House just fell through

[Locke]

2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

It is so easy to dismiss people as feckless but the statistics show that we're largely shaped by our environment and upbringing. Children born into a certain environment will mostly underperform.

Totally agree.

2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

This isn't equality of opportunity. If it was, there would be no real patterns in who does well later in life.

Genetics is still 80% of intelligence which is the biggest predictor of income. You wouldn't say we need to correct inequality in basketball talent due to height.

2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

A society which can successfully address that problem will be a much more pleasant place to live.

Providing benefits to low quality people by robbing productive people increases the number of children born into adverse circumstances, while decreasing the capacity for children to be born into better circumstances.

The more the government intervenes, the worse it gets for everyone, except for the tiny group of politically well-connected elites.

[Si1]

3 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Agree Winkie - There are but its my experience that I have a better 'hit' rate with youngsters of all backgrounds if they come from two parent stable families, have  rounded interests , studied reasonably hard at school and so forth.

Funny enough these families tend to be hard working and have a reasonable lifestyle 

 

There's an interesting correlation in education and work outcomes.

Kids 'achieve' in life (that is not necessarily megabucks, rather get educated and hold down a job etc) not from a background of money, but rather a background of supportive responsive parents, even if their parents are poor. This is statistically founded.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Si1

[Si1]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

Maybe the feckless employees have been burnt by previous employers in the past,  give 6 years worth of service and you are rewarded at the end with the minimum legal redundancy payment of one weeks pay for every year from a 2 billion turn over company. 

 

Of course you multiply that over a few generations of learned helplessness and you lose loyalty of any form.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Si1

[longgone]

16 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

Agree and I said this 15 years ago when we were making redundancies and taking away pension benefits. That has continued ever since and the redundancies almost seem timed to keep everyone one their toes’. How do they expect new employees to care or even be scared when the employers offer little more than a money cheque. 

When I started in 87 as a filing clerk I was offered a job for life and a pension....albeit the goalposts change but at the time that’s what I believed I was getting. So almost every moment of the next 30 years were driven to serve my benefactor. I had a career plan and aspirational jobs I wanted and successfully achieved that  

The security allowed me to do other things, create wealth, enjoy annual holidays with the kids and live well. Nothing I wouldn’t do for my employer. 

Appreciate a monthly cheque is important (Indeed vital) but without that loyalty given then it shouldn’t be such a surprise when none is received in return. 

Timing like everything else, sadly in 87 i was only 9 so was unable to commit to an employer feckless i know but laws is laws.   

The golden years were the 80`s and 90`s for everyday employees good pensions cheap housing etc etc although the IT gravy train continued utill mid 00`s for some till IR35 and that krap. 

i have witnessed some shocking behavior from employers, strangely like you mentioned redundancy scares always seem to be mentioned just before Christmas. holiday entitlement requests constantly denied by managers trying to instill fear of losing ones jobs should they not perform more tasks than actually required for the job. 

Once they know you have  family commitments and mortgages they will turn the screws to keep you inline, all the information is there the mangers toolbox for screwing their employees.  i have yet to work in one environment where do they do not behave like this. 

commitments no thanks. 

got made redundant in 2006 and i counted 37 interviews after this until 2008 not one would behave in any sort of human way in the interview process and all think the same way looking to gauge if they can control you, none will take you at face value anymore if one skill or aspect of your cv does not fit in it goes in the bin. 

i think i need to start a proper business and say bye to all of this krap ?

 

 

[longgone]

2 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Of course you multiply that over a few generations of learned helplessness and you lose loyalty.

There is no loyalty anywhere when TSHTF you will find out soon enough. 

[dugsbody]

25 minutes ago, Locke said:

The more the government intervenes, the worse it gets for everyone, except for the tiny group of politically well-connected elites.

It's an interesting idea but provably untrue. Countries with low intervention (welfare state) have a lot more violent crime and are more unpleasant places to live.

[winkie]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

designer babies are available, did you never watch twins growing up ?

Never judge a book by its cover.

[PeanutButter]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

designer babies are available, did you never watch twins growing up ?

I wish it was like twins.

1000 of them stranded right now. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/29/up-to-1000-babies-born-to-surrogate-mothers-stranded-in-russia

Poor women selling their wombs for rental. Late stage capitalism will stop at nothing. We’re all just commodities. 

[PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, longgone said:

 

i think i need to start a proper business and say bye to all of this krap ?

 

 

Me too. I have an idea for one but after being an employee my whole life it’s daunting.

[Mat1111]

1 hour ago, Locke said:

Totally agree.

Genetics is still 80% of intelligence which is the biggest predictor of income. You wouldn't say we need to correct inequality in basketball talent due to height.

Providing benefits to low quality people by robbing productive people increases the number of children born into adverse circumstances, while decreasing the capacity for children to be born into better circumstances.

The more the government intervenes, the worse it gets for everyone, except for the tiny group of politically well-connected elites.

50-80%

[longgone]

32 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Me too. I have an idea for one but after being an employee my whole life it’s daunting.

it is and its hard to make the break if you are employed, but i have nothing to lose  

[longgone]

3 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I wish it was like twins.

1000 of them stranded right now. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/29/up-to-1000-babies-born-to-surrogate-mothers-stranded-in-russia

Poor women selling their wombs for rental. Late stage capitalism will stop at nothing. We’re all just commodities. 

perfectly good usable unwanted babies in orphanages all over they place and then they want a new model. typical consumerist attitude. 

new phones new babies

 

[micawber]

6 hours ago, longgone said:

i have witnessed some shocking behavior from employers, strangely like you mentioned redundancy scares always seem to be mentioned just before Christmas. holiday entitlement requests constantly denied by managers trying to instill fear of losing ones jobs should they not perform more tasks than actually required for the job. 

Once they know you have  family commitments and mortgages they will turn the screws to keep you inline, all the information is there the mangers toolbox for screwing their employees.  i have yet to work in one environment where do they do not behave like this. 

You must be working in some kind of Dickensian dystopia! I kept trying to be made redundant without success and gave up waiting for the "bonus" to add to my early retirement fund.

[longgone]

2 hours ago, micawber said:

You must be working in some kind of Dickensian dystopia! I kept trying to be made redundant without success and gave up waiting for the "bonus" to add to my early retirement fund.

Maybe or just unlucky you get used to after a while.

[qejunkie]

2 hours ago, micawber said:

You must be working in some kind of Dickensian dystopia! I kept trying to be made redundant without success and gave up waiting for the "bonus" to add to my early retirement fund.

So you quit?

[micawber]

10 hours ago, qejunkie said:

So you quit?

Yes. Early retired. No amount of potential redundancy could compensate for yet more development planning, performance appraisal, bell curve fitting, town halls, team meeting, compliance training, diversity awareness training, etc. A man has limits!

[qejunkie]

15 minutes ago, micawber said:

Yes. Early retired. No amount of potential redundancy could compensate for yet more development planning, performance appraisal, bell curve fitting, town halls, team meeting, compliance training, diversity awareness training, etc. A man has limits!

They won the war of attrition then. Ultimately they wore you down so they didn't pay. Sorry to hear that. 

[winkie]

19 minutes ago, micawber said:

Yes. Early retired. No amount of potential redundancy could compensate for yet more development planning, performance appraisal, bell curve fitting, town halls, team meeting, compliance training, diversity awareness training, etc. A man has limits!

You won't regret it.

[micawber]

4 minutes ago, winkie said:

You won't regret it.

Yep. 6 years now. Time is flying. I just need to stop wasting too much time on here!

Looking back at that working time, it's no wonder that we have a productivity issue.

[winkie]

8 minutes ago, micawber said:

Yep. 6 years now. Time is flying. I just need to stop wasting too much time on here!

Looking back at that working time, it's no wonder that we have a productivity issue.

All the time in the world.....far too many are doing unproductive work.....their employers are buying their time, to be honest if know doing something productive and worthwhile all well and good......working life should not be a prison sentence.......

[spyguy]

20 hours ago, Si1 said:

There's an interesting correlation in education and work outcomes.

Kids 'achieve' in life (that is not necessarily megabucks, rather get educated and hold down a job etc) not from a background of money, but rather a background of supportive responsive parents, even if their parents are poor. This is statistically founded.

Average person needs a few year after education to sort out what they want to do.

This normally involves a few changes of jobs.

Of my peer groups, kids who were kicked out at 16  'Stand on your own two feet!' ironically coming from benefit mother, did worse than kids who were able to try a few jobs out.

One of the insanities of the expansion of HE is that this period has now moved from 16/18, where you did have a window of benefit of the doubt, to 22/23, where the the window and opportunities are much smaller.

 

[spyguy]

55 minutes ago, micawber said:

Yes. Early retired. No amount of potential redundancy could compensate for yet more development planning, performance appraisal, bell curve fitting, town halls, team meeting, compliance training, diversity awareness training, etc. A man has limits!

That fraud was all GE and Jack Welsh big swinging dick f-wittery BS.

GE are lurching down n down as they sell up the con that it is.

If GE equity holders are lucky then they have a few pennies left after all the assets have been sold to pay off the creditors.

In short - IT DOESNT WORK.

Its why the big US compnaies are all software or relatively new. The titans of yesteryear are still sat in planning meetings, working how to apply their management genius to a whole new sector (software) which they dont understand.

 

[satsuma]

1 hour ago, micawber said:

Yes. Early retired. No amount of potential redundancy could compensate for yet more development planning, performance appraisal, bell curve fitting, town halls, team meeting, compliance training, diversity awareness training, etc. A man has limits!

I was in a similar mindset but am too far off retirement.  I went self employed instead and it’s going well but a bit stressful, I am very busy, apart from that it’s great and my health and appearance and finances improved.  I witnessed very poor behavior from about 2015 onwards when decency went out the window driven by mindless cost cutting and profit chasing.  Many incompetent Executives covering their behinds was another issue and it became difficult to raise issues.  You see this reading out with grounding of fleets of faulty aircraft for example.  I’m independent now and my wife listens to me on calls and says I’m too blunt and direct, it’s difficult not to be but I don’t have to live in fear of retaliation from an employer now. 
 One experience sticks in my mind when I joined a new company, they brought me in for onboarding, there was a bit of lunch bought in, tick box exercise, the HR person raced through almost offensive diversity training which felt like a warning, tick box exercise, apart from that nothing was done apart from a login to say I read about 100 procedures, tick box exercise.  Awful place and I will not be back to one of these companies.  Too many decent people were railroaded there in one way or another.  Usually this comes home to roost.  I have friends telling me to expand my business but I don’t want a load of backbiting to deal with and the tick box culture would drive me nuts.  

[micawber]

1 hour ago, satsuma said:

I was in a similar mindset but am too far off retirement.  I went self employed instead and it’s going well but a bit stressful, I am very busy, apart from that it’s great and my health and appearance and finances improved.  I witnessed very poor behavior from about 2015 onwards when decency went out the window driven by mindless cost cutting and profit chasing.  Many incompetent Executives covering their behinds was another issue and it became difficult to raise issues.  You see this reading out with grounding of fleets of faulty aircraft for example.  I’m independent now and my wife listens to me on calls and says I’m too blunt and direct, it’s difficult not to be but I don’t have to live in fear of retaliation from an employer now. 
 One experience sticks in my mind when I joined a new company, they brought me in for onboarding, there was a bit of lunch bought in, tick box exercise, the HR person raced through almost offensive diversity training which felt like a warning, tick box exercise, apart from that nothing was done apart from a login to say I read about 100 procedures, tick box exercise.  Awful place and I will not be back to one of these companies.  Too many decent people were railroaded there in one way or another.  Usually this comes home to roost.  I have friends telling me to expand my business but I don’t want a load of backbiting to deal with and the tick box culture would drive me nuts.  

Agreed! 3x! People/staff can be so difficult to deal with. I had to rate the performance of a systems development team once. You know: 1=Sig Exceed Expectations, 2=Exceed, 3=Met, 4=Didn't meet, 5= Fire( I joke). I scored them a three. They were shocked and insulted and said that every other project owner had given them 1's. I told them that they delivered on-time, to budget and to spec. That's meeting expectations. A 1 or 2 would have required ahead of schedule or below budget. I refused to rate any more teams after that!

[satsuma]

1 hour ago, micawber said:

Agreed! 3x! People/staff can be so difficult to deal with. I had to rate the performance of a systems development team once. You know: 1=Sig Exceed Expectations, 2=Exceed, 3=Met, 4=Didn't meet, 5= Fire( I joke). I scored them a three. They were shocked and insulted and said that every other project owner had given them 1's. I told them that they delivered on-time, to budget and to spec. That's meeting expectations. A 1 or 2 would have required ahead of schedule or below budget. I refused to rate any more teams after that!

I was not a fan of the feedback process and the good has been taken out of it by structured feedback like that that is often used for metrics.  I watched a team start with horrendous metrics when these were requested in the morning and after a bit of goalpost shifting they looked like stars before the metrics were reported.  The same metrics would be used by the goal shifters to boot people out if it suited their needs the next day.  I’m trying to think of a catch phrase for this but can’t find one better than the old “double think”.