satsuma Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, scottbeard said: Most ARE back to work - furlough down from 9 million to 3 million Good, I thought it was higher, well as for the others they can all just pop back into work now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, satsuma said: Not sure why they are still on Furlough, the second wave never happened, we are doing 200k tests now and therefore the number of positives is going to be bigger than before in a true second wave but it’s not. Also few deaths. People should be getting back to work. Theatres and nightclubs etc still can't open can they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmondtw Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 53 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: Theatres and nightclubs etc still can't open can they? Or fetish clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highcontrast Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Mancunian284 said: Yes, it’s true. Pay in and have savings over 16k - contribution based JSA for 6 months max. Arrive from Poland with a couple of kids in tow, having never contributed a penny and you get 2k a month for 18 odd years. Whilst I knew this is what happens/has happened, actually reading this has made me feel a bit ill. Seriously, you can get 18 years worth of benefits??? Don't they say find a job after a year or else we stop paying! Absolute madness! And why have i worked for 20 odd years to only get 6 months worth of benefits??? Talk about shafting your own. Obviously uk born scroungers from birth do the same, but the fact that you come from overseas (without EVER contributing!) and do this is simply staggering is it not? No wonder every man and his dog wan't to come here, the UK taxpayer will fund their life...FFS. No wonder the country is screwed. No wonder the Brexit vote went the way it did IMO. Edited September 16, 2020 by highcontrast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 21 hours ago, iamnumerate said: I have heard other doctors say similar things. I really would recommend doctors to work on something safer than ME research. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 19 hours ago, Flopsy said: I doubt if that is true. The ME Association does regular surveys of their patients and the greatest harm(s) have been reported from exercise. They aren't reporting many cures from the methods you claim. There is a USA reporter who has looked at the claims from the exercise and CBT group. There were 2 major research papers published and neither of these supported the claims of recovery from these methods. Our own local support group (for people with Neurological diseases) keeps an eye on this area as some of the same "researchers" have an interest in other areas of revenue. We also get the same BS claims. I also listen to the TVIV podcasts on "Virology Today "and they host a section which reports on ME politics and are very good at calling out the quacks. https://www.virology.ws/mecfs/ Here's a link to an open letter about one of the failed trails signed by many international researchers and doctors in support of ME patients complaints. The idea that this was all unwarranted hostility from trolls from the patient community was a lie. The science never added up and in the UK in particular there was a group of doctors making false claims and then trying to blame patient hostility instead of addressing their own failure. https://www.virology.ws/2018/08/13/trial-by-error-open-letter-to-the-lancet-version-3-0/ My other post did say it has been discredited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highcontrast Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 18 hours ago, nothernsoul said: My sympathies to high contrast. You have done the supposedly right thing,have worked, paid tax and national insurance, put some rainy day money aside, then lost a job through no fault of your own. You then have to jump through hoops to get the insultingly named" contributions based" JSA which is nothing of the sort. Sorry, I am unfamiliar with benefits system so cant offer advice. Many thanks @nothernsoul @dpg50000 @poohbear for the replies, will need to do some further digging but yes as we/I expect, my piggy bank savings will likely prevent any further kind of benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, highcontrast said: Many thanks @nothernsoul @dpg50000 @poohbear for the replies, will need to do some further digging but yes as we/I expect, my piggy bank savings will likely prevent any further kind of benefits. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, highcontrast said: Whilst I knew this is what happens/has happened, actually reading this has made me feel a bit ill. Seriously, you can get 18 years worth of benefits??? Don't they say find a job after a year or else we stop paying! Absolute madness! And why have i worked for 20 odd years to only get 6 months worth of benefits??? Talk about shafting your own. Obviously uk born scroungers from birth do the same, but the fact that you come from overseas (without EVER contributing!) and do this is simply staggering is it not? No wonder every man and his dog wan't to come here, the UK taxpayer will fund their life...FFS. No wonder the country is screwed. No wonder the Brexit vote went the way it did IMO. I assume that the 18 years of benefits is referring to child benefit in his example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbuk3 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, highcontrast said: Whilst I knew this is what happens/has happened, actually reading this has made me feel a bit ill. Seriously, you can get 18 years worth of benefits??? Don't they say find a job after a year or else we stop paying! Absolute madness! And why have i worked for 20 odd years to only get 6 months worth of benefits??? Talk about shafting your own. Obviously uk born scroungers from birth do the same, but the fact that you come from overseas (without EVER contributing!) and do this is simply staggering is it not? No wonder every man and his dog wan't to come here, the UK taxpayer will fund their life...FFS. No wonder the country is screwed. No wonder the Brexit vote went the way it did IMO. And that was what Brexit meant to most of the people who voted for it. Nothing to do with trade deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjen Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 thing is, if it really were contribution based then after getting say 10 years of work, say if that qualified you to a years full pay in benefits entitlement, then many people would just play the system, work 10 years, 1 year off etc thus its a necessity that benefits are tight to prevent anyone playing the system deliberately imagine say if someone worked 30 years, and then has basically 5 years full pay, then everyone would just go on benifits as an early retirement equally there are people who get maintenance to do a uni degree at say 60 to give more monies to survive until retirement or state pension, thats quite a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, jiltedjen said: thing is, if it really were contribution based then after getting say 10 years of work, say if that qualified you to a years full pay in benefits entitlement, then many people would just play the system, work 10 years, 1 year off etc thus its a necessity that benefits are tight to prevent anyone playing the system deliberately imagine say if someone worked 30 years, and then has basically 5 years full pay, then everyone would just go on benifits as an early retirement equally there are people who get maintenance to do a uni degree at say 60 to give more monies to survive until retirement or state pension, thats quite a good one Accrue benefits fopr up to 10 years. Say 1 year contrib - dole at @10% month pay - or some minimum. Up to 10 years, where you get 30%-30%. Pots drawn down, then empties over 2 years. Most people putting in 10 years are unlikely to take a year off as the risk of net getting reemployed after 2 eyars off is too high. The problem is the UK welfare state does not work, in terms on unemployement. As it stands, all the money - quite large sums in TC days - fos to people whove never/barely worked. And all the people paying in get ******all. Thats not a recipe for a system that is going to last. If the media were not so enthralled to Brown';s genius idea and actually looked at the numbers and made them wider known then thered be riots on the street. This is the closest to main stream media ever got to reporting of TC: https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-truth-about-tax-credits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 21 hours ago, winkie said: Really, I know people who have always worked and never claimed benefits.....also know people who have never worked and never claimed benefits. I have worked my entire life and always paid taxes, an old school friend has been on benefits for over 25 years, he has COPD and Diabetes because of inactivity well according to his doctor, apart from going bald i have nothing wrong with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btl_hater Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, jiltedjen said: thing is, if it really were contribution based then after getting say 10 years of work, say if that qualified you to a years full pay in benefits entitlement, then many people would just play the system, work 10 years, 1 year off etc thus its a necessity that benefits are tight to prevent anyone playing the system deliberately imagine say if someone worked 30 years, and then has basically 5 years full pay, then everyone would just go on benifits as an early retirement equally there are people who get maintenance to do a uni degree at say 60 to give more monies to survive until retirement or state pension, thats quite a good one Would people really do this, though? Such a system already exists in Holland, for example, where, for each year you work, you get the "insurance" of 1 months pay at 70% of your last salary in the event of being made redundant. If you quit or are fired then you do not get this insurance payment. Once this unemployment benefit runs out you go onto welfare and they will get you to sell your car... So unless you request to be made redundant then i'm not sure how else to game this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, jiltedjen said: thing is, if it really were contribution based then after getting say 10 years of work, say if that qualified you to a years full pay in benefits entitlement, then many people would just play the system, work 10 years, 1 year off etc thus its a necessity that benefits are tight to prevent anyone playing the system deliberately imagine say if someone worked 30 years, and then has basically 5 years full pay, then everyone would just go on benifits as an early retirement equally there are people who get maintenance to do a uni degree at say 60 to give more monies to survive until retirement or state pension, thats quite a good one I'm of the belief that the system needs a really radical overhaul. yes it would be contribution based, but the scheme would ultimately be a time limited "safety net", lets say 5 years per working adults lifespan(or 7/8 years for women to cover maternity periods) you can claim after 2 years non stop work, but the total take is deducted from your pension, so the less you claim,the more you get back at retirement...and most importantly, the time limit. after 5 years(or 7 years) the clock has run out, no more freebies.. that would be sufficient to limit costs to the taxpayer,..i've figured this out as 3 really bad recessions in a working life of 50 years,with about 18 months of downtime, which is still I think quite generous......and incentive enough to put a boot up the backside of those gaming the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, btl_hater said: Would people really do this, though? Such a system already exists in Holland, for example, where, for each year you work, you get the "insurance" of 1 months pay at 70% of your last salary in the event of being made redundant. If you quit or are fired then you do not get this insurance payment. Once this unemployment benefit runs out you go onto welfare and they will get you to sell your car... So unless you request to be made redundant then i'm not sure how else to game this system. it's not a bad system at all, but the one I'm advocating gives people the option to do maternity or sabbatical for a decent period if they so wish,rather than fobbing the poor little sprog off to childcare at 6 weeks old. it also give an employer the prospect of hiring a decent contractor as a fill-in for a good period of time,rather than having an army of temps who you have to keep retraing how to use the computer system etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 sorry my spelling is abysmal///retraing should read "retraining" there's a lot of the nordic countries have adopted something along these lines,and it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A17 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, spyguy said: Accrue benefits fopr up to 10 years. Say 1 year contrib - dole at @10% month pay - or some minimum. Up to 10 years, where you get 30%-30%. Pots drawn down, then empties over 2 years. Most people putting in 10 years are unlikely to take a year off as the risk of net getting reemployed after 2 eyars off is too high. The problem is the UK welfare state does not work, in terms on unemployement. As it stands, all the money - quite large sums in TC days - fos to people whove never/barely worked. And all the people paying in get ******all. Thats not a recipe for a system that is going to last. If the media were not so enthralled to Brown';s genius idea and actually looked at the numbers and made them wider known then thered be riots on the street. This is the closest to main stream media ever got to reporting of TC: https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-truth-about-tax-credits Another trick that people use is comparing tax free benefits and taxable income. £1,000 of benefits gives you £1,000 in your bank account, but £1,000 of marginal income does not. The most annoying one is when people say "Well my housing benefit doesn't count as it goes straight to the landlord!". What do you think everybody else has to do (plus paying tax before giving it to the landlord/mortgage provider)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of Doom Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 As there are now so many, not sure which is the best thread to post job losses on but here goes: From The Guardian live business blog... We start with bad news from the UK - Whitbread, the hotel and restaurant chain, is cutting 6,000 jobs. It’s the latest in a string of firms across the leisure sector to cut headcount since the pandemic began. Whitbread, which owns the Premier Inns hotel chains, is cutting its workforce by 18%. It suffered a slump in trading compared with a year ago, and fears that demand will remain weak. ** And furlough still hasn't fully ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Preacherman Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 16/09/2020 at 16:05, jiltedjen said: thing is, if it really were contribution based then after getting say 10 years of work, say if that qualified you to a years full pay in benefits entitlement, then many people would just play the system, work 10 years, 1 year off etc thus its a necessity that benefits are tight to prevent anyone playing the system deliberately imagine say if someone worked 30 years, and then has basically 5 years full pay, then everyone would just go on benifits as an early retirement equally there are people who get maintenance to do a uni degree at say 60 to give more monies to survive until retirement or state pension, thats quite a good one The rest of Europe what you get back out is related to what you've paid in. There is usually a minimum period 6 months to 2 years that you need to have worked for to make a claim. With scores of decent working people loosing their jobs due to covid-19 they are about to find out how are benefit system is cruel on those who work hard and gentle on the scroungers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Preacherman Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 15/09/2020 at 15:27, Flopsy said: I doubt if that is true. The ME Association does regular surveys of their patients and the greatest harm(s) have been reported from exercise. They aren't reporting many cures from the methods you claim. There is a USA reporter who has looked at the claims from the exercise and CBT group. There were 2 major research papers published and neither of these supported the claims of recovery from these methods. Our own local support group (for people with Neurological diseases) keeps an eye on this area as some of the same "researchers" have an interest in other areas of revenue. We also get the same BS claims. I also listen to the TVIV podcasts on "Virology Today "and they host a section which reports on ME politics and are very good at calling out the quacks. https://www.virology.ws/mecfs/ Here's a link to an open letter about one of the failed trails signed by many international researchers and doctors in support of ME patients complaints. The idea that this was all unwarranted hostility from trolls from the patient community was a lie. The science never added up and in the UK in particular there was a group of doctors making false claims and then trying to blame patient hostility instead of addressing their own failure. https://www.virology.ws/2018/08/13/trial-by-error-open-letter-to-the-lancet-version-3-0/ Get with it ME is out, for the past decade it has been Fibromyalgia and now it is long covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsBuild Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Anyone heard anymore about furlough extension? They mentioned that something might be coming at the end of the nightly news on BBC yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 16/09/2020 at 16:39, shlomo said: I have worked my entire life and always paid taxes, an old school friend has been on benefits for over 25 years, he has COPD and Diabetes because of inactivity well according to his doctor, apart from going bald i have nothing wrong with me. Having a worthwhile, enjoyable job to do and be paid for doing it is good for mental and physical health and wellbeing......the stress of not knowing where the next month's money will come from, if will still have a job to go to, and even if there is another job out there to do that can match the last job, how many will be in competition for it?.... must be terrible for anxiety and can go on to create other health problems including all kinds of addictions........ inactivity is not good for mind or matter or quality of life ongoing.........even those with a regular income who can pay the bills if feel powerless with low self-esteem and are inactive can go on to have a life with health issues, it can shorten lives if not overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 As predicted: Sunak weighs up new worker pay subsidy scheme https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54264689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 As predicted: Sunak weighs up new worker pay subsidy scheme https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54264689 What a surprise seriously this can will be kicked a long way down the road. Does this mean the end of furlough HPC is cancelled now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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