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Check Your Privilege - parental-housing-ladder-help [PHLH]


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Hi

A superb article from Douglas Murray: https://unherd.com/2020/06/maybe-its-best-we-dont-check-our-privilege/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3 on a topic very relevant to HPC and UK housing in general... Check you PLHL..

" one group of people were fortunate above all others — those who, fresh out of university, were able to put down a deposit on a flat in London straight away, rather than spend years in rented accommodation, seeing most of their salaries disappear each month into someone else’s pocket. It was not only that this was a divide between renting and owning — having a stake in a property or paying for someone else’s stake in it — but that it had serious knock-on effects down the line. People who owned a place of their own in the capital had a wider and more appealing choice of jobs that they could go into — not because they were any more brilliant, had better CVs or any particular skin colour or hair colour. In contrast those forced to rent had to take whatever work was available in order to paddle fast enough not to sink in the big city and thus boomerang — fear of all fears — back to their parents’ home.  Many of the most desirable, hard-to-get-into, careers went to this former group of people. To take just the most high-profile example, many if not most of the people in my generation who made a stab at acting — whether successful or not — were able to make that attempt because their parents had helped to buy them a property, house them in the capital, or otherwise keep them financially afloat.

[...]

One thing that is so striking about the ‘privilege’ discussion of recent years is the way in which it has come to be interested only in a very specific set of issues. It is utterly obsessed with what it deems ‘racial privilege’, insofar as it is obsessed with ‘white privilege’. As a secondary order of duty it is interested in the privilege alleged to be withheld from people who are not male or heterosexual. Yet in my own ‘lived experience’ (to steal that typically grandiose and tautologous phrase of the social justice warriors) parental-housing-ladder-help [PHLH] privilege seems to me the most significant privilege variant among my contemporaries.

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33 minutes ago, dryrot said:

Hi

A superb article from Douglas Murray: https://unherd.com/2020/06/maybe-its-best-we-dont-check-our-privilege/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3 on a topic very relevant to HPC and UK housing in general... Check you PLHL..

" one group of people were fortunate above all others — those who, fresh out of university, were able to put down a deposit on a flat in London straight away, rather than spend years in rented accommodation, seeing most of their salaries disappear each month into someone else’s pocket. It was not only that this was a divide between renting and owning — having a stake in a property or paying for someone else’s stake in it — but that it had serious knock-on effects down the line. People who owned a place of their own in the capital had a wider and more appealing choice of jobs that they could go into — not because they were any more brilliant, had better CVs or any particular skin colour or hair colour. In contrast those forced to rent had to take whatever work was available in order to paddle fast enough not to sink in the big city and thus boomerang — fear of all fears — back to their parents’ home.  Many of the most desirable, hard-to-get-into, careers went to this former group of people. To take just the most high-profile example, many if not most of the people in my generation who made a stab at acting — whether successful or not — were able to make that attempt because their parents had helped to buy them a property, house them in the capital, or otherwise keep them financially afloat.

[...]

One thing that is so striking about the ‘privilege’ discussion of recent years is the way in which it has come to be interested only in a very specific set of issues. It is utterly obsessed with what it deems ‘racial privilege’, insofar as it is obsessed with ‘white privilege’. As a secondary order of duty it is interested in the privilege alleged to be withheld from people who are not male or heterosexual. Yet in my own ‘lived experience’ (to steal that typically grandiose and tautologous phrase of the social justice warriors) parental-housing-ladder-help [PHLH] privilege seems to me the most significant privilege variant among my contemporaries.

No one helped me on to the housing ladder, so why are you looking to your parents for a bail out? Better to stand on ones own feet and be proud of your own achievements.

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You'll be quoting Martin Luther King soon - judge people not by the colour of their skin but but the content of their character - or would that now be 'by the content of their parent's bank balance'.

Of course it suits big corporates and the 0.01% to have the poor divided - means that can increase their wealth and power with little challenge as the people who might collectively challenge it if they came together are divided up into competing interest groups and are then told the biggest threat to them, their family and security and their place in society are police officers earning £25,000 a year rather than said corporates and the global 0.01%!

A bit like people who take £40 million a year perhaps from a company that got rich using slave labour during world war II (a mere 75 years ago) - tens of thousands of whom died or were killed after they had served their purpose - and then campaigning to take down statues of people who profited from slavery? 

Edited by MARTINX9
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23 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

A bit like people who take £40 million a year perhaps from a company that got rich using slave labour during world war II (a mere 75 years ago) - tens of thousands of whom died or were killed after they had served their purpose - and then campaigning to take down statues of people who profited from slavery? 

The Germans did a bit wrt reparations for WWII. Friedrich Flick died a billionaire, tho - but who is to say there is justice in this world?

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4 minutes ago, dryrot said:

The Germans did a bit wrt reparations for WWII. Friedrich Flick died a billionaire, tho - but who is to say there is justice in this world?

The Poles apparently think they are still owed 850 billion dollars in reparations for WWII by Germany. Well their capital city was raised to the ground and 6 million people or nearly 20% of their pre war population were killed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-germany-reparations/germany-owes-poland-over-850-billion-in-ww2-reparations-senior-lawmaker-idUSKCN1S215R

I expect the Irish are due some reparations too given 800 years of British rule there including the descendants of up to 1.5 million people who died needlessly in the potato famine while Ireland collectively net exported food to the rest of the Empire - forty years after the UK abolished slavery. Not that poor English working class folks at the time had anything to do with that as most of them were living in the gutter too. A famine with millions dying is one thing if there really is no food locally - but when your country actually has a food surplus its quite another thing altogether!

This reparations stuff can get very expensive and problematic if you go back far enough right across the world. Slavery can be traced back to two thousand years ago and more and the last country to legally abolish it and make it a crime only did so in 2007.

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56 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

The Poles apparently think they are still owed 850 billion dollars in reparations for WWII by Germany. Well their capital city was raised to the ground and 6 million people or nearly 20% of their pre war population were killed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-germany-reparations/germany-owes-poland-over-850-billion-in-ww2-reparations-senior-lawmaker-idUSKCN1S215R

I expect the Irish are due some reparations too given 800 years of British rule there including the descendants of up to 1.5 million people who died needlessly in the potato famine while Ireland collectively net exported food to the rest of the Empire - forty years after the UK abolished slavery. Not that poor English working class folks at the time had anything to do with that as most of them were living in the gutter too. A famine with millions dying is one thing if there really is no food locally - but when your country actually has a food surplus its quite another thing altogether!

This reparations stuff can get very expensive and problematic if you go back far enough right across the world. Slavery can be traced back to two thousand years ago and more and the last country to legally abolish it and make it a crime only did so in 2007.

Poland was looted. Of course they are due billions beyond just Warsaw being raized to the ground. 

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18 hours ago, dryrot said:

A superb article from Douglas Murray:

"one group of people were fortunate above all others — those who, fresh out of university, were able to put down a deposit on a flat in London straight away...  People who owned a place of their own in the capital had a wider and more appealing choice of jobs...  In contrast those forced to rent had to take whatever work was available in order to paddle fast enough not to sink in the big city and thus boomerang — fear of all fears — back to their parents’ home.  Many of the most desirable, hard-to-get-into, careers went to this former group of people. To take just the most high-profile example, many if not most of the people in my generation who made a stab at acting — whether successful or not — were able to make that attempt because their parents had helped to buy them a property, house them in the capital, or otherwise keep them financially afloat.

[...]

One thing that is so striking about the ‘privilege’ discussion of recent years is the way in which it has come to be interested only in a very specific set of issues... in my own ‘lived experience’ (to steal that typically grandiose and tautologous phrase of the social justice warriors) parental-housing-ladder-help [PHLH] privilege seems to me the most significant privilege variant among my contemporaries.

I think he is mistaken in his view that the 'privilege' discussion is interested only a specific set of issues. There is a great degree of overlap between various types and sources of privilege, and this is recognised by people who argue they should be rectified. For example, perhaps the most important and topical one in the USA is the economic disparity between whites and blacks. Median white household wealth is about $170,000 and median black household wealth is about $15,000. This is largely due to the fact that whites have been passing wealth down for generations, whilst blacks started with nothing when they were freed and still faced many obstacles to wealth generations for decades. This is why some people argue for affirmative action and reparations.

Similarly in the British case, who are the people who received help on to the property ladder? The white-black wealth disparity is much smaller than in the USA, but it's significant, so the PHLH privilege goes much more to whites than blacks. 

 

What is Murray actually arguing?

Is it a humblebrag? If he didn't have PHLH, is he claiming he is better than those who did? Moreover that he is or could have been a much more talented actor than most actors in his generation!

Is it misdirection? PHLH is more important than an elite or free education (Murray attended Eton, then Oxford University before tuition fees).

Is he lampooning people who complain they didn't receive PHLH? He argues (correctly, in my view) that lived experience doesn't give people authority, but proceeds to make a case  based on it. People who were "forced" to rent were unfortunate because they feared having to go back to live with their parents. But people whose parents could "house them in the capital" were lucky, despite already suffering the "fear of all fears" of living with their parents. He doesn't explain how owning a flat helps to have more job opportunities. Conventional wisdom says that it's harder, because it's harder to move to a different area. In any case, he doesn't say how people who are struggling to pay a mortgage and may have worries about negative equity will be - or feel - more free to do things like have a stab at acting. Again, conventional wisdom says that people tend to become more risk averse once they become home owners. If you rent, you can more easily move back home, so it's easier for you to take risks.

He may be having a sly dig at "grandiose social justice warriors" who were "forced to rent in London" scared of living with their parents, who blame their failures on the lack of PHLH.

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17 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Poland was looted. Of course they are due billions beyond just Warsaw being raized to the ground. 

So was Lithuania twice but they were wearing the wrong jersey where does it stop ?

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20 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

The Poles apparently think they are still owed 850 billion dollars in reparations for WWII by Germany. Well their capital city was raised to the ground and 6 million people or nearly 20% of their pre war population were killed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-germany-reparations/germany-owes-poland-over-850-billion-in-ww2-reparations-senior-lawmaker-idUSKCN1S215R

I expect the Irish are due some reparations too given 800 years of British rule there including the descendants of up to 1.5 million people who died needlessly in the potato famine while Ireland collectively net exported food to the rest of the Empire - forty years after the UK abolished slavery. Not that poor English working class folks at the time had anything to do with that as most of them were living in the gutter too. A famine with millions dying is one thing if there really is no food locally - but when your country actually has a food surplus its quite another thing altogether!

This reparations stuff can get very expensive and problematic if you go back far enough right across the world. Slavery can be traced back to two thousand years ago and more and the last country to legally abolish it and make it a crime only did so in 2007.

Don't forget the Highland clearances.... Kerching

Edit - Actually there's probably an argument that American independance deprived the UK of a significant income flow and that's the current American state owes reparations to the common or garden British citizen equivalent to the difference in living standard between the two countries. 

Edited by regprentice
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2 hours ago, Kosmin said:

Median white household wealth is about $170,000 and median black household wealth is about $15,000. This is largely due to the fact that whites have been passing wealth down for generations, whilst blacks started with nothing when they were freed and still faced many obstacles to wealth generations for decades. This is why some people argue for affirmative action and reparations.

 

Median household income figures are of course much closer - you can control current income but historic accumulation of wealth (and we assume that differential is mostly down to home ownership levels) is harder without penal inheritances taxes

White non hispanic Americans 67000 USD

African Americans 31,000  USD

but 

Americans of Indian origin 131,000 USD

Americans of East Asian origin 85,000 USD.

You would get similar differential figures here I expect comparing the wealth of 25 year olds to 65 year olds and also by demographic and social class.

According to one 2016 survey for example up to 40% of UK adults have less than £100 in savings rising to over 50% in Wales, NI and the much of the north - and assuming many of them rent the essential wealth of millions of Brits is nil or arguably negative when you factor in their credit card debts and loans! 

Edited by MARTINX9
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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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