The Brewing Russia/China conflict thread

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

The UK seems to be wanting to develop a new approach to dealing with Russia and China, which I guess tracks the US. The new battlefronts seem to be cyber, satellite, subsea cables etc.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8561101/UK-defend-against-Chinese-Russian-space-weapons.html

But was very worrying and very 1984 in the  article is the phrase by Defence Secretary Ben Wallace:

“Our adversaries go further, deeper and higher. The binary distinction between peace and war has vanished”

Remind you of anything?

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War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, and Ignorance Is Strength

[onlooker]

7 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

The UK seems to be wanting to develop a new approach to dealing with Russia and China, which I guess tracks the US. The new battlefronts seem to be cyber, satellite, subsea cables etc.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8561101/UK-defend-against-Chinese-Russian-space-weapons.html

But was very worrying and very 1984 in the  article is the phrase by Defence Secretary Ben Wallace:

“Our adversaries go further, deeper and higher. The binary distinction between peace and war has vanished”

Remind you of anything?

———————————————————

War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, and Ignorance Is Strength

How do you define peace and war? When the Ruskies leave nerve gas or Polonium lying around in the UK capable of killing thousands, or the Chinese who plot to infiltrate our communications and energy systems. While at the same time, we have become (at least partly) dependent on them for money in case of Russia or technology in the case of the Chinese.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

9 minutes ago, onlooker said:

How do you define peace and war? When the Ruskies leave nerve gas or Polonium lying around in the UK capable of killing thousands, or the Chinese who plot to infiltrate our communications and energy systems. While at the same time, we have become (at least partly) dependent on them for money in case of Russia or technology in the case of the Chinese.

That is what I was looking to prompt as a discussion.

In the past these things may have been described as acts of war. Now they are often condemned with little or no action being taken.

Which encourages further infractions. But then I guess we don’t want to start an actual war.

 

 

[onlooker]

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

That is what I was looking to prompt as a discussion.

In the past these things may have been described as acts of war. Now they are often condemned with little or no action being taken.

Which encourages further infractions. But then I guess we don’t want to start an actual war.

 

 

It is wrong I think, to imagine that in days gone by when the UK was a superpower, these sorts of provocations would automatically have led to war. A lot of Victorian diplomacy was expended in keeping Britain out of foreign adventures. We avoided the American Civil War, the Franco-Prussian and Danish-Prussian wars, and a whole load of smaller conflicts which had a bad impact on the UK's safety or prosperity, at the time. WW1 only started because the UK's naval supremacy was ultimately threatened by German expansionism.

The country has to choose its conflicts and allies carefully. But better to make sure the country isn't vulnerable to Russian or Chinese pressure in the first place.

Edit to add - that rather puts the dampner on Globalization.

Edited July 26 by onlooker

[qejunkie]

The problem right now is that when it comes to Russia, the EU (Germany) are intent in appeasement. Mainly because they have no military and would get rolled over in a day. Plus they have the buffer zone of former USSR countries. And when it comes to China, the EU (Germany) a admire their organised (aka authoritarian) system of communo-capitalism. So the UK just has to follow the USA’s lead. 

Edited July 26 by qejunkie