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Are We An Extreme Minority?


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10 minutes ago, byron78 said:

I actually think immigration would go up without the NHS. You'd have more competing healthcare providers, and given almost half of our medical staff are foreign born...

Do we have figures for the US medical services? I know a good number of Brit nurses/doctors went there to work in previous years, so suspect the figures for migrant workers are high.

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31 minutes ago, GregBowman said:

Theory not  practice....

https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/

I no speak English signor but my tummy hurts and thats only the EU

 

 

That'll be the EU sport. We get free healthcare there as well don't forget (well, did).

Health tourism is largely a tabloid myth (although I know many South Africans who came here at the end of apartheid for the health benefits).

Prices here if anyone is interested: 

https://improvement.nhs.uk/documents/1866/Overseas_Patient_Tariff_201920.xlsx

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Mumsnet has 10 million unique visitors per month clocking up around 100 million page views.
https://www.mumsnet.com/info/about-us

For HPC, Fubra claim only 1 million combined monthly visitors for all their websites
https://www.fubra.com/career/web-content-marketing-assistant/

If we optimistically claim half of those for the HPC forum that's still just 0.5% of the mumsnet traffic.

Now mumsnet cover a lot more than just housing costs, they have about 30 different forums on different topics only one of which covers the same ground (Home and Garden -  Property/DIY)

So if you divide 100 million by 30 = very roughly 3 million page views.

Equally HPC has a lot of content that's nothing to do with house prices, over the last year or two it has felt much more like a BREXIT forum than anything to do with house prices.

I feel like the opportunity for HPC to lead a change in opinion about housing costs has probably passed, after 17 years of being 'proven wrong' by mainstream opinion, any downturn now is going to be painted as - "COVID caused a once in a lifetime crash".

 
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41 minutes ago, Trampa501 said:

Do we have figures for the US medical services? I know a good number of Brit nurses/doctors went there to work in previous years, so suspect the figures for migrant workers are high.

I guess it would depend how many of their own they train. I'd agree with your logic, and guess that indigenous numbers are fairly low.

The US state isn't going to pay American kids to get a medical degree, and you'd guess the only ones who can then afford it were already from affluent families etc.

Which means foreign doctors and nurses filling the many many gaps, basically.

I have seen so many medical schools and training centres close this past 50 years it beggars belief. We won't be rebuilding that state infrastructure now it's gone of course. 

Edited by byron78
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Just now, byron78 said:

I guess it would depend how many of their own they train. I'd agree with your logic, and guess that's fairly low.

The US state isn't going to pay American kids to get a medical degree, and you'd guess the only ones who can then afford it were already from affluent families etc.

Which means foreign doctors and nurses basically.

I have seen so many medical schools and training centres close this past 50 years it beggars belief. We won't be rebuilding that state infrastructure now it's gone of course. 

But Bozo's promised Red Wall voters another 40 NHS hospitals!

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1 hour ago, byron78 said:

You have to pay now if you're not a British citizen you dolt.

Dolt, eh?  Brilliant.

And yet I'll wager you do actually know that the NHS is owed millions for unpaid visitor bills.  And if you are an immigrant, as opposed to a tourist, it is all free.  But if it weren't...?

Edited by Killer Bunny
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23 minutes ago, Killer Bunny said:

Dolt, eh?  Brilliant.

And yet I'll wager you do actually know that the NHS is owed millions for unpaid visitor bills.  And if you are an immigrant, as opposed to a tourist, it is all free.  But if it weren't...?

See link above (this one

https://improvement.nhs.uk/documents/1866/Overseas_Patient_Tariff_201920.xlsx )

 

Stop getting your news from liars and dinlos.

_20200627_183118.JPG

Edited by byron78
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5 hours ago, byron78 said:

That'll be the EU sport. We get free healthcare there as well don't forget (well, did).

Health tourism is largely a tabloid myth (although I know many South Africans who came here at the end of apartheid for the health benefits).

Prices here if anyone is interested: 

https://improvement.nhs.uk/documents/1866/Overseas_Patient_Tariff_201920.xlsx

To be fair from relatives who work in london hospitals the scam in so much as it exists is two forms. 

Firstly people who have emigrated abroad coming back for treatment. Why pay the excess fees in the states for cancer claims when you can fly back and get it for free? 

And secondly amougnst recent immigrants the family trick. One member might be eligible in the uk but anyone who needs treatment comes over and presents themselves for treatment as them - no ID checks etc. 

 

The whole flying over from Nigeria 8 months pregnant is a drop in the ocean but is the widely reported media example

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On 27/06/2020 at 15:42, nome said:

We are a tiny minority.

Even the vast majority of people who are priced out of buying are only interested in some form of 'help' to afford current prices and aren't even capable of contemplating the concept of prices actually falling.

This is true.

And there is a weird psychology here at work, a sort of Stockholm syndrome, whereby a lot of people who are priced out nevertheless state very sincerely that " the answer to the problem cannot be existing home owners taking a massive hit in the valuation of their house prices. I would never want existing housing investors to suffer financially ". 

The HPC opinion, which very realistically is that our society cannot financially rebalance and reach a state of basic fairness without some existing Housing investors being hurt very badly indeed, and many others taking a substantial hit, is an opinion that is supported by such a minority of the British/Australian/Canadian population that it might best be described as "fringe".

Like a belief that Elvis is alive or that alien lizards rule the world or suchlike. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 12:25 PM, Speed1987 said:

I was a socialist in my late teens and early 20s, then the world woke me up.

Same - I was a socialist until I started earning good money and understood what happens to tax.  

On 6/27/2020 at 12:34 PM, shlomo said:

Do we want an affordable home, or do we want a super bargain, sometimes the line is very blurred 

Agreed – there are many people who seem to have a hatred of others who have bought a house that has gone up in value whilst at the same time saying that they want to buy at the bottom of the market at a very cheap price and think that this makes them very clever.

On 6/27/2020 at 12:39 PM, Speed1987 said:

The shoe box comparison in London, is at the top of the bubble, out of reach for the majority. Similar to a Ferrari, there will always be a demand for them. Convenience & location underpins that's price.

There is no delusion here, you are failing to incorporate yourself within the game.

While some have rented on here years, others have paid down their mortgages.

Rent money is dead money right? So even if a house loses 50% value who lost?

For the majority of sensible buyers, they will win from buying a house.

Agreed anyone who bought a house on 2008 would now be about halfway through the mortgage term.  Irrespective of the value of said property they are halfway to owning their own home.  

On 6/27/2020 at 12:58 PM, scottbeard said:

The first mistake is to assume that all 6,000 HPCers have identical beliefs, and that the 150,000 mumsnetters also do.

The second mistake is to take it as a self-evident fact that you're right and 150,000 people are all wrong.

Agreed

On 6/27/2020 at 1:02 PM, xxxx said:

Rent is not dead money in a falling market.  When the SE house prices fall 50%, I will receive all my rent back, and more.

You will not get your money back it has gone into a LL pocket.  

On 6/27/2020 at 1:02 PM, xxxx said:

would much rather be a renter right now, than a oo who has brought in the last 10 years.  HPI in the last 10 years does not encompass sensible buyers.  A sensible buyer equals buying a house for value for money and reasonable house price/salary ratios.

What is reasonable price/salary is subjective opinion.

  A sensible buyer buys a house to be a home and a place of security and comfort for themselves and their family - not an investment. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 3:28 PM, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Yes, very much so. They also don't want to pay their fare share of anything. And expect special protection from COVID at great expense to the young.

I do not know 1 older person who has that attitude.  It is not older people who are out protesting in the middle of a pandemic they respected the lockdown.  It is not older people who were getting drink and fighting on beaches in Bournemouth.  

 

On 6/27/2020 at 3:28 PM, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I have little sympathy for those who are 52+ with type 2 diabetes and obesity - walking is cheap and effective.

There is an epidemic of obesity in young people as so many eat rubbish and do no sport and for them I have zero sympathy.  

 

On 6/27/2020 at 3:36 PM, winkie said:

luck of the draw, luck of life,

Totally

 

 

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13 minutes ago, richmondtw said:

Same - I was a socialist until I started earning good money and understood what happens to tax.  

Agreed – there are many people who seem to have a hatred of others who have bought a house that has gone up in value whilst at the same time saying that they want to buy at the bottom of the market at a very cheap price and think that this makes them very clever.

Agreed anyone who bought a house on 2008 would now be about halfway through the mortgage term.  Irrespective of the value of said property they are halfway to owning their own home.  

Agreed

You will not get your money back it has gone into a LL pocket.  

What is reasonable price/salary is subjective opinion.

  A sensible buyer buys a house to be a home and a place of security and comfort for themselves and their family - not an investment. 

??, trying to help you guys. As I am.

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18 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

And if you've made more money with the capital that you would otherwise have had tied up in a house than you've paid out in rent?

Not logic...

Mortgages -  50% cheaper than renting.

IO - often 70%+ cheaper.

Capital, would be increased greatly over renting, by either of these options.

Conditions to achieve wealth increases, more likely (earning 2k a month, £450 mortgage vs £850 rent, who is winning?).

Edited by Speed1987
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1 minute ago, Bruce Banner said:

And if you've made more money with the capital that you would otherwise have had tied up in a house than you've paid out in rent?

If you have good luck.  

Personally I am not obsessed with money.  My house is my home for me and my family not a financial investment.  Money in the bank has no emotional attachment, for me.  

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11 minutes ago, Speed1987 said:

Not logic...

Mortgages -  50% cheaper than renting.

IO - often 70%+ cheaper.

Capital, would be increased greatly over renting, by either of these options.

Conditions to achieve wealth increases, more likely (earning 2k a month, £450 mortgage vs £850 rent, who is winning?).

I was averaging twice as much interest on the money that I would have otherwise have had tied up in a house than I was paying out in rent in the period 2005 - 2012. FLS and TFS changed all that though.

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6 minutes ago, richmondtw said:

If you have good luck.  

Personally I am not obsessed with money.  My house is my home for me and my family not a financial investment.  Money in the bank has no emotional attachment, for me.  

A house is just a roof over your head. Sometimes it's better to own, other times it's better to rent. A house has no more emotional attachment to me than money in the bank.

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