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Brits are still inherently Capitalist


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2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Another black and white "if it's not aligned with my view it's the opposite extreme, all the same" way of looking at things. With that degree of simplification only authoritarianism or anarchy are meaningful. In reality you need more than the tiniest hint of socialism to make something socialist, just as much as a hint of capitalism doesn't make a system capitalist.

It really is quite simple. True honest socialism requires a threat of violence, true honest capitalism does not.

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42 minutes ago, cnick said:

It really is quite simple. True honest socialism requires a threat of violence, true honest capitalism does not.

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Care to show where in the tenents of Marxism this is required? 

 

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2 hours ago, onlooker said:

Your knowledge of Marx and Marxists is incomplete. Karl Marx thought workers should be protected from low cost immigrant labour (https://monthlyreview.org/2017/02/01/marx-on-immigration/)

Kier Hardy was of the same opinion, campaigning against Russian coal miners working in Scottish pits.

I've read plenty of Marx thank you.

And you're also wrong. Or rather, it's taken out of context I think.

Marx DIDN'T advocate for nationalism or protectionism to counter the problem of immigrant labour. He advocated for internationalism (unity amongst workers across the world). 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, cnick said:

It really is quite simple. True honest socialism requires a threat of violence, true honest capitalism does not.

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That's so simplistic I'm embarrassed for you I think.

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19 hours ago, msi said:

We don't have true capitalism.  You have a crony based oligarchy masquerading as something honest and decent.

I

Exactly. Just look at the corona virus app. Given to a new company run by Baroness Harding, who caused huge problems at Talk Talk was it? Then surprise, surprise the app was a disaster. They could have just as easily outsourced it to a tech company directly who knew what they were doing (my understanding is Harding subcontracted it to a tech company, who have even publicly commented that they knew it could not work but could not believe their luck at getting so much money for not an awful lot of work! That combined with people in the UK setup not wanting to hear it won't work anyway). Or if even got the German app for free given they open sourced it and it apparently does work.

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50 minutes ago, cnick said:

It really is quite simple. True honest socialism requires a threat of violence, true honest capitalism does not.

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hmm. But in many capitalist countries people have so little they resort to crime to make ends meet. The state uses the threat of violence to try and control that.

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1 minute ago, MancTom said:

hmm. But in many capitalist countries people have so little they resort to crime to make ends meet. The state uses the threat of violence to try and control that.

There is always the option of private police / security forces indeed in some affluent areas where the state has given up residents chip in and employ private security ,

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4 minutes ago, MancTom said:

hmm. But in many capitalist countries people have so little they resort to crime to make ends meet. The state uses the threat of violence to try and control that.

Yes, without doubt, the socialist state employs a better class of threat of violence. Wondering if there might be a better way.

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15 minutes ago, byron78 said:

I've read plenty of Marx thank you.

And you're also wrong. Or rather, it's taken out of context I think.

Marx DIDN'T advocate for nationalism or protectionism to counter the problem of immigrant labour. He advocated for internationalism (unity amongst workers across the world). 

 

What ever name they wish to attach to it.... nationalism and protectionism are things that only bring division and conflict amoungst men.....?

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I joined this forum as a bitter socialist. It's turned me into a capitalist.

Was it Napoleon who said Britain was a nation of shopkeepers? :huh: It'll become a nation of tenants if home ownership carries on a decline.

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1 hour ago, winkie said:

Got the book....how an economy grows and why it crashes.....just because read it doesn't mean agree with it.?

that's a good book @winkie especially for anyone  who wants to understand economics.  He tells the story of the island etc. from memory. Long time since I read it :)  but he explains a number of concepts in a way people can understand .

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27 minutes ago, Warlord said:

that's a good book @winkie especially for anyone  who wants to understand economics.  He tells the story of the island etc. from memory. Long time since I read it :)  but he explains a number of concepts in a way people can understand .

Thing is gold and coin not my thing......you read the selfish capitalist? Worth a look.?

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2 hours ago, MattW said:

I joined this forum as a bitter socialist. It's turned me into a capitalist.

Was it Napoleon who said Britain was a nation of shopkeepers? :huh: It'll become a nation of tenants if home ownership carries on a decline.

I chuckled at this!

I'm 81 soon, multiple silver spoons my entire life, Tory member my whole life, and I think I've gone somewhat the other way!

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6 hours ago, cnick said:

It really is quite simple. True honest socialism requires a threat of violence, true honest capitalism does not.

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You're talking in riddles.

With the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, and then the USSR in 1991, it was largely assumed that laissez faire had triumphed as regulated Europe began to follow Reagan-Thatcher-Friedman policies and deregulate; The End of History was proclaimed, no less. But the failed realisation of Pareto optimality via an unregulated shadow banking system was exposed by the popping of the worldwide credit bubble in 2007/8. It took all the world's treasuries and central banks acting in concert together to prevent financial markets going into a runaway delveraging meltdown and hence avert a Second Great Depression.

 

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13 hours ago, Warlord said:

That is absolutely ridiculous. Bear in mind the hard pressed taxpayer who pays tax all his/her life then wants to pass something on to their kids and you want to take 100% !!! 

That would turn us into Zimbabwe/Venezuela etc. states that confiscate wealth and are authoritarian and POOR.

Stealing is wrong even if its the state.  Inheritance tax should be 0. And by the way, the truly well off avoid it through exempt foundations i.e Duke of Westminster 

I start from the viewpoint that I would like a meritocracy. Earned wealth from labour should be virtually tax free I would suggest no income tax or national insurance. Just a state pension contribution. On the other hand i understand the need for taxation for the running of our state. We need army NHS and police they all need paying for. So for me the least worst tax is inheritance tax. I fundamentally believe you should make your own way. I expect not a penny from my parents and I intend to leave nothing after I die. Harry should not pay more tax than Peter just because he earns more because he studied harder or works longer hours.  Sally cannot rely on the state to subsidize her low paid job, if it isn't enough to live off then she needs to upskill and get a new job.

I would therefore pay for stuff using taxes on unearned income. So overall tax intake is the same. Without taxes on unearned income/wealth you get the perverse state that somebody is better or worse off depending on their parents decisions. That second child (brother) halfs your inheritance (so you have a vested interest in your parents sex life) being the child of a billionaire who in turn was the son of a billionaire who's family made money on the slave trade gives you a head start based upon others misery. The only way I see to reset it using inheritance tax so all money is earned and you buy that Ferrari because you deserved it through hard work. That makes life fairer and improves social mobility. And inheritance is saying the exact opposite of meritocracy it is giving a unearned advantage that is unfair.

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7 hours ago, cnick said:

It really is quite simple. True honest socialism requires a threat of violence, true honest capitalism does not.

?

Really, then why are their security contractors, police, military, and billionaires loving a heavily armed state on their side, etc?

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  • 418 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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