it and more! I almost feel a bit annoyed this country's done so impeccably well in the pandemic and will be 'getting back to normal' pretty quickly. Another 12 months WFH would've gone down a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Huggy said: I almost feel a bit annoyed this country's done so impeccably well in the pandemic and will be 'getting back to normal' pretty quickly. Another 12 months WFH would've gone down a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Huggy said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56237586 "People are keen to return to the office because working from home has left many "fatigued", says a boss at Britain's biggest office and retail complex." Or, owner of an office says people like working in offices...... Looks like I'll be moving back to the office if everything goes well with the vaccines in September I'm hearing, and it won't be anywhere near full time thankfully. During this time in lockdown, I would have saved c£12,000 and 40 full days of travel. Whatever additional cost I may have spent by WFH, this covers it and more! I almost feel a bit annoyed this country's done so impeccably well in the pandemic and will be 'getting back to normal' pretty quickly. Another 12 months WFH would've gone down a treat. Whilst I've not changed my negative view of WFH in the slightest I rather suspect ulterior motives in this particular case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greater Fool Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Huggy said: I almost feel a bit annoyed this country's done so impeccably well in the pandemic and will be 'getting back to normal' pretty quickly. Another 12 months WFH would've gone down a treat. I know what you mean, there is a serious danger there may be a Christmas "doo" this year. I wake up in sweats about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tiger131 said: I know what you mean, there is a serious danger there may be a Christmas "doo" this year. I wake up in sweats about it. 😱🤮 24 extra months lockdown please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprite Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Huggy said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56237586 "People are keen to return to the office because working from home has left many "fatigued", says a boss at Britain's biggest office and retail complex." Or, owner of an office says people like working in offices...... Looks like I'll be moving back to the office if everything goes well with the vaccines in September I'm hearing, and it won't be anywhere near full time thankfully. During this time in lockdown, I would have saved c£12,000 and 40 full days of travel. Whatever additional cost I may have spent by WFH, this covers it and more! I almost feel a bit annoyed this country's done so impeccably well in the pandemic and will be 'getting back to normal' pretty quickly. Another 12 months WFH would've gone down a treat. I will admit recently I have felt fatigued/fed up and had less motivation however this was more to do with the lockdown restrictions than WFH. Having said that, I do miss my colleagues and WFH does have it's downsides. I've been told that the office should be opening up in July but my company is just abiding by government guidelines. I think I'll be back around September or October. I can't complain too much since the lockdown and WFH has allowed me to save a ridiculous amount of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAJob3 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Riedquat said: Whilst I've not changed my negative view of WFH in the slightest I rather suspect ulterior motives in this particular case... Bosses at my place can't wait to get us all back to the office. Complaining about the lack of communication with each other and lack of team work. Hah funny. I have to be back in the office to work with all my colleagues asap. .... who have replaced all the people who used to work in our office, now working from Philipines and India - working for the outsourcing company that replaced all my colleagues! ... the same cheerleading managers who wanted to get rid of all the expensive UK staff, 'coz they could get 2 for 1. (shame they only do 1/4 of the work...) UK (mis)management at its best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Riedquat said: Whilst I've not changed my negative view of WFH in the slightest I rather suspect ulterior motives in this particular case... He certainly puts the VI in COVID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, BobAJob3 said: Bosses at my place can't wait to get us all back to the office. Complaining about the lack of communication with each other and lack of team work. Hah funny. I have to be back in the office to work with all my colleagues asap. .... who have replaced all the people who used to work in our office, now working from Philipines and India - working for the outsourcing company that replaced all my colleagues! ... the same cheerleading managers who wanted to get rid of all the expensive UK staff, 'coz they could get 2 for 1. (shame they only do 1/4 of the work...) UK (mis)management at its best. Sounds like the sort of boss that makes working from home seem appealing. Doesn't change my overall view of it but I can easily imagine that anything might seem worthwhile to avoid a crappy boss and lousy working environment (the latter being the biggest problem I've got, as that's got worse and worse over the years, sorry, "modernised" - just as well the people are still good!) That said teamwork is a hell of a lot easier when you're there in person I found, during the couple of months I was having to work from home. I agree with comments I've seen elsewhere that say "working from home" should be called "living at work." Edited March 1, 2021 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, BobAJob3 said: Bosses at my place can't wait to get us all back to the office. Complaining about the lack of communication with each other and lack of team work. Hah funny. I have to be back in the office to work with all my colleagues asap. .... who have replaced all the people who used to work in our office, now working from Philipines and India - working for the outsourcing company that replaced all my colleagues! ... the same cheerleading managers who wanted to get rid of all the expensive UK staff, 'coz they could get 2 for 1. (shame they only do 1/4 of the work...) UK (mis)management at its best. God my company is going through this now. Replacing 2 for 1 software engineers in Poland. Some of the younger staff have secured new jobs already on more money so makes you think the company was getting people cheap anyway before the restructuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 49 minutes ago, Shamus said: God my company is going through this now. Replacing 2 for 1 software engineers in Poland. Some of the younger staff have secured new jobs already on more money so makes you think the company was getting people cheap anyway before the restructuring. There seems to be an international exchange rate for software engineers - (not entertaining any racist interpretations) 2-for 1 from E Europe 3-for 1 from SE Asia 4-for 1 from India Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobAJob3 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 39 minutes ago, Shamus said: God my company is going through this now. Replacing 2 for 1 software engineers in Poland. Some of the younger staff have secured new jobs already on more money so makes you think the company was getting people cheap anyway before the restructuring. Lol - good luck! And before anyone accuses me of racism, that's nothing to do with it. Once you've factored in different time zones, cultures, expectations, different employment laws, and, paying the third party company for supplying the "cheap" staff - who ultimately you, as a customer, have no control over, other than just "firing" them - after the dwindling pool of onshore staff have just spent six months "training" them.... Even before covid, I used to go and sit in a semi-empty office and think why bother making the effort to travel, just so some halfwit could say he was "managing" a group of people. What makes a management team, who can't even manage staff "working from home" think they can then manage staff all over the world? The mind boggles. Back on topic, I think on balance I've just about broken even working from home - electric bill up 40%, gas bill 25%, more at the supermarket. But, less on petrol and junk food at lunchtime. Needless to say when asked whether I was missing being in the office I replied diplomatically 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I'm hoping that from June I can adopt a pattern of working part-time, 4 days per week, 2 in the office and 2 at home. Would seem to be a nice work/life, home/office balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop321 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Riedquat said: Sounds like the sort of boss that makes working from home seem appealing. Doesn't change my overall view of it but I can easily imagine that anything might seem worthwhile to avoid a crappy boss and lousy working environment (the latter being the biggest problem I've got, as that's got worse and worse over the years, sorry, "modernised" - just as well the people are still good!) That said teamwork is a hell of a lot easier when you're there in person I found, during the couple of months I was having to work from home. I agree with comments I've seen elsewhere that say "working from home" should be called "living at work." I worked from home (and occasionally a very local branch outlet) for 5 years and it was brilliant. Basically I could do 8:15 to 6:15 each day and still enjoy summer evenings The issue is depends on the job. My was finance and I attended 7/8 ‘FaceTime’ type conference calls, committees, governance meetings, approvals, brochure sign offs, product changes etc etc every single day. I ran a team and my boss never needed to know where I was because my diary and output was self evident. Where it fell apart was some colleagues would attend 4 meetings a week and the rest of their time was ‘admin’. They were never around when you needed them and I insisted on Friday meetings just to make the point because no one was around. The way to truly manage home working is to ensure the role is busy enough and has enough outputs to avoid ‘drifters’ Before home working...I would drive an hour to Leeds put on a headset all day in a noisy office (often having to ask others to quieten down) then drive an hour home at 6 not get home until 7, and catch up on emails I have missed whilst commuting. And if things kicked off eg system broke (maybe three times a year) and I needed to stay very late eg until 7/8pm then it was a pleasure. I could support, lead and resolve and be watching a film by 8:30pm It’s horses for courses and very much depends on the role, but home working probably doubled my productivity and the cost savings (even allowing for heating) was massive....a huge motivator for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 17 hours ago, Riedquat said: Whilst I've not changed my negative view of WFH in the slightest I rather suspect ulterior motives in this particular case... Out of four firms I do work for 3 have had the conversation about people migrating back to the office "from June or when regulations allow", all financial services in London. Feeling chatting to management is while there are a set x who "make it work" as time has gone on for the majority it's been a pain in the... With trying to form meetings and get projects done clearly hindered. Personally I think part of it has been the last couple of months with schools off. Nightmare for parents and unrealistic to expect them to be fully available 8 to 6 If this ended last June bet is they would be more flexible wfh going foward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Interesting topic and posts. I have worked for home for years, my experience is that it’s a compromise and while it helps the family’s it costs the worker. At some point each company is bought out or goes through cost saving and it’s always the home worker that gets cut. Also, people can’t see the extra work done in the evenings. I would say it’s better for role with fixed deliverables where you can prove the output. It’s not good for mental health as 8 hours alone every day takes a toll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 14 hours ago, Tiger131 said: I know what you mean, there is a serious danger there may be a Christmas "doo" this year. I wake up in sweats about it. "Fun is the one thing that money can't buy" - Lennon-McCartney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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