Restaurants at 'critical risk' of eviction

[shlomo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54136993

Food firms have written to the government asking for support as a stand-off with landlords looms over rent holidays.

Companies such as Deliveroo called for a targeted extension of the commercial evictions ban, which was introduced at the height of the pandemic.

Revo, which represents landlords, said well-known firms were "getting away with not paying their rent".

The government said it was "working closely" with landlords and tenants.

In April the government introduced a moratorium on evictions for non-payment of rent, which was then extended until 30 September.

In a letter to Prime Minister Boris Johnson, chief executives of these firms called for a targeted extension of the rent holiday for restaurants in city centres and for those in areas under lockdown.

"There is a critical risk that many restaurants will face eviction proceedings from 1 October," the signatories said.

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The bosses, including Will Shu of Deliveroo, Alasdair Murdoch, the UK chief executive of Burger King, and Julian Metcalfe of Itsu, also said landlords should not be able to claim full back-rent when the moratorium ends.

Instead, rent arrears repayments should be spread across 12 months, they said.

[Bear Goggles]

I’m actually with the landlords on this. In commercial property, this process needs to play out as quickly as possible.

Businesses need to fail or restructure, and rents need to fall if new businesses can’t afford to pay what landlords demand. 

Capitalism innit. No one is going to die if a few branches of Burger King become unviable. 

[shlomo]

2 minutes ago, Bear Goggles said:

I’m actually with the landlords on this. In commercial property, this process needs to play out as quickly as possible.

Businesses need to fail or restructure, and rents need to fall if new businesses can’t afford to pay what landlords demand. 

Capitalism innit. No one is going to die if a few branches of Burger King become unviable. 

Not picking a side but so many of these business are unviable it is not going to be back to normal.

[captainb]

2 minutes ago, shlomo said:

Not picking a side but so many of these business are unviable it is not going to be back to normal.

Some maybe.. Although summer has been good, they are not paying buis rates, got grants etc. Its not all doom and gloom. 

Boots, super drug etc have refused to pay rent despite trading strongly all year. Get the landlords point on them and others 

[Bear Goggles]

4 minutes ago, shlomo said:

Not picking a side but so many of these business are unviable it is not going to be back to normal.

I agree. But they are partly unviable because rents are so high. Until LLs experience voids the market can not adjust. 

[shlomo]

2 minutes ago, captainb said:

Some maybe.. Although summer has been good, they are not paying buis rates, got grants etc. Its not all doom and gloom. 

Boots, super drug etc have refused to pay rent despite trading strongly all year. Get the landlords point on them and others 

So much is moving to amazon and online that retail bricks and mortar is not going to know what hit it.

[shlomo]

3 minutes ago, captainb said:

Some maybe.. Although summer has been good, they are not paying buis rates, got grants etc. Its not all doom and gloom. 

Boots, super drug etc have refused to pay rent despite trading strongly all year. Get the landlords point on them and others 

I keep thinking banking crisis, most private companies will be  indebted  to governments

[captainb]

Just now, shlomo said:

So much is moving to amazon and online that retail bricks and mortar is not going to know what hit it.

That's a long term trend for many. Online for many has to work out a way to be profitable with returns etc factored in. Most know what's coming as its been happening for a decade. Its not new. 

VAT avoidance can't or shouldn't last forever neither can or should business rates being so huge but no online sales tax. 

Hairdressers etc need a physical place, clothing is good having a base for people to try on, furniture you want to sit on, food etc. Not everyone wants to wait at home for a tesco delivery. 

 

[shlomo]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

That's a long term trend for many. Online for many has to work out a way to be profitable with returns etc factored in. Most know what's coming as its been happening for a decade. Its not new. 

VAT avoidance can't or shouldn't last forever neither can or should business rates being so huge but no online sales tax. 

Hairdressers etc need a physical place, clothing is good having a base for people to try on, furniture you want to sit on, food etc. Not everyone wants to wait at home for a tesco delivery. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds#:~:text=Online%2C mail and phone order sales&text=Sales of this kind are,once they've told you.

Online, mail and phone order sales

Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

--------------------------------------------------------

If you are competing against a Chinese seller on amazon they do not pay VAT, they will close the company when they hit the vat threshold and reopen another one.

so they have a 20% advantage over you

--------------------------

I have started to shop online for Food and clothing, only furniture and barbers is a no go for me at the moment,

[captainb]

4 minutes ago, shlomo said:

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds#:~:text=Online%2C mail and phone order sales&text=Sales of this kind are,once they've told you.

Online, mail and phone order sales

Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

--------------------------------------------------------

If you are competing against a Chinese seller on amazon they do not pay VAT, they will close the company when they hit the vat threshold and reopen another one.

so they have a 20% advantage over you

--------------------------

I have started to shop online for Food and clothing, only furniture and barbers is a no go for me at the moment,

I'm well aware of what goes on. 

What should have happened a long time ago is

-amazon and other platforms collect VAT on behalf of HMRC

-online sales tax to partially redistribute taxes raised from physical stores 

Both are being discussed at senior govnt level 

[captainb]

Just to add on Vat. Switzerland, Norway and others require amazon and Co to do it. Its so logical and frustrating they haven't bought it in already 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d9baad71-f447-43ac-bca4-2f93e8127811

[shlomo]

4 minutes ago, captainb said:

Just to add on Vat. Switzerland, Norway and others require amazon and Co to do it. Its so logical and frustrating they haven't bought it in already 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d9baad71-f447-43ac-bca4-2f93e8127811

Well they do need to start plugging the gap in revenue so i can see it happening, the person who brings it in will be very popular with small business. 

[Locke]

11 hours ago, shlomo said:

Well they do need to start plugging the gap in revenue so i can see it happening, the person who brings it in will be very popular with small business. 

Or just abolish VAT.

[shlomo]

6 minutes ago, Locke said:

Or just abolish VAT.

That would be more popular but then they would need to cut spending 

[Locke]

9 minutes ago, shlomo said:

That would be more popular but then they would need to cut spending 

Good heavens, how awful! Can you imagine?

[shlomo]

11 minutes ago, Locke said:

Good heavens, how awful! Can you imagine?

No money for schools or hospitals or government services that would be awful 

[winkie]

12 hours ago, Bear Goggles said:

I agree. But they are partly unviable because rents are so high. Until LLs experience voids the market can not adjust. 

Agree....if rents and debts were not so high the businesses would be viable, wages would be met.....why prop zombie businesses, throwing good money after bad.....warning signs! rents, tax and wages being paid using benefits, grants and debt....

Not a level or fair playing field when the prudent businesses who reinvest, adapt to changes are not supported, when the careless, exgravagant and rash are supported.

New businesses then can then enter the market and thrive.

 

 

[Locke]

4 minutes ago, shlomo said:

No money for schools

Good. We should get with the 21st, or even late 20th century and have all online classes. Government schooling is a massive waste of time, money and childhood.

5 minutes ago, shlomo said:

No money for  hospitals

There's still NI and income tax.

6 minutes ago, shlomo said:

No money for government services that would be awful 

Like blowing up brown children in foreign countries, forcibly suppressing interest rates, or locking people up for mean tweets? I know I couldn't live without those services.

[GregBowman]

1 hour ago, Locke said:

Or just abolish VAT.

VAT is one of the fairer tax in effect its a sales or consumption tax, you have a choice what you spend on so is avoidable in many cases  -  Big car more VAT, Imelda Marcos shoe collection more tax, Eat out every night more tax

What needs sorting is VAT off some more essential items and online retail paying their fair share

[msi]

1 hour ago, GregBowman said:

VAT is one of the fairer tax in effect its a sales or consumption tax, you have a choice what you spend on so is avoidable in many cases  -  Big car more VAT, Imelda Marcos shoe collection more tax, Eat out every night more tax

What needs sorting is VAT off some more essential items and online retail paying their fair share

If you want a wacky idea, go for personalised VAT. 

On minimum wage -  1% VAT

Lower rate taxpayer - 10%

Higher rate tax payer - 18%

Top rate tax payer - 25%

Top 1%'er - 33%

 

If you make payments electronic, it's then easy to identify and apply personal VAT rate.  You can exempt essentials and can even measure total consumption and adjust surcharges too.  (BTL'ers get another 10% added)

[GregBowman]

10 minutes ago, msi said:

If you want a wacky idea, go for personalised VAT. 

On minimum wage -  1% VAT

Lower rate taxpayer - 10%

Higher rate tax payer - 18%

Top rate tax payer - 25%

Top 1%'er - 33%

 

If you make payments electronic, it's then easy to identify and apply personal VAT rate.  You can exempt essentials and can even measure total consumption and adjust surcharges too.  (BTL'ers get another 10% added)

The beauty of your wacky idea is the top rate is 25% where the laffer curves says max total take occurs 

[Locke]

1 minute ago, GregBowman said:

The beauty of your wacky idea is the top rate is 25% where the laffer curves says max total take occurs 

Isn't the Laffer curve dependent upon which society you are looking at?

Yes, consumption taxes are the fairest, however cutting VAT is the most politically palatable and overall, a reduction in taxation is better.

[crazypabs]

17 minutes ago, msi said:

If you want a wacky idea, go for personalised VAT. 

On minimum wage -  1% VAT

Lower rate taxpayer - 10%

Higher rate tax payer - 18%

Top rate tax payer - 25%

Top 1%'er - 33%

 

If you make payments electronic, it's then easy to identify and apply personal VAT rate.  You can exempt essentials and can even measure total consumption and adjust surcharges too.  (BTL'ers get another 10% added)

I'd get my low wage sister to buy everything for me to evade, not avoid, tax. Wouldn't work but a nice idea

[msi]

2 minutes ago, crazypabs said:

I'd get my low wage sister to buy everything for me to evade, not avoid, tax. Wouldn't work but a nice idea

Like I said, wacky idea to generate new thoughts - I didn't create it as a full blown policy.

To answer your point, your sister can buy stuff for you and decide how much she wants to charge you 'for her time'. Nice earner for those on a low wage. Also the personalised consumption could catch people buying Rolls-Royce's on minimum wage for resale

[GregBowman]

1 minute ago, msi said:

Like I said, wacky idea to generate new thoughts - I didn't create it as a full blown policy.

To answer your point, your sister can buy stuff for you and decide how much she wants to charge you 'for her time'. Nice earner for those on a low wage. Also the personalised consumption could catch people buying Rolls-Royce's on minimum wage for resale

The HMRC's big data project was created for just that purpose