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Gov Under Massive Pressure to Extend Furlough - Face the Music or Kick the Can ?


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8 minutes ago, Bear Goggles said:

Debating with my parents whether it’s worse than the 70s or not. Apparently not, because there are no power cuts or shortages, and inflation is low. 

I guess we need to wait for a no deal Brexit to see if we can sort that part out.

The thing that is worse though is political stoking of hatred. I don’t think we had the ruling party and its sympathetic press outriders accusing the judiciary and those that don’t support Brexit of being actual traitors back then. 

well we had a ruling party being absolutely hauled over a barrel with the trade unions in pretty much total control of energy porduction,goods production and transport for a start.

hence why when maggie came in she sought to break them,and low and behold we found north sea oil.

it sort of went too far in the opposite direction where everybody else around the globe now owns our stuff, which is not really the ending the trade unions wanted either,if they had been a bit more cooperative in the first place there wouldn't have been the need to take a sledgehammer to it.Corporations are equally culpable though,when faced with such a high tax,high regulation regime as back in the 70's,it was a natural response to look for pastures new for cost efficiency and growth......something that our politicians would be wise to heed now,as the outsourcing of recent years has had much to do with high tax and excessive regulation.

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7 hours ago, msi said:

All of the above was, by in large, of our own choice to have.  We reap what we sow.

 

The rapid spread of COVID was our desire for globalisation (cos we want cheap tat, innit?), and the cuts to public services from 'our' desire for lower taxation and 'less public waste'. We voted for Br*xit as the means justifying the end.

 

the rapid spread of covid was inevitible give the amount of international travel we have compared to even 30 years ago.

it has also highlighted some of the dangers of outsourcing and supply chains from afar(or potentially hostile nations), something uncle sam seems to have taken on board while boris and co are still in denial and spouting on about "global britain"

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The gov might not be extending the scheme however lots of new gov jobs are being created due to Covid. Many Street Marshal posts in every UK town city and also jobs re testing and tracing, the contract for which has been awarded to Hays Travel whose staff were prob going to made redundant. So the figures may not be as bad as people are forecasting in the short/medium time 

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17 minutes ago, papag said:

The gov might not be extending the scheme however lots of new gov jobs are being created due to Covid. Many Street Marshal posts in every UK town city and also jobs re testing and tracing, the contract for which has been awarded to Hays Travel whose staff were prob going to made redundant. So the figures may not be as bad as people are forecasting in the short/medium time 

Street Marshalls, building up public sector employees.. easy to see the  conspiracy theorists make hay on this.  Not sure they're wrong, either.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't know if I'm being stupid but I don't get this.

The example HM treasury gave is that an employee works 33% of their normal time. But the employer pays 55% of their wage of their full time work

So if there's 3 employees on the same wage and all 3 go to 33% work. That's the equivalent of 1 full time employee so 100% salary. However the employer will be paying 165% wage.

Why wouldn't the employer just get rid of 2 employees then so what's the point of this new scheme??

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Can thoroughly kicked down the road for loan repayments, vat bills etc. From. Listening some of those debts won't be repaid, or fully accepted as unpaid due to fraud, for ten years. 

Yeah this was annoying, since I think much of the house price rises have been from fraudulent bounce back loans.

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I don't know if I'm being stupid but I don't get this.

The example HM treasury gave is that an employee works 33% of their normal time. But the employer pays 55% of their wage of their full time work

So if there's 3 employees on the same wage and all 3 go to 33% work. That's the equivalent of 1 full time employee so 100% salary. However the employer will be paying 165% wage.

Why wouldn't the employer just get rid of 2 employees then so what's the point of this new scheme??

I don’t know except for situation where you need lots of hands for short periods. If the work can be smeared out over a timeframe that 1 person can do it then I don’t see how you are wrong.

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Yeah much more targeted. The non jobs that were furloughed, ‘because it was a nice thing to do’, will be gone now.

HPC's resident QAnon nuts will still greet it with cries of Marxism! Venezuela!

Guaranteed.

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Surely there must be a wage cap on this scheme, it would be severely expensive if gov are going to pay 22% of wages for people on 100k, 200k ??

 

There is a cap in the full documentation:

£697.92 per month

 

Edit to add:

So capped at about £38k salary level for the full 22%.

Edited by koala_bear
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HPC's resident QAnon nuts will still greet it with cries of Marxism! Venezuela!

Guaranteed.

Venezuela and Marxism are both excellent examples of how to take something that sounded good at the time and then completely feck it up for everybody at every step. I disagree with the 'free money' steps being taken, they can do it cheaper and without food riots (which is the main concern), but thousands of free cash a month is taking the p1ss IMHO.

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39 minutes ago, LetsBuild said:

Yeah this was annoying, since I think much of the house price rises have been from fraudulent bounce back loans.

Why didn't Anneliese Dodds use this opportunity to flag up the smug landlords on YouTube who used BB loans to buy up yet more FTB property? Why didn't she ask what enforcement such misuse of funds we could expect? What is the point of a Labour opposition if they miss an obvious opportunity to show how a government bung is helping landlords?

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There is a cap in the full documentation:

£697.92 per month

 

Edit to add:

So capped at about £38k salary level for the full 22%.

Cheers for that, seems a reasonable cap, far more manageable than 2.5k a month.

Just hope it doesn’t get abused, as in employer setting hours at 33% then expecting workers to put 77% or more hours in. Especially easy to put home workers under this pressure.

I am down to a 4 day week, 10% pay cut, and two hours work for free, wonder if I’ll be working 33% of 4 days...

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Venezuela and Marxism are both excellent examples of how to take something that sounded good at the time and then completely feck it up for everybody at every step. I disagree with the 'free money' steps being taken, they can do it cheaper and without food riots (which is the main concern), but thousands of free cash a month is taking the p1ss IMHO.

The Tory boys don't need any lessons in how to feck things up for everybody!

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Cheers for that, seems a reasonable cap, far more manageable than 2.5k a month.

Just hope it doesn’t get abused, as in employer setting hours at 33% then expecting workers to put 77% or more hours in. Especially easy to put home workers under this pressure.

I am down to a 4 day week, 10% pay cut, and two hours work for free, wonder if I’ll be working 33% of 4 days...

that's exactly what's going to happen and there's no oversight to prevent abuse of the system

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Why didn't Anneliese Dodds use this opportunity to flag up the smug landlords on YouTube who used BB loans to buy up yet more FTB property? Why didn't she ask what enforcement such misuse of funds we could expect? What is the point of a Labour opposition if they miss an obvious opportunity to show how a government bung is helping landlords?

Exactly, they are hopeless, honestly, and I voted labour at the last election.

I mean its an open goal screaming at them to score and keep hammering home the message.

Labour are being made to look ridiculous at the moment, totally irrelevant, I am not bothered by polls now showing a narrowing between them and the Tories.  Election is years away so polls now of little meaning.

Rishi has also out maneuvered them on his spending which has the big bungs to the better off included.

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There is a cap in the full documentation:

£697.92 per month

 

Edit to add:

So capped at about £38k salary level for the full 22%.

Cheers for that, seems a reasonable cap, far more manageable than 2.5k a month.

Just hope it doesn’t get abused, as in employer setting hours at 33% then expecting workers to put 77% or more hours in. Especially easy to put home workers under this pressure.

I am down to a 4 day week, 10% pay cut, and two hours work for free, wonder if I’ll be working 33% of 4 days...

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Cheers for that, seems a reasonable cap, far more manageable than 2.5k a month.

Just hope it doesn’t get abused, as in employer setting hours at 33% then expecting workers to put 77% or more hours in. Especially easy to put home workers under this pressure.

I am down to a 4 day week, 10% pay cut, and two hours work for free, wonder if I’ll be working 33% of 4 days...

a lot of folks in the same boat i suspect,  i would anticipate a good number of such employees to be getting "a reduction in hours"

rishi's under a bit of pressure for sure,he knows that a pay cut and a job for most people will be more tolerable than mass layoffs,unemployment,increased crime ,exacerbated rioting etc down the line.

 

it'll be a case of people moaning a lot and drawing their horns in spending wise than people completely blowing their top and taking to the streets(well in smaller numbers than would otherwise be the case)

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The questions asked at the end of Rishi’s press conference were mostly a waste of time. They were all along the lines of ‘which jobs/sectors/ businesses will not be saved by the new scheme?’  As if they were ever going to get an answer to that, even if he knew (which he doesn’t) no one asked any technical questions regarding rules/limitations of the scheme, most viewers probably went away thinking that they  would get 77% of their full pay regardless of how much they are paid or the siZe if business they work for. 

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Exactly, they are hopeless, honestly, and I voted labour at the last election.

I mean its an open goal screaming at them to score and keep hammering home the message.

Labour are being made to look ridiculous at the moment, totally irrelevant, I am not bothered by polls now showing a narrowing between them and the Tories.  Election is years away so polls now of little meaning.

Rishi has also out maneuvered them on his spending which has the big bungs to the better off included.

I agree.

I don't know what is more shocking, that she is 42 (I thought she was at least 50) or the gap between her and Sunak. At least Sunak has had some work experience and is not a career politician. There surely must be someone better.

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  • 441 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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