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A property wealth tax is the only fair way to pay for the Covid-19 crisis


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18 hours ago, Chunketh said:

Ill do you a favour, not that you will understand it. You can buy in from a ton a month so your ridiculous idea of people being "priced out" of the stock market is a crazy as your faith on the property market.

https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/

You're welcome.

Just like you expect house prices to fall back to 2007 levels, your share prices also should fall back to 2007 levels for an equal society. You've PRICED OUT younger investors while sitting tight with your @$$ on the shares you bought cheaply while expecting young people to buy those shares at massive prices now so that you can enjoy your UNEARNED GAINS.

You'll never understand that you're leeching off hard working employees of companies in which you bought shares and forcing next generation to buy those shares at higher prices to fund YOUR retirement.

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1 hour ago, Simhadri said:

Just like you expect house prices to fall back to 2007 levels, your share prices also should fall back to 2007 levels for an equal society. You've PRICED OUT younger investors while sitting tight with your @$$ on the shares you bought cheaply while expecting young people to buy those shares at massive prices now so that you can enjoy your UNEARNED GAINS.

You'll never understand that you're leeching off hard working employees of companies in which you bought shares and forcing next generation to buy those shares at higher prices to fund YOUR retirement.

You really are totally clueless.

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On 8/14/2020 at 5:19 PM, Unmoderated said:

https://www.cityam.com/a-property-wealth-tax-is-the-only-fair-way-to-pay-for-the-covid-19-crisis/

"So how’s this for a proposal: we should scrap principal private residence relief which means people are not liable for capital gains tax if they are selling their home, and introduce a 10 per cent property capital gains tax on all homes. It would be payable when cash is available (unlike, for example, an annual mansion tax), at the time of sale or settling an estate following the death of the last living owner."

This would be, to a large extent, a tax on those having to sell. Thus is would hit those facing redundancy who will be hit by a tax if they have to sell their home, those having to move for work, or those selling to downsize in old age. You could argue that the last group has benefited most from HPI, but may also have to spend that downsizing bonus to care. Those who don't have to sell will be fine, older people may hang onto their properties to gain more HPI and accept 10% being lost as an additional 'death tax' (terrible term) and landlords won't want to crystalise a perceived loss (even if it's just less of a gain) as it is introduced. So to me it looks like a poor choice.

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6 hours ago, GodlessEndeavor said:

The US system meaning much lower overall taxes? Or do you want to the high property tax to the already high UK taxes (VAT, council tax, PAYE, stamp duty etc)?

and @Tiger131

We have a much bigger state than the US with an NHS, schools etc. to pay for. If people want an NHS (& surveys show 80 odd percent do) then it has to be paid for !

If you levied the taxes on income the I.T would be ridiculous so it has to be raised some how?!

There's a poster on here I think @MarkG (apologies if its not you MarkG) who makes a persuasive argument that the person in Mayfair should be paying more in council tax than they do now .  I think a fairer way is for 1-3% or whatever to be levied of current home value than what we have now which is the same as they have in the US .  

 

Edited by Warlord
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21 hours ago, Simhadri said:

Yeah the axe will hit stock market farmers who make shares very costly to buy for young people. Stock market speculative gains will be ******ed too. Yeah its a ******ing time and yeah will buy another property next year. ?

Mods: when are you going to get rid of this troll? Every thread he's spamming the same nonsense about shares and BTL's 

@HPC Mod

He is obviously getting very worried about his portfolio and venting and trolling the forum!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Simhadri said:

You'll never understand that you're leeching off hard working employees of companies in which you bought shares and forcing next generation to buy those shares at higher prices to fund YOUR retirement.

You dont understand the very basics of capital markets, troll.

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1 hour ago, Warlord said:

Mods: when are you going to get rid of this troll? Every thread he's spamming the same nonsense about shares and BTL's 

@HPC Mod

He is obviously getting very worried about his portfolio and venting and trolling the forum!

 

 

lol

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/12411219/stamp-duty-cut-hikes-average-property-prices/

I'm worried.

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3 hours ago, Simhadri said:

You'll never understand that you're leeching off hard working employees of companies in which you bought shares and forcing next generation to buy those shares at higher prices to fund YOUR retirement.

Most people don't need to invest in shares. Even if you have spare money there are vast number of other choices available such as bank deposits, bonds, commodities etc.

However, a house is a basic necessity for anyone. You need to live somewhere so there is no a choice. The government's policies to prop up the property market is a genocide of poor renter minorities for the benefit of rich homeowner/landlord majorities.

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19 hours ago, Warlord said:

and @Tiger131

We have a much bigger state than the US with an NHS, schools etc. to pay for. If people want an NHS (& surveys show 80 odd percent do) then it has to be paid for !

If you levied the taxes on income the I.T would be ridiculous so it has to be raised some how?!

There's a poster on here I think @MarkG (apologies if its not you MarkG) who makes a persuasive argument that the person in Mayfair should be paying more in council tax than they do now .  I think a fairer way is for 1-3% or whatever to be levied of current home value than what we have now which is the same as they have in the US .  

 

Good luck with that one when the local council are sending the bailiffs armed with reposesion orders to the average joe who chooses to pay for food for their kids over a 9k a year tax bill cos they live in a mortgaged 300k semi. Don't you get it, people in the UK don't have the money?

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20 hours ago, Warlord said:

and @Tiger131

We have a much bigger state than the US with an NHS, schools etc. to pay for. If people want an NHS (& surveys show 80 odd percent do) then it has to be paid for !

If you levied the taxes on income the I.T would be ridiculous so it has to be raised some how?!

There's a poster on here I think @MarkG (apologies if its not you MarkG) who makes a persuasive argument that the person in Mayfair should be paying more in council tax than they do now .  I think a fairer way is for 1-3% or whatever to be levied of current home value than what we have now which is the same as they have in the US .  

 

Not all his posts are that persuasive.....LOL Mr G ?

But that principle is sound and as you say works in the US. I live in reasonable house and even at my level ridiculous that my council tax bill is the same as someone in a £300k semi - compared to my last house not even sure I am in the top band

The local tax thing works quite well because by definition it sets bands anyway. It also uses average of last prices sold as well or your actual bought price

My family in the US can't get their mind around a £20 million house in Belgravia paying the same as a £400k semi in the sticks

To be fair no sane person should be able to

 

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38 minutes ago, Tiger131 said:

Good luck with that one when the local council are sending the bailiffs armed with reposesion orders to the average joe who chooses to pay for food for their kids over a 9k a year tax bill cos they live in a mortgaged 300k semi. Don't you get it, people in the UK don't have the money?

There are all sorts of set offs but certainly none that apply once you get above about $750K

A good comprise would be to re band up to about that figure then graduate percentage after that 

.5% on £750k to £1 million houses

1% £1 million to £1.5 million

2 or 3 % on houses more expensive after that 

Note: loads of people have money in the UK how many people are rushing back from France ? or the 500,000 from Spain

 

Edited by GregBowman
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Until council tax was introduced in 1993, more was paid by those in expensive houses under the old system of domestic rates. What we have had since then is the exception, not the historical norm. 

Since the 1970s the rate of income tax paid by the wealthy has decreased massively. Ok, I can see arguments for that. It might have been considered fair to tax wealth, in the form of property, slightly higher to compensate. Instead the opposite happened. 

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4 hours ago, Tiger131 said:

Good luck with that one when the local council are sending the bailiffs armed with reposesion orders to the average joe who chooses to pay for food for their kids over a 9k a year tax bill cos they live in a mortgaged 300k semi. Don't you get it, people in the UK don't have the money?

Councils are elected and accountable. If it was set by them a crippling bill would see them voted out in short order.

I don't think we would see crippling bills with 1-3%. Ir would be different in different areas. Those in London and SE would see their bills go up alot though I admit but if you want an NHS etc. then it has to be paid for. I can't stress this enough. We're borrowing insane amours of money and it can't go on forever. Either pay the tax or say goodbye to public services.

 

Edited by Warlord
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28 minutes ago, Warlord said:

Councils are elected and accountable. If it was set by them a crippling bill would see them voted out in short order.

I don't think we would see crippling bills with 1-3%. Ir would be different in different areas. Those in London and SE would see their bills go up alot though I admit but if you want an NHS etc. then it has to be paid for. I can't stress this enough. We're borrowing insane amours of money and it can't go on forever. Either pay the tax or say goodbye to public services.

 

The reason why taxes probably need to be raised at the moment is not the NHS. It's because of the economic implosion and government spending money to address it (e.g. furlough money).

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It’s amazing how the Uber wealthy cope with paying tens if not hundreds of thousands a year in property tax on their mega mansions in California, Manhattan or Paris but it would be the end of the world if they were forced to pay more than £1600 a year (the Band H council tax in Westminster) on their Knightsbridge and Belgravia mansions.

And of course it’s only £1200 for a bachelor oligarch ones he gets his single person discount!

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There needs to be a new formula which is a combination of poll tax and property value.

So a family with four adults living in a low value house in the north would pay more than a little old lady living alone in a bungalow in the SE, as there are more of them using services but the bachelor oligarch mentioned above in his Belgravia mansion would pay a lot more than both of them.

Edited by Glenn
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15 hours ago, GodlessEndeavor said:

The US has lower taxes in general. Just because they have a single high tax we can find which happens to be higher than the UK's corresponding version, does not mean this is a good idea for the UK.

I have family in Florida, Nashville and New York. I would agree the taxes are as a basket lower but when this is added in not as markedly lower as assumed especially if you add in Health Insurance.

Our current system is patently absurd with a higher rate of £325k+ so a person with a one bed flat in Hackney pays the same as a billionaire with a £20 million pile in Belgravia (subject to local council adjustment)

My point is not around the fact it is a high tax (ours doesn't have to be ) just more equitable 

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On 15/08/2020 at 17:27, Simhadri said:

Says a stock market parasite who leeches off hard work of employees and makes money without moving his @$$?

......a gamble, winners and losers......some landlords buy well and have tenants that look after their property and pay their rents regularly and on time.

Others are not so fortunate........swings and roundabouts.?

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On 8/14/2020 at 6:28 PM, Simhadri said:

Yeah hearing lot of jealous squeals from those who want 2007 prices in 2020 ???

Cannot argue with that I'm afraid.

On 8/14/2020 at 7:39 PM, AAA said:

All this furlough nonsense was done mainly to prevent house prices from falling.

Rubbish it was done to try to save jobs for people who need to work to have money to pay for food. 

On 8/14/2020 at 7:54 PM, Switch625 said:
On 8/14/2020 at 7:34 PM, Trump Invective said:

Yeah I love the jealousy argument.

It's a remarkably childish argument, always reminds me of badly behaved kids in a playground .... tragic.

Buit uit is sadly true very often.

There are plenty of people out there who have far more money than I do.  A bigger house than I have.  A more expensive car than I have.  A yacht. A private plane.  Why would I care.

Good luck to them.

I am happy with what I have and my family I do not care if others have more wealth than I d.  I feel no envy whatsoever.


As long as I and my family and friends are healthy I am happy.  

 

On 8/14/2020 at 6:54 PM, Switch625 said:

Decrying the impoverishment of a generation of younger people in this country by a select group that have manipulated a basic human need to further their own ends isn't jealousy.

Laughing at those that have been unfairly disadvantaged by the unscrupulous actions of others is however fustian and conceited.

 

1 - I do not see anyone laughing at anyone who cannot afford to buy a house.

2 - It is the younger people who love mass uncontrolled immigration and who have no concept of the idea of supply and demand.  They seem unable to understand that every action has a consequence.  

3 - Ranting that some people are bad people because they have been able to afford to buy a house is indeed jealousy.

4 - I won my own house - should I feel guilty about that. I do not I worked hard for it.  ( I am 32). 

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