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Tens of thousands of British expats in Europe 'will be stripped of their UK bank accounts and credit cards in weeks


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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8752653/British-expats-Europe-stripped-UK-bank-accounts-weeks-post-Brexit-rules.html

Tens of thousands of British expats who live in Europe risk having their UK bank accounts closed 'in weeks' due to post-Brexit rules.

Lloyds, Barclays and Coutts are among a number of UK banks that have starting giving notice to expatriate customers to say they will close their accounts at 11pm on December 31 

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4 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

So does this affect EU nationals resident here with bank accounts in the EU. Or is it only UK banks doing this to non residents?

I imagine there are huge numbers of EU nationals living in the UK with bank accounts at home too.

I would guess that the shares in challenger banks would crash, that is my opinion and  i have no training in finance and mostly talk shit.

In answer to your question yes it should, if we have any EU people on here would love to know if you have been contacted by UK financial banks.  

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12 minutes ago, shlomo said:

I would guess that the shares in challenger banks would crash, that is my opinion and  i have no training in finance and mostly talk shit.

In answer to your question yes it should, if we have any EU people on here would love to know if you have been contacted by UK financial banks.  

Isn’t it more likely to be EU banks contacting them as they live here but have an account in France, Poland or Romania etc

Does it also apply say to Ireland - must be a lot of Irish people resident in the UK including NI who have euro accounts with AIB, Bank of Ireland or Ulster bank held in the Republic of Ireland. Or have we negotiated a separate deal with them as on pension transfers etc.

 

Edited by MARTINX9
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1 minute ago, MARTINX9 said:

Isn’t it more likely to be EU banks contacting them as they live here but have an account in France, Poland or Romania etc

Does it also apply say to Ireland - must be a lot of Irish people resident in the UK or NI who have euro accounts with AIB, Bank of Ireland or Ulster bank held in the Republic of Ireland. Or have we negotiated a separate deal with them as on pension transfers etc.

 

Actually you are right, i do not think we have negotiated anything.

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The problem here is that expats didn’t bother opening a bank account in the country they had moved to I think. Pensioners using their expats account the same way they’d have used a local one due to the passport arrangements. Pensions were paid into these accounts and the bank was offering the exchange rate I think. Now for them the choice is to open a bank account where they live and move the money there every month. As per the EUs living here, most of them have or had a job and for that you need a British bank account. UK firms cannot pay a salary to a French account e.g. So no problem at all. 
 

If I am interpreting this the right way problems might arise with people in Ireland. I know folks living in Dublin getting paid in £ to their NI accounts. 

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Is this really a big deal?

 

Surely most normal people would have just opened a local bank account, when they moved to a new country.

 

Surely these people were actually getting completely screwed by bank charges from exchanging between currencies.

 

Closing their accounts is probably doing them a favour!

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10 minutes ago, reddog said:

Is this really a big deal?

 

Surely most normal people would have just opened a local bank account, when they moved to a new country.

 

Surely these people were actually getting completely screwed by bank charges from exchanging between currencies.

 

Closing their accounts is probably doing them a favour!

Of course perhaps they were using their UK account and credit card when visiting the UK and a Euro account (or their local currency) where they now live for convenience - to avoid said charges.

Could quite easily affect many EU nationals living here who do the same thing? Many Poles or Irish or French living here may well have bank accounts in their local currency back home as they may well want to return home one day and it avoids extrachassle when they do. Could be hundreds of thousands in that position?

Or is it just the UK banks panicking? 

Edited by MARTINX9
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What's the take on the double tax arrangements in place. I assume they will come to an end with no deal.

I expect that the vast majority of people receiving income (mainly pensions) into UK bank accounts are not being taxed on this income in the UK but would they be if it were paid into a bank account in the country where they're resident after a no-deal Brexit? 

Sorry some people may be paying tax on their private pension in the UK but I just wonder if it's possible people in say Spain may have to pay some tax on their UK state pension income. Plus having it paid into a a bank account where you're resident makes it a bit difficult to hide for those that want to.

Edited by spacedin
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17 minutes ago, spacedin said:

What's the take on the double tax arrangements in place. I assume they will come to an end with no deal.

I expect that the vast majority of people receiving income (mainly pensions) into UK bank accounts are not being taxed on this income in the UK but would they be if it were paid into a bank account in the country where they're resident after a no-deal Brexit? 

Sorry some people may be paying tax on their private pension in the UK but I just wonder if it's possible people in say Spain may have to pay some tax on their UK state pension income. Plus having it paid into a a bank account where you're resident makes it a bit difficult to hide for those that want to.

As I understand it if you receive a public sector employer pension from the NHS is local govt or civil service it must be paid into a UK account first and tax is paid on it in the UK.

Not so with private pensions.

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10 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

As I understand it if you receive a public sector employer pension from the NHS is local govt or civil service it must be paid into a UK account first and tax is paid on it in the UK.

Not so with private pensions.

I believe that is true.

Allowing UK private pensions to be paid locally in an EU country without deduction of UK tax up front, is a scam on other UK taxpayers, as that pension would have been accrued without UK tax being paid on it.

I also knew of people who retired to France, got their UK private pensions paid there, but went off to work in 3rd World countries, and thus became non resident in France, and never paid French tax on their pensions either.

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10 hours ago, onlooker said:

I believe that is true.

Allowing UK private pensions to be paid locally in an EU country without deduction of UK tax up front, is a scam on other UK taxpayers, as that pension would have been accrued without UK tax being paid on it.

Not satisfied with ending our EU rights and freedom of movement, I see brexiters are now going for capital controls so we can't take our wealth with us.

Edited by dugsbody
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36 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Not satisfied with ending our EU rights and freedom of movement, I see brexiters are not going for capital controls so we can't take our wealth with us.

Wealth gained without UK tax being paid on it. When paid out in pensions, the UK taxpayer should have first call on it. It is only fair.

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5 hours ago, shlomo said:
2 hours ago, shlomo said:

In answer to your question yes it should, if we have any EU people on here would love to know if you have been contacted by UK financial banks.  

 

I've been contacted by my Barclays credit card (which i never ever use), but not a peep regarding my regular Barclays account, and no communications from Lloyds either!

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2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

Not satisfied with ending our EU rights and freedom of movement, I see brexiters are not going for capital controls so we can't take our wealth with us.

Hardly - the pension contributions got UK tax relief so its only far the UK has first call on the pension income for tax purposes.

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3 hours ago, onlooker said:

Allowing UK private pensions to be paid locally in an EU country without deduction of UK tax up front, is a scam on other UK taxpayers, as that pension would have been accrued without UK tax being paid on it.

Generally speaking, tax is owed where you live, not where the money came from.

I transferred my UK pension fund to Canada years ago, but even if it was still in the UK I'd have paid tax on it here and not back there.

That said, one reason I moved it was because I could readily forsee a future where a bankrupt UK government wanted to tax it as well.

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1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

Hardly - the pension contributions got UK tax relief so its only far the UK has first call on the pension income for tax purposes.

They already curtail pension rises for ex pats, I guess this is no different, but it is a special case. Normally you have to be resident to pay income tax.

 

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4 minutes ago, MarkG said:

That said, one reason I moved it was because I could readily forsee a future where a bankrupt UK government wanted to tax it as well.

The brexiteers will be calling for more of this as people take flight and leave in retirement. 

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8 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Hardly - the pension contributions got UK tax relief so its only far the UK has first call on the pension income for tax purposes.

The whole international taxation system is based on a fact that you pay tax where you live. Changing would require all countries to agree on this, which is virtually impossible as that is not in their interest.  

An unilateral UK decision, terminating all double taxation treaties, will not be enforceable in other countries. As long as you don't plan to return to the UK you wouldn't need to worry about the UK tax liability. 

Fairness argument is misplaced. It is only fair to pay tax where you use the infrastructure provided by a state. 

 

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12 minutes ago, slawek said:

The whole international taxation system is based on a fact that you pay tax where you live. Changing would require all countries to agree on this, which is virtually impossible as that is not in their interest.  

An unilateral UK decision, terminating all double taxation treaties, will not be enforceable in other countries. As long as you don't plan to return to the UK you wouldn't need to worry about the UK tax liability. 

Fairness argument is misplaced. It is only fair to pay tax where you use the infrastructure provided by a state. 

That's not wholly true. Some countries such as the US will happily double tax people. They have a slightly cheeky tax system where you can be an illegal alien but still  subject to income tax in the US and on income earner there and earned in your home country and other taxes such as property sales tax if you sold your home to move to the US. 

The same thing works in reverse, expat Americans living outside the US in a country without a reciprocal tax agreement have to pay local and US income tax on their overseas income. 

While the UK has a reciprocal tax agreement with the US many US based webservices (such as UK authors publishing on kindle) have 30%tax withheld at source when paid. 

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2 minutes ago, regprentice said:

That's not wholly true. Some countries such as the US will happily double tax people. They have a slightly cheeky tax system where you can be an illegal alien but still  subject to income tax in the US and on income earner there and earned in your home country and other taxes such as property sales tax if you sold your home to move to the US. 

The same thing works in reverse, expat Americans living outside the US in a country without a reciprocal tax agreement have to pay local and US income tax on their overseas income. 

While the UK has a reciprocal tax agreement with the US many US based webservices (such as UK authors publishing on kindle) have 30%tax withheld at source when paid. 

Yes there are some quirks but the standard rule is salaries from employment where you live, any pensions and not real estate related capital gains are taxed only in the country where you live.

Your first example is a standard case, you live in the US and you pay tax in the US. The double taxation treaty set the rules what happens when two countries have a tax claim on your. There are rules where your tax residence is and where you pay taxes. When taxed in both countries how you avoid being double taxed.   

As far as I know the US tax residence is based on a citizenship, so if you revoke it the US doesn't have any claim. If you are still a citizen than a double taxation treaty makes sure you pay only in one country. The US have such treaty with most countries. So the situation you describe is only limited to a small number of countries without a DTT with the US, mostly tax havens.

The third example is a case where you live in the UK but earn money in the US. In this case a standard rule in DTTs is that the country where you have income (the US) may tax you but you can at least offset this tax again your tax in the country where you live (the UK). You are not doubled taxed.      

 

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9 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Hardly - the pension contributions got UK tax relief so its only far the UK has first call on the pension income for tax purposes.

Cool, so you're going to apply this to all the current ex-UK pensioners living around the world? How are you going to get them to pay?

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23 minutes ago, slawek said:

As far as I know the US tax residence is based on a citizenship, so if you revoke it the US doesn't have any claim. If you are still a citizen than a double taxation treaty makes sure you pay only in one country. The US have such treaty with most countries. So the situation you describe is only limited to a small number of countries without a DTT with the US, mostly tax havens.

This is what is odd about BJ revoking his US citizenship as given UK tax is generally higher than that in the USA he would have been paying next to nothing in US taxes here (it might still have been something - the rules are complex) unless he's being paid into offshore accounts or it was to show he was properly British.

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17 hours ago, shlomo said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8752653/British-expats-Europe-stripped-UK-bank-accounts-weeks-post-Brexit-rules.html

Tens of thousands of British expats who live in Europe risk having their UK bank accounts closed 'in weeks' due to post-Brexit rules.

Lloyds, Barclays and Coutts are among a number of UK banks that have starting giving notice to expatriate customers to say they will close their accounts at 11pm on December 31 

Tens of thousands of ****s who turned their backs on the UK in search of an easy life.....

 

No ****s to give. 

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  • 429 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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