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Are We An Extreme Minority?


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5 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I was averaging twice as much interest on the money that I would have otherwise have had tied up in a house than I was paying out in rent in the period 2005 - 2012. FLS and TFS changed all that though.

There is also the issue of renting in retirement. Personally that sounds awful - you need a pretty huge cash buffer just to cover the rent.

Those who have paid off the mortgage and have their capital tied up, have the *small* advantage of not paying rent. Another one is equity release if really needed. 

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18 minutes ago, Speed1987 said:

Not logic...

Mortgages -  50% cheaper than renting.

IO - often 70%+ cheaper.

Capital, would be increased greatly over renting, by either of these options.

Conditions to achieve wealth increases, more likely (earning 2k a month, £450 mortgage vs £850 rent, who is winning?).

+1

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I agree that we are a minority on here, but I don’t think that we’re quite as small as some may think. I think quite a lot of the younger generations are aware of how they’ve been screwed and I’m encouraged by the amount of comments on Twitter about an appropriate event (anything to with housing or politicians). But I do think this website is perhaps left alone by many for the reasons that it’s an overwhelming amount of information to take in; it really is a big red pill to swallow, especially now since it’s been going for the best part of 20 years! Plus, let’s be fair, it has quite a history of hostile and aggressive behaviour towards differing opinions. I would imagine that would put-off a lot of people from engaging in discussion on here. Just look at the Brexit thread! 

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4 minutes ago, ForGreatLager... said:

I agree that we are a minority on here, but I don’t think that we’re quite as small as some may think. I think quite a lot of the younger generations are aware of how they’ve been screwed and I’m encouraged by the amount of comments on Twitter about an appropriate event (anything to with housing or politicians). But I do think this website is perhaps left alone by many for the reasons that it’s an overwhelming amount of information to take in; it really is a big red pill to swallow, especially now since it’s been going for the best part of 20 years! Plus, let’s be fair, it has quite a history of hostile and aggressive behaviour towards differing opinions. I would imagine that would put-off a lot of people from engaging in discussion on here. Just look at the Brexit thread! 

I still skim-read this site for nuggets of useful information, but the quality of debate is now awful.  Almost every thread just descends into two opposing factions shouting "No you're the one who is wrong" and neither side ever accepting that the opposite opinion might have some validity.  It's really sad how much it's gone downhill here and why there is very little useful knowledge to be had any more.

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8 minutes ago, captainb said:

There is also the issue of renting in retirement. Personally that sounds awful - you need a pretty huge cash buffer just to cover the rent.

Those who have paid off the mortgage and have their capital tied up, have the *small* advantage of not paying rent. Another one is equity release if really needed. 

I retired in 2008. The rent was more than paid for by the interest on the "huge cash buffer" that would have otherwise been tied up in a house.

Equity release is a hiding to nowhere.

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1 minute ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I still skim-read this site for nuggets of useful information, but the quality of debate is now awful.  Almost every thread just descends into two opposing factions shouting "No you're the one who is wrong" and neither side ever accepting that the opposite opinion might have some validity.  It's really sad how much it's gone downhill here and why there is very little useful knowledge to be had any more.

A visit to HPC these days is like living inside David Icke's head.

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19 minutes ago, captainb said:

There is also the issue of renting in retirement. Personally that sounds awful - you need a pretty huge cash buffer just to cover the rent.

Those who have paid off the mortgage and have their capital tied up, have the *small* advantage of not paying rent. Another one is equity release if really needed. 

I would say the advantage is relatively big.

Garry & John are 30.

Garry, rents for 1k a month.

John has just got a mortgage at £500- same area.

25x12x500=150,000

Garry's rent increases year on year.

35x12x1000=420,000

John's mortgage reduces, due to inflation, paying down capital & lower interest rates. 

At 65, they both retire.

John saved, 270k let's be generous, deduct 30k for property maintenance. 240k saved.

The properties are now worth 500k, Garry cannot afford to live there, he relocates to Stoke, Grimsby or Bradford.

John enjoys taking his grandchildren on holiday, playing golf and visiting massage parlours.

John wins and most John's who are sensible generally always win.

Garry leveraged his future, Garry is ******ed, don't be like Garry.

Edited by Speed1987
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6 minutes ago, Speed1987 said:

I would say the advantage is relatively big.

Garry & John are 30.

Garry, rents for 1k a month.

John has just got a mortgage at £500- same area.

25x12x500=150,000

Garry's rent increases year on year.

35x12x1000=420,000

John's mortgage reduces, due to inflation, paying down capital & lower interest rates. 

At 65, they both retire.

Garry saved, 270k let's be generous, deduct 30k for property maintenance. 240k saved.

The properties are now worth 500k, Garry cannot afford to live there, he relocates to Stoke.

John enjoys taking his grandchildren on holiday, playing golf and visiting massage parlours.

John wins and most John's who are sensible generally always win.

Garry leveraged his future, Garry is ******ed, don't be like Garry.

Eric sold his house for £500,000 in late 2019 and moved into rented while looking for something to buy.

Covid-19 happened.

Eric is now getting enough money in interest to cover half his rent.

Prices are likely to fall heavily.

Lucky Eric, should he buy or wait?

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7 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Eric sold his house for £500,000 in late 2019 and moved into rented while looking for something to buy.

Covid-19 happened.

Eric is now getting enough money in interest to cover half his rent.

Prices are likely to fall heavily.

Lucky Eric, should he buy or wait?

Hasnt that been the case according to people on here since the year 2000?

If Eric sold then not so good.. being a whole mortgage could have been paid off.

When does Eric buy again? -5%, -10%, -15%? Eric waiting for a -25% fall isnt the brightest if prices drop 20% before recovering.

Trading with hindsight is very easy. Not to say i would rush out and buy today.. wait for a fall. Just dont bet on it being some randomly huge figure based on what people say on here.

 

Also want to know where Eric is geting that interest on savings to cover half his rent at this time... 

Edited by captainb
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7 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Eric sold his house for £500,000 in late 2019 and moved into rented while looking for something to buy.

Covid-19 happened.

Eric is now getting enough money in interest to cover half his rent.

Prices are likely to fall heavily.

Lucky Eric, should he buy or wait?

Eric should build his own home in a place of his choice, with help from his friends.;)

 

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9 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Eric sold his house for £500,000 in late 2019 and moved into rented while looking for something to buy.

Covid-19 happened.

Eric is now getting enough money in interest to cover half his rent.

Prices are likely to fall heavily.

Lucky Eric, should he buy or wait?

Eric is taking a substantial risk, one which could have grave consequences.

Eric, cannot control the banks and goverment.

Eric may well buy back in after a 30% fall, however John has still done better than Garry as prices recover in 3 years.

When Eric sold, supply became heavily restricted, the banks decided not to reposses for 1 year and continue mortgage holidays.

The banks did repossess, some properties and decided against selling and rented them out or sold to a large investor.

Bank of England decided to increase the money supply, negative rates, QE, Eric has a problem house prices are now increasing.

Cash holders are buying up supply, as they dont make any money on savings.

Eric, keeps waiting for a fall, it doesn't  happen, he buys back the same house is now 575k.

Edited by Speed1987
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20 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I still skim-read this site for nuggets of useful information, but the quality of debate is now awful.  Almost every thread just descends into two opposing factions shouting "No you're the one who is wrong" and neither side ever accepting that the opposite opinion might have some validity.  It's really sad how much it's gone downhill here and why there is very little useful knowledge to be had any more.

Agreed. 

The most common debates are:

- Brexit

- "you must buy gold" types

- immediate crash vs housing will never crash

- conspiracy theorists

- Label any contrasting view as "socialist".

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1 minute ago, captainb said:

Hasnt that been the case according to people on here since the year 2000?

If Eric sold then not so good.. being a whole mortgage could have been paid off.

When does Eric buy again? -5%, -10%, -15%? Eric waiting for a -25% fall isnt the brightest if prices drop 20% before recovering.

Trading with hindsight is very easy. Not to say i would rush out and buy today.. wait for a fall. Just dont bet on it being some randomly huge figure based on what people say on here.

Who's talking about 2000?

Eric owned outright and sold in late 2019.

I owned outright, sold in 2005, and was much better off renting until 2012.

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3 minutes ago, ucnvpe0 said:

Agreed. 

The most common debates are:

- Brexit

- "you must buy gold" types

- immediate crash vs housing will never crash

- conspiracy theorists

- Label any contrasting view as "socialist".

You forgot taxation is theft?

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Just now, Bruce Banner said:

Who's talking about 2000?

Eric owned outright and sold in late 2019.

I owned outright, sold in 2005, and was much better off renting until 2012.

So Eric with the benefit of hindsight got his timing exactly right? Why did Eric sell in 2019? because he saw CV19 coming in the tea leaves?

Its not to say buy now but the notion that you can get the timing dead right to counter the massive negatives of renting on a long term basis is far fetched. You are betting on interest rates rising, might happen, might not as you found out post 2012.

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32 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I still skim-read this site for nuggets of useful information, but the quality of debate is now awful.  Almost every thread just descends into two opposing factions shouting "No you're the one who is wrong" and neither side ever accepting that the opposite opinion might have some validity.  It's really sad how much it's gone downhill here and why there is very little useful knowledge to be had any more.

Plus, although this site has some really interesting discussions, it does seem to be about applying logical reasons and solutions to illogical and corrupt situations. The Mafia shouldn’t exist, but it does. “What are you gonna do?”

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1 minute ago, captainb said:

So Eric with the benefit of hindsight got his timing exactly right? Why did Eric sell in 2019? because he saw CV19 coming in the tea leaves?

Its not to say buy now but the notion that you can get the timing dead right to counter the massive negatives of renting on a long term basis is far fetched. You are betting on interest rates rising, might happen, might not as you found out post 2012.

Because he wanted to move area? That's why I sold in 2005.

Post 2012 I still enjoyed decent rates due to fixed rate accounts.

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31 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Because he wanted to move area? That's why I sold in 2005.

Post 2012 I still enjoyed decent rates due to fixed rate accounts.

+1 Timing the market is tough but those who did it have decent retirement life.

Putting money in homes is long term investment and in long term houses have ALWAYS increased in value and provided shelter to its owner who would otherwise be spending a rent which keeps rising every year.

I thought of buying another property this year but will wait another 6 months to see if Covid can give me 10%-15% temporary drops so that I can have a decent bargain in Edinburgh.

It's not easy but not impossible.

Can't afford to see my children staying in rented home paying rent which keeps rising with inflation every year of their lives.

Poverty and homelessness are 2 evils I've experienced from close enough distance. 

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33 minutes ago, Simhadri said:

Can't afford to see my children staying in rented home paying rent which keeps rising with inflation every year of their lives.

Call me a dreamer, but if your kids generation are forced to rent, wont there be other issues asides from that?  Unemployment etc?

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20 minutes ago, blackhole said:

Call me a dreamer, but if your kids generation are forced to rent, wont there be other issues asides from that?  Unemployment etc?

Having own home reduces the pressure on them to worry about being shunted out of rental homes.

Having mortgage free home allows them to focus on their passion and career more.

Constantly having to worry about rent/bills reduces their chances of excelling at the their chosen career path.

Money doesn't solve all problems, but lack of money creates some problems which are not easy to solve and removes peace of mind.

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48 minutes ago, Simhadri said:

Having own home reduces the pressure on them to worry about being shunted out of rental homes.

Having mortgage free home allows them to focus on their passion and career more.

Constantly having to worry about rent/bills reduces their chances of excelling at the their chosen career path.

Money doesn't solve all problems, but lack of money creates some problems which are not easy to solve and removes peace of mind.

Yes I've seen a few who actually had this (parents brought them a home).   

My point being is,  if the equality becomes that divided I suspect they'll be other side effects though regardless of their position.

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