Will the official retirement age soon be 75

[markyh]

 

They quoted 68 to me as a 42yo

I would not be surprised if 70 was the next marker.

I only have 17 years of paye qualifying years though. And never had a private pension. If I do manage to work again I will need to pay 500 a month into one at least.

What happens to your mums house when she departs us? Back to the council? (like my mums), or do you inherit solely, or have to share with siblings?

[markyh]

 

 

 Despite never actually contributing.

You can move here at 60, from an EU country or as a “refugee” having never contributed and then when it comes to state retirement age, you get a small state pension topped up to the full amount by pension tax credit and housing benefit.  Note: being on pension tax credit opens the door to other benefits such as council tax relief.

It’s these loopholes that should be closed before they do anything that affects those of us who actually contribute.

Totally true and i am embaressed to say happens in my own family with my feckless in-laws from South Africa who have been living with us since Q2 2019. 

Mother in law is late 60's, never worked a day in her life in the UK, but came over here full time in 2014 and claimed her UK Passport. Born in Scotland but left for SA when she was 4.  took her a few months to get her passport then as a citizen instantly retired at 63 on £0 pension topped up to full pension via pension credit. 

Her younger (early sixties but useless) husband arrived in 2016 on a 5 year spousal visa. He has never managed to work full time, always in and out of agency jobs with poor health, and he realised very quickly he is not compeating for jobs with poorly educated blacks anymore, but younger well educated eastern european's and brits. 

They managed to last from Sept 2016 to May 2019 before getting overwhelmed with living costs, health issues and underemployment.  Hate to think how much they have cost the NHS since 2014, both have chronic illnesses and al least two major surgeries including a heart bypass. Way way more than the £400 they paid for NHS access.

Father in law is now in the process of applying for ILTR now, and then full uk passport in the next few years to also retire on full tax credit pension within 5 years. In the mean time we seem to be stuck with them. All they ever do is shuffle down when i have prepared the evening meal and complain whenever they have issues with Sky Q TV going on the blink and theirs is a mini working off the internet, and not very reliable. 

But what amazes me is they will happily sit at the family dinner table for a Sunday roast and bad mouth all the "darky imigrants / illegals" ruining the country and putting a strain on the NHS etc.  When they really annoy me i remind them they are no different. You can hear from the nashing of teeth they hate it and feel entitled due to their colour and heritage.

[NobodyInParticular]

3 hours ago, winkie said:

Many do......some can't bring themselves to retire, not always a lack of money issue, more about no longer having a job to go to, something that still makes them feel worthwhile and valuable in the community.....nobody is indispensable, everyone is replaceable.....many retired people still act as if they are still working, can't easily let go......like giving up anything, for example; how many should but refuse to accept they need to let go of their car.

In academia many actually enjoy the subject they've dedicated their life to and simply haven't finished their life's work.

[winkie]

 

In academia many actually enjoy the subject they've dedicated their life to and simply haven't finished their life's work.

Fair dues, perhaps they can write a book about it.

[longgone]

 

What happens to your mums house when she departs us? Back to the council? (like my mums), or do you inherit solely, or have to share with siblings?

Council ? No it's privately owned last one sold 1.3m  not much divided by 3 after duties really 

I don't count my future on Inheritance.

[longgone]

 

 

No close to 35, actually it is 31 years.

The way that worked is that I did some summer work aged 15 and that was counted, the Government used to send out NI numbers at 15 and 9 month, so I just snuck in there.

I was then sponsored through University by an Engineering firm (a year out before hand  and a 4 year Masters). I had some summer and out of term earnings plus a small bursary. But at that time, the Government also used to count being in full time education as a contributing year.

That said, I've more than paid that back in tax and NI over the years.

But in practice I've only worked properly for 24 years, but I have 6 years more contributions.

 

>>>>>>Post Script <<<<<<

Of course, the Government has pinched 2 years back by raising the State Pension age. That isn't really the issue for me though, of more concern is that I may not be able to leverage some addition efficiencies on my personal pension fund until 57, rather than 55. 

Certainly was looking to take the 25% tax free and then plug that into an ISA several years in a row.

In theory all the state pension boxes ticked for you but who knows what's going to happen with it. Good that you  could  claim while in education.  strangely I have 17 years accounted for yet only worked about 11 years in total.

My mother only had 20 something years and she has only lost £50 a month from the full state pension. Not that it does much £330 a month goes out as council tax right back to them.

[shlomo]

 

Council ? No it's privately owned last one sold 1.3m  not much divided by 3 after duties really 

I don't count my future on Inheritance.

What part of the country are you living in now?

[jiltedjen]

Does university count towards a qualifying year for state pension? 

[NobodyInParticular]

8 hours ago, longgone said:

Council ? No it's privately owned last one sold 1.3m  not much divided by 3 after duties really 

Most people wouldn't dismiss several hundred thousand as 'not much'.

[Greater Fool]

 

Most people wouldn't dismiss several hundred thousand as 'not much'.

It's about 25-30 years of net income (after expenses, not including mortgage) for the average UK wage slave.

[Greater Fool]

 

Does university count towards a qualifying year for state pension? 

No it does not, what happened was that after SERPS was abolished they converted SERPS payments into additional years towards the 35 years full flat rate requirement. Hence why some people seem to have additional years which they can't account for. We all know this was a rip off as people who won't get the full flat rate pension because they don't have 35 years will get it topped up with pension credits anyway.

[NobodyInParticular]

 

No it does not, what happened was that after SERPS was abolished they converted SERPS payments into additional years towards the 35 years full flat rate requirement. Hence why some people seem to have additional years which they can't account for. We all know this was a rip off as people who won't get the full flat rate pension because they don't have 35 years will get it topped up with pension credits anyway.

Only if they have no other pension. If you imagine a female doctor who took time off to raise children (I know such a person) then you are looking at under 35 years. They won't be getting pension credit.

[NobodyInParticular]

 

Universities could buy in pension years, indeed individuals could also by over paying. I started paying in at 28 but would have had 40 years at 60 as i was overpaying. A colleague who retired in 2010 with 20 odd years in was advised by his accountant to pay his entire final years salary in as over payment (cannot do that now) as he would get the lot back afer onlu a few years of his pension.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about overpayments.

[NobodyInParticular]

 

School had three voluntary severances go through last week (all of them have consultancy jobs waiting), that means that, funnily enough i (at 55) am now both the oldest and longest serving member of staff out of 80 academics in our school at the moment (discounting the odd one who moved into administration). To be honest if my ex had not run off with the best 1/2 of my pension i would go at 60 at the latest. Probably be emeritus and do the research i enjoy.

perhaps in Oxbridge.. otherwise management finds ways.

I am sorry it's not an option due to the divorce as that sounds like it would have been very good.

[NuBrit]

 

Just checking that everyone is aware of a few loopholes:

Live on benefits (maybe do the magic 16 hours on min wage so don’t earn enough to contribute NI or income tax) - the state pays your NI stamp for you, so you still have full entitlement to state pension.  If you are living in the state pension only, you get statutory right to housing benefit.

You could do the above, then move back to an Eastern European country and still claim the full U.K. state pension, in a country where that 8 ish k a year goes a lot further.  Despite never actually contributing.

You can move here at 60, from an EU country or as a “refugee” having never contributed and then when it comes to state retirement age, you get a small state pension topped up to the full amount by pension tax credit and housing benefit.  Note: being on pension tax credit opens the door to other benefits such as council tax relief.

It’s these loopholes that should be closed before they do anything that affects those of us who actually contribute.

What you're describing is possible in practice, but it's simply not going to happen in the vast, vast majority of cases. While I am sure there is a tiny minority of EU folks who will certainly try to game the system, it would be anathematic for most people to stay here for 35 years on benefits just to qualify for what is really a very poor pension. Can you imagine having to survive for 35 miserable years on benefits before you are entitled to live out your years on your equally miserable pension?

Anyway, it's a moot point as none of what you're suggesting is borne out our unemployment statistics which show that UK born citizens have a higher rate of unemployment than EU citizens.

[NuBrit]

Getting back to the topic on hand, I cannot see how the state pension age can increase much beyond 68. At that age physical ability is in rapid decline, eyesight weakening, mental dexterity is starting to slow. Life expectancy can help us live longer, but it cannot slow the decay that old age wields on the human body. 

Also, pension provision in this country is a joke. Half of people have nothing, the majority of the remainder are in defined contribution systems and are provisioning far lower than what a comfortable retirement requires. The door has shut on the vast majority of defined benefit plans, and those that are still in existence are becoming more stringent.

I do not know what will happen in the future, but my guess is that politicians will take the easiest route out. They will not increase the pension age, or cut the amount paid, there will be too much voter push back. I think they will go into full-on print the money mode.

If you guys thinking the Pound is worthless now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

[Mancunian284]

“Anyway, it's a moot point as none of what you're suggesting is borne out our unemployment statistics which show that UK born citizens have a higher rate of unemployment than EU citizens.”

The unemployment figures count you as employed if you are working 16 hours a week on minimum wage (not earning enough to pay NI or IT).  If you have 2 children then your take home is just under 2k per month, due to the generous benefits for those with children.  It’s a 2 tier benefit system - you get buggar all if you are childless but our benefits system is generous to those with children.

 

Also, EU citizens overall have a higher rate of employment than U.K. born.  However, when it’s broken down to country of origin, Eastern European’s are more likely to claim benefits than U.K. born.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Mancunian284
Typo

[NobodyInParticular]

8 hours ago, Mancunian284 said:

“Anyway, it's a moot point as none of what you're suggesting is borne out our unemployment statistics which show that UK born citizens have a higher rate of unemployment than EU citizens.”

The unemployment figures count you as employed if you are working 16 hours a week on minimum wage (not earning enough to pay NI or IT).  If you have 2 children then your take home is just under 2k per month, due to the generous benefits for those with children.  It’s a 2 tier benefit system - you get buggar all if you are childless but our benefits system is generous to those with children.

Immigrants are less likely to be on ant sort of benefit, though.

8 hours ago, Mancunian284 said:

Also, EU citizens overall have a higher rate of employment than U.K. born.  However, when it’s broken down to country of origin, Eastern European’s are more likely to claim benefits than U.K. born.

Citation?

[NobodyInParticular]

8 hours ago, Mancunian284 said:

“Anyway, it's a moot point as none of what you're suggesting is borne out our unemployment statistics which show that UK born citizens have a higher rate of unemployment than EU citizens.”

The unemployment figures count you as employed if you are working 16 hours a week on minimum wage (not earning enough to pay NI or IT).  If you have 2 children then your take home is just under 2k per month, due to the generous benefits for those with children.  It’s a 2 tier benefit system - you get buggar all if you are childless but our benefits system is generous to those with children.

 

Also, EU citizens overall have a higher rate of employment than U.K. born.  However, when it’s broken down to country of origin, Eastern European’s are more likely to claim benefits than U.K. born.

Old, but some relevance:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/17/eastern-european-uk-migrants

The report concludes that the unemployment rate among workers from A8 countries was around 5% during the third quarter of 2009, when the recession was at its nadir, compared with 7.8% among UK-born workers

...

But, despite often being highly skilled, more than half end up in low-paid jobs, compared with 18% of native-born workers

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by NobodyInParticular

[debtlessmanc]

 

Old, but some relevance:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/17/eastern-european-uk-migrants

The report concludes that the unemployment rate among workers from A8 countries was around 5% during the third quarter of 2009, when the recession was at its nadir, compared with 7.8% among UK-born workers

...

But, despite often being highly skilled, more than half end up in low-paid jobs, compared with 18% of native-born workers

 

This is like the stories of Russian New York Taxi drivers joining in discussions on String theory with Profs from Columbia university (their fares) in the 1990's

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/12/nyregion/for-emigre-scientists-job-hunting-is-difficult.html

it is a symptom of a poor but high-education-valuing population emigrating to a established wealthy western countries. If you allowed thousands of out of work cosmologists to emigrate to the UK it would not really boost cosmology much as the few established chairs in that subject are occupied long term and the available paying jobs are picking cabbages or driving cabs. The effect it does  have is that every cosmologt chair gets 1000's of applications and home grown folk with the intelligence and motivation for the subject will be put off trying to study it. As a UK born STEM graduate i went into the subject that still had some UK industry in at the time. Now i would just go into the city as many of colleagues from that era did. This of course leads to universities needing to hire from abroad, that it is to some extent cause and effect seems lost on some people.

The rather depressing post script of this is that the countries of origin have education devalued to them and their culture changes.

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by debtlessmanc

[debtlessmanc]

 

Getting back to the topic on hand, I cannot see how the state pension age can increase much beyond 68. At that age physical ability is in rapid decline, eyesight weakening, mental dexterity is starting to slow. Life expectancy can help us live longer, but it cannot slow the decay that old age wields on the human body. 

Also, pension provision in this country is a joke. Half of people have nothing, the majority of the remainder are in defined contribution systems and are provisioning far lower than what a comfortable retirement requires. The door has shut on the vast majority of defined benefit plans, and those that are still in existence are becoming more stringent.

I do not know what will happen in the future, but my guess is that politicians will take the easiest route out. They will not increase the pension age, or cut the amount paid, there will be too much voter push back. I think they will go into full-on print the money mode.

If you guys thinking the Pound is worthless now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Every country with a strong currency is in the same position, race to the bottom

Edited October 6, 2020 by debtlessmanc

[Mancunian284]

 

Old, but some relevance:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/17/eastern-european-uk-migrants

The report concludes that the unemployment rate among workers from A8 countries was around 5% during the third quarter of 2009, when the recession was at its nadir, compared with 7.8% among UK-born workers

...

But, despite often being highly skilled, more than half end up in low-paid jobs, compared with 18% of native-born workers

 

You realise that the benefits system doesn’t just pay out to the unemployed?

 

Being in low paid work means not only not earning enough to contribute a noticeable amount of NI and IT but also means being eligible for in work benefits, particularly if you have children.  The amount received in in work benefits is more than the amount paid in NI and NT, making them net takers from the system.

[spyguy]

 

Old, but some relevance:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/17/eastern-european-uk-migrants

The report concludes that the unemployment rate among workers from A8 countries was around 5% during the third quarter of 2009, when the recession was at its nadir, compared with 7.8% among UK-born workers

...

But, despite often being highly skilled, more than half end up in low-paid jobs, compared with 18% of native-born workers

 

The A8 will be in prime working age - late 20s to early 50s.

You also might get some self selection - the more motivated leaving the home country.

The natives will cover a much wider age range - 16 -> 65.

Cindering those factors than that unemployment rate is very very high.

 

[skinnylattej]

 

"Getting back to the topic on hand, I cannot see how the state pension age can increase much beyond 68. At that age physical ability is in rapid decline, eyesight weakening, mental dexterity is starting to slow. Life expectancy can help us live longer, but it cannot slow the decay that old age wields on the human body. "

True, and this leads to the limitations of risk with older workers,  one division of the company where I used to work ushered the over 68's to the door as the company insurance did not cover employees over 68.

Some professional liability insurance runs out at 68.

[jiltedjen]

i suppose the argument is those at 68 in 30 years time will be in much better condition than todays 68 year old