People on Furlough can only borrow £4.50.

[HovelinHove]

Salary equivalent to £1 to lenders

I think that anyone who has taken any of the governments funny money will be shunned by the banks for the foreseeable future. The bottom is going to be yanked out of this market. 9 million on furlough, no one knows how many will have jobs at the end.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by HovelinHove

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

Atrocious english. 

[dirtysteve]

This graph is staggering!!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1116638/uk-number-of-people-on-furlough/

 

[HovelinHove]

7 hours ago, dirtysteve said:

This graph is staggering!!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1116638/uk-number-of-people-on-furlough/

 

Mind boggling, and none of these can get a mortgage, and might not be able to get one for a few months after they come off furlough...if they retain their jobs. How many of those will end up unemployed? 2-3 million? And these aren’t just sandwich sellers.

My wife works for a physiotherapist, and they furloughed their staff at the start of lockdown. The owner tried to get the staff to start work again at the beginning of July as their was huge growing demand for people to have treatment, but the physios wanted none of it, they are enjoying their holiday too much. The business may go bust now though, or at the very least lay off half the physios in September.

I personally think that everyone who was furloughed should have a higher rate of income tax after this. Why should others have to pay for it?

Edited July 26, 2020 by HovelinHove

[Bluestone59]

2 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

 

I personally think that everyone who was furloughed should have a higher rate of income tax after this. Why should others have to pay for it?

Do you therefore think that anyone in receipt of benefits should also go onto your higher income tax rate? 

Furlough is after all a benefit which arose from a situation not of the recipients' making. It is also designed in reality to help the economy, the property markets and business in general. And the banks, some folk will pay off debts with it.

A reason for its existence is in part the habit of governments and bankers discouraging personal saving and self reliance. 

Effectively, most benefits money gets recycled back to the wealthy anyway.

As for myself, as an example, I've missed out on all the forced appreciation of property values by HMGs since 1995 but have had to contribute to the cost. 

So I've taken my furlough completely without a scintilla of guilt.

 

 

[HovelinHove]

1 hour ago, Bluestone59 said:

Do you therefore think that anyone in receipt of benefits should also go onto your higher income tax rate? 

Furlough is after all a benefit which arose from a situation not of the recipients' making. It is also designed in reality to help the economy, the property markets and business in general. And the banks, some folk will pay off debts with it.

A reason for its existence is in part the habit of governments and bankers discouraging personal saving and self reliance. 

Effectively, most benefits money gets recycled back to the wealthy anyway.

As for myself, as an example, I've missed out on all the forced appreciation of property values by HMGs since 1995 but have had to contribute to the cost. 

So I've taken my furlough completely without a scintilla of guilt.

 

 

You may not feel guilt, but you should feel shame that you don’t recognise you are benefitting from the generosity of others, and show zero desire to play even a small part in returning what was given to you. This country is full of feckless leeches.

[Peter Hun]

11 hours ago, dirtysteve said:

This graph is staggering!!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1116638/uk-number-of-people-on-furlough/

 

Yes an invisible graph. I'm not paying for it.

Care to tell us what it says.

[Peter Hun]

7 minutes ago, HovelinHove said:

You may not feel guilt, but you should feel shame that you don’t recognise you are benefitting from the generosity of others, and show zero desire to play even a small part in returning what was given to you. This country is full of feckless leeches.

The governments incompetence is entirely responsible for the economic damage. So its entirely the governments responsibility to support those hurt by its actions.

The rest of us taxpayers voted this government in, so we have to pay for it. 

[zugzwang]

15 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

Salary equivalent to £1 to lenders

I think that anyone who has taken any of the governments funny money will be shunned by the banks for the foreseeable future. The bottom is going to be yanked out of this market. 9 million on furlough, no one knows how many will have jobs at the end.

 

 

No-one's had more funny money off the govt than the banks. They're the reason this country's fornicated, twit. Not C-19.

[Bluestone59]

14 minutes ago, HovelinHove said:

You may not feel guilt, but you should feel shame that you don’t recognise you are benefitting from the generosity of others, and show zero desire to play even a small part in returning what was given to you. This country is full of feckless leeches.

Nope. I don't feel "shame" as I DO recognise I'm benefitting from other people's taxes which is not an unusual outcome for many people in the country.  I will of course be paying it back as will all taxpayers. You are in effect suggesting a surcharge.  Ok, lets make all benefits loans then except sickness related.

Many others have benefitted from my taxes which I'm still paying and have been since 1966. You don't know enough about me to call me a feckless leech. I've been leeched off continually and now this one has fallen my way. If you have doubts about the morality of the scheme you should make your representations to HMG via your MP or to Sunak directly.

It's not different from any other benefit except by virtue of its structure. And paying taxes is hardly "generosity" seeing as it's compulsory unless you're very rich.

[dirtysteve]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

Yes an invisible graph. I'm not paying for it.

Care to tell us what it says.

As of July 19, 2020, approximately 9.5 million jobs, from 1.2 million different employers were furloughed in the United Kingdom as part of the government's job retention scheme.

 

[dirtysteve]

Staggering because as of July 19th it’s still as high as 9.5M. That’s a staggering amount of people still furloughed and potentially facing redundancy.

[Lord D'arcy Pew]

19 minutes ago, dirtysteve said:

Staggering because as of July 19th it’s still as high as 9.5M. That’s a staggering amount of people still furloughed and potentially facing redundancy.

The B Ark?

These tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things, and the B Ark would hold everyone else, such as hairdressers and telephone sanitisers. They sent the B ship off first, but of course, the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone.

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Ship_B

Edited July 26, 2020 by Lord D'arcy Pew

[A17]

18 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

Salary equivalent to £1 to lenders

I think that anyone who has taken any of the governments funny money will be shunned by the banks for the foreseeable future. The bottom is going to be yanked out of this market. 9 million on furlough, no one knows how many will have jobs at the end.

 

 

Why would anybody currently furloughed be thinking of taking a mortgage? You would have to be extremely confident that your job would come back!

[Society of fools]

8 minutes ago, A17 said:

Why would anybody currently furloughed be thinking of taking a mortgage? You would have to be extremely confident that your job would come back

Wasn't it Einstein who said that the only two things that were truly infinite were the Universe and Human Stupidity, and that he wasn't actually sure about the Universe ? 

[MarkD]

For the last 3 months furloughing employees has been a no brainier. From this point onward business owners will need to make some cold hard decisions. I know of a couple people who are in for a nasty surprise, my guess is there will be many more.

[A17]

1 hour ago, Society of fools said:

Wasn't it Einstein who said that the only two things that were truly infinite were the Universe and Human Stupidity, and that he wasn't actually sure about the Universe ? 

The only thing I can think of is that people are coming to the end of fixed term deals, and need to remortgage or go onto the SVR. It will be interesting to see how they cope with that.

[spyguy]

9 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

Mind boggling, and none of these can get a mortgage, and might not be able to get one for a few months after they come off furlough...if they retain their jobs. How many of those will end up unemployed? 2-3 million? And these aren’t just sandwich sellers.

My wife works for a physiotherapist, and they furloughed their staff at the start of lockdown. The owner tried to get the staff to start work again at the beginning of July as their was huge growing demand for people to have treatment, but the physios wanted none of it, they are enjoying their holiday too much. The business may go bust now though, or at the very least lay off half the physios in September.

I personally think that everyone who was furloughed should have a higher rate of income tax after this. Why should others have to pay for it?

No.

Ukgov banned these people from working. Ukgov had to pay these people.

I've been working from home for coming up to 4 months. Not all people can.

My gut feeling is that somewhere between 25%-50% people whove been furloughed will find themselves with life changing reduction in income.

The demand from physio ought yo be, considering how many people I know sat on hard, unadjustable dining chairs for 7h a day.

 

[nightowl]

Introducing the furlough payments as a concept as quick as the Chancellor did was in no way a bad thing as it dealt with the uncertainty of the time.   The real dilemma is the exit strategy and who pays for it in a fair way? 

Those who went to work as normal or just ended up on JSA will be resentful of not getting a paid 'holiday' and then paying for someone elses.

Now, had the Gov announced that furloughed employees had to repay at least some (or all) of those payments back in April I wonder how many would have been so keen on lockdown lasting as long as it did back then?

[HovelinHove]

5 hours ago, Bluestone59 said:

Nope. I don't feel "shame" as I DO recognise I'm benefitting from other people's taxes which is not an unusual outcome for many people in the country.  I will of course be paying it back as will all taxpayers. You are in effect suggesting a surcharge.  Ok, lets make all benefits loans then except sickness related.

Many others have benefitted from my taxes which I'm still paying and have been since 1966. You don't know enough about me to call me a feckless leech. I've been leeched off continually and now this one has fallen my way. If you have doubts about the morality of the scheme you should make your representations to HMG via your MP or to Sunak directly.

It's not different from any other benefit except by virtue of its structure. And paying taxes is hardly "generosity" seeing as it's compulsory unless you're very rich.

You make some good points, but I have written to my MP. I was in agreement with furlough at the start as we needed to bring the surge under control, and the only way was shutting down society for a few weeks...but since then, and since we have known that the vast majority of people of working age have absolutely nothing to fear from this virus (I worked in virology for 15 years, and was super cautious at the start, but follow the data), the reasons for furlough have been non-existent, but too many people have been all too happy to take it because there is no cost to them (or so they think). No one should have been on furlough since the end of May at the latest, and now it is insanity, but the government can’t ween them off...if they made it like student loans then people would be back at work in shot.

[HovelinHove]

58 minutes ago, nightowl said:

Introducing the furlough payments as a concept as quick as the Chancellor did was in no way a bad thing as it dealt with the uncertainty of the time.   The real dilemma is the exit strategy and who pays for it in a fair way? 

Those who went to work as normal or just ended up on JSA will be resentful of not getting a paid 'holiday' and then paying for someone elses.

Now, had the Gov announced that furloughed employees had to repay at least some (or all) of those payments back in April I wonder how many would have been so keen on lockdown lasting as long as it did back then?

Precisely. The first month should have ben on the government, but after that no. I basically cancelled my Conservative party membership over this. Might as well have had Corbyn in power.

[HovelinHove]

2 hours ago, A17 said:

Why would anybody currently furloughed be thinking of taking a mortgage? You would have to be extremely confident that your job would come back!

I think the point from my perspective is not that they will be thinking of getting a new mortgage, but they might have been had it not been for furlough. I’d say a good percentage of these will be people who are first time buyers or mover uppers, and back in January they might have been thinking about buying their first home or getting out of their flat And buying a semi, but now they can’t, and won’t be able to until at least 3 months after furlough has ended (the government’s £1000 bonus is dependent on keeping them on 3 months, so the banks will probably use this as the cut off for considering job security). 9.5 million people (couples) have effectively been removed from the mortgage market until Q1 2021. That is absolutely insane.

[HovelinHove]

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

No.

Ukgov banned these people from working. Ukgov had to pay these people.

I've been working from home for coming up to 4 months. Not all people can.

My gut feeling is that somewhere between 25%-50% people whove been furloughed will find themselves with life changing reduction in income.

The demand from physio ought yo be, considering how many people I know sat on hard, unadjustable dining chairs for 7h a day.

 

The government have ben a complete disaster and I voted for them. My head literally popped when Sunak announced that the scheme would be extended till October when at that stage there was absolutely no need to do that. Now there are lots of people who just don’t want to go back to work...they are truly feckless....not all, just those who won’t go back to work because they’d rather do nothing on other people’s money. (I would possibly be the same if I had that choice.)

[Bluestone59]

1 hour ago, HovelinHove said:

The government have ben a complete disaster and I voted for them. My head literally popped when Sunak announced that the scheme would be extended till October when at that stage there was absolutely no need to do that. Now there are lots of people who just don’t want to go back to work...they are truly feckless....not all, just those who won’t go back to work because they’d rather do nothing on other people’s money. (I would possibly be the same if I had that choice.)

Aha!  So I'm not a feckless leech after all.

First week of August I'm returning to work even though it's half the hours paid pro rata.

(However, I do admit that I was one some years ago).

[Bluestone59]

2 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

You make some good points, but I have written to my MP. I was in agreement with furlough at the start as we needed to bring the surge under control, and the only way was shutting down society for a few weeks...but since then, and since we have known that the vast majority of people of working age have absolutely nothing to fear from this virus (I worked in virology for 15 years, and was super cautious at the start, but follow the data), the reasons for furlough have been non-existent, but too many people have been all too happy to take it because there is no cost to them (or so they think). No one should have been on furlough since the end of May at the latest, and now it is insanity, but the government can’t ween them off...if they made it like student loans then people would be back at work in shot.

Thank you for the response. 

I didn't tell you that when on furlough I received the 80% and not for the full duration of it. Plus I'm going back to work next month. 

I think you're right about the level of generosity and it makes me think HMG might have some figures suggesting that otherwise the whole country was going to close down, or similar.

Apart from trying to starve Universal Credit applicants to death and making JSA nigh impossible to claim (both unacceptable actions IMO) none of our governments seems to have done much to curb benefits, too many votes in them.

This and their addiction to costly housing isn't sustainable and will kill the country, ultimately.  If the madness sparks off high inflation, which I doubt but not impossible, then recipients of furlough will pay twice unless wages increase (unlikely), once in higher prices and again in taxes.

I have nigh zero confidence in Sunak, or in any of them really.