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Will the rioting in the US have a long term effect on the economy?


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Some of the scenes of rioting from the US, while isolated, probably make people question if they want to be going to the theatre or a downtown bar.

 

Especially after the Corona virus, I can see people wanting to go ever more virtual, hunkering down at home with a video game and pizza.  Instead of splashing the cash in a downtown location.

 

Putting Corona aside, do you think this rioting alone could have an effect on the economy in the US(and therefore the rest of the world)?

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I live about 45 miles from Detroit which has seen some trouble although was far from being the worst affected by rioting. That said I rarely venture down there anyway since I have no need to be there. Regarding the wider economy itself I sense that we were never locked down to anything like to the degree that the UK was - all restaurants with drive-thru's have been open for the whole time, car dealerships, many shops. Malls are now opening and I understand restaurants will allow dining indoors from next week subject to social distancing. The car factories (which are major employers around here) went back two weeks ago. When I go to the supermarket everyone is wearing a mask.

Local business are complaining that they cant get staff, partly due to the fact that laid-off people can claim about $900 per week in total currently, although I believe that will stop soon. Difficult to say at this stage how things will pan out although all my neighbours have retained their jobs (so far) and don't appear to have reigned in their spending from what I can see.

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59 minutes ago, reddog said:

Some of the scenes of rioting from the US, while isolated, probably make people question if they want to be going to the theatre or a downtown bar.

 

Especially after the Corona virus, I can see people wanting to go ever more virtual, hunkering down at home with a video game and pizza.  Instead of splashing the cash in a downtown location.

 

Putting Corona aside, do you think this rioting alone could have an effect on the economy in the US(and therefore the rest of the world)?

 

I think they'll put a tremendous amount of strain on the smaller, local businesses affected - probably a lot that were already teetering on the edge because of the coronavirus lockdowns will be done for sure now.  So local economies (and communities) will suffer.

It's also going to affect people's view of the desirability of living in a big city - particularly the big ones run by Democrats - pretty negatively.  I think that many who can move out of those places will now choose to do so.  Of course, that will leave a rump of poorer people without the option to move in an even worse position, especially as the taxes paid by the former inhabitants are lost to the city.

 

Well done 'protestors'.  You've royally screwed your own areas.  Still, it'll give you even more stuff to be unhappy about in the future so there's that.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Clint Justice said:

I live about 45 miles from Detroit which has seen some trouble although was far from being the worst affected by rioting. That said I rarely venture down there anyway since I have no need to be there. Regarding the wider economy itself I sense that we were never locked down to anything like to the degree that the UK was - all restaurants with drive-thru's have been open for the whole time, car dealerships, many shops. Malls are now opening and I understand restaurants will allow dining indoors from next week subject to social distancing. The car factories (which are major employers around here) went back two weeks ago. When I go to the supermarket everyone is wearing a mask.

Local business are complaining that they cant get staff, partly due to the fact that laid-off people can claim about $900 per week in total currently, although I believe that will stop soon. Difficult to say at this stage how things will pan out although all my neighbours have retained their jobs (so far) and don't appear to have reigned in their spending from what I can see.

I visited Detroit in 2013, it was interesting to go to probably the only downtown in North America without a mcdonalds or burger king.  I guess rioting may have a similar effect with big name chains pulling out of once popular locations.  It might be a bit different now, I took a tour and people seemed to think the city was on the up, due to Dan Gilbert putting all that money in.  The city certainly has some amazing architecture.

 

I have heard the unemployed are currently being paid more than the employed, but wasnt sure if that was true, so thanks for confirming.

 

I also heard Detroit might have problems because it gets a lot of money from Casinos, which are currently down.

 

Interestingly despite Detroits rep, at least the downtown area feels a lot safe than Chicago.

Edited by reddog
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I suspect it will have a long term effect on both the US and UK economies. It will almost certainly decide the outcome of the forthcoming US election.

The anger is understandable and the initial act that provoked it I found horrifying.

However, if there is one thing that gets people worried it is that a rampaging mob will come and burn down their business, their car, their home or hurt their family.

My guess is that this violence will lead to a lot of middle class Americans asking the question who is more likely to protect them against the mob, Biden or Trump.

Far from ousting Trump from office, it could cement his second term.

Peaceful protest is the solution here.

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4 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Far from ousting Trump from office, it could cement his second term.

Could do, however the actual damage is trivial.

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2 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Could do, however the actual damage is trivial.

It's not really the actual damage that counts. It's peoples perception of what is going on.

The worst thing is that if Trump really does get a second term, I think the chance that this may escalate, or some other crisis might tip the US into chaos increases dramatically. Trump is hardly a steady hand on the tiller. And if the US goes into meltdown the rest of the world will follow it.

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1 minute ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

It's not really the actual damage that counts. It's peoples perception of what is going on.

Not sure if it matters that much if you have to drive an hour to go out and the country is dangerous is parts already, They will be used to it, just buy more guns. 

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59 minutes ago, reddog said:

I visited Detroit in 2013, it was interesting to go to probably the only downtown in North America without a mcdonalds or burger king.  I guess rioting may have a similar effect with big name chains pulling out of once popular locations.  It might be a bit different now, I took a tour and people seemed to think the city was on the up, due to Dan Gilbert putting all that money in.  The city certainly has some amazing architecture.

 

I have heard the unemployed are currently being paid more than the employed, but wasnt sure if that was true, so thanks for confirming.

 

I also heard Detroit might have problems because it gets a lot of money from Casinos, which are currently down.

 

Interestingly despite Detroits rep, at least the downtown area feels a lot safe than Chicago.

Ay caramba. Hard to imagine how bad Chicago must be if Detroit feels safe by comparison!

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Ay caramba. Hard to imagine how bad Chicago must be if Detroit feels safe by comparison!

I would put it down to Chicago being busier generally, so I saw a lot more people completely zombified by drugs walking down the "miracle mile".

 

It would actually be interesting to do a thread on Chicago/Illinois that state has a lot of people leaving it due to crime and high taxes, which means the state may eventually go bust.

Edited by reddog
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7 minutes ago, reddog said:

I would put it down to Chicago being busier generally, so I saw a lot more people completely zombified by drugs walking down the "miracle mile".

 

It would actually be interesting to do a thread on Chicago/Illinois that state has a lot of people leaving it due to crime and high taxes, which means the state may eventually go bust.

I recall a friend of mine being sent on some auto industry junket to Detroit a few years ago. He was somewhat alarmed when hotel reception instructed him to only walk left when leaving the building i.e. downtown and never right i.e. the 'burbs.

Edited by zugzwang
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5 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

I recall a friend of mine being sent on some auto industry junket to Detroit a few years ago. He was somewhat alarmed when hotel reception instructed him to only walk left when leaving the building i.e. downtown and never right i.e. the 'burbs.

Not unusual in major US cities, i had that advice in San Francisco, colleague who decided to walk back at night got mugged in Union Square (mind you i wouldn't have walked it). Last time i was there was in Portland nice city but staggering levels of homelessness.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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6 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Not unusual in major US cities, i had that advice in San Francisco, colleague who decided to walk back at night got mugged in Union Square (mind you i wouldn't have walked it). Last time i was there was in Portland nice city but staggering levels of homelessness.

Was it winter? the homeless tend to "commute" from -20 places like Chicago, New York etc to the west coast for winter.. makes the homeless issue in those cities pretty astonishing in winter

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3 minutes ago, captainb said:

Was it winter? the homeless tend to "commute" from -20 places like Chicago, New York etc to the west coast for winter.. makes the homeless issue in those cities pretty astonishing in winter

San Francisco was January, i am told it has a huge pull for homeless, anecdotally nearby cities buy bus tickets to SF for their vagrants.  Portland  was in september, thing about portland is where else in Oregon are you going to beg?

Edited by debtlessmanc
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36 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Not unusual in major US cities, i had that advice in San Francisco, colleague who decided to walk back at night got mugged in Union Square (mind you i wouldn't have walked it). Last time i was there was in Portland nice city but staggering levels of homelessness.

As you say much the same everywhere. In Miami you can move from plush expensive real estate owned by the uberwealthy in Brickell - the so called Wall St of Miami - to dangerous high crime areas like Overtown within the space of a couple of stops on the Metrorail. Got David Beckham in the news a couple of years ago!

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/daily-star-sun-call-overtown-a-hellhole-crime-riddled-ghetto-10050974

To be honest it won't affect the vast majority of Americans who don't live in inner city areas with Democrat run Mayors and Democrat appointed police chiefs. Its the homes lived in, shops used by, drug stores visited by and cafes ate in by poor black people in deprived areas that have been the ones burned down and destroyed. They will be the people who suffer most - people like the elderly disabled woman in this story who now has no local food store or drug store to get her medicine..

https://kstp.com/minnesota-news/minneapolis-twin-cities-community-reaction-riots/5745543/

What perhaps I do find very odd is what training these Minneapolis officers actually got in restraining people under arrest and what equipment they get to do so?. What would have been wrong with using a taser as we do in the UK? Surely there has to be more on offer than a knee on a person's throat? If this happened in London people would be saying to Cressida Dick or the Mayor why did you not train your officers better in restraint?

And why is there no comeback on the local police chief or the local white oh so liberal Democrat Mayor who are responsible for the police, their budget and training? Aren't they perhaps responsible for the performance by their officers and their lack of training in how to restrain people under arrest. Not only did they fail initially - they also failed in allowing justified protests turn into mob rule, looting and the wanton destruction of people's homes and busineses.

Or am I just overthinking things!

Edited by MARTINX9
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13 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

As you say much the same everywhere. In Miami you can move from plush expensive real estate owned by the uberwealthy in Brickell - to so called Wall St of Miami - to dangerous high crime areas like Overtown within the space of a couple of stops on the Metrorail. Got David Beckham in the news a couple of years ago!

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/daily-star-sun-call-overtown-a-hellhole-crime-riddled-ghetto-10050974

To be honest it won't affect the vast majority of Americans who don't live in inner city areas with Democrat run Mayors and Democrat appointed police chiefs. Its the homes lived in, shops used by, drug stores visited by and cafes ate in by poor black people in deprived areas that have been the ones burned down and destroyed. They will be the people who suffer most - people like the elderly disabled woman in this story who now has no local food store or drug store to get her medicine..

https://kstp.com/minnesota-news/minneapolis-twin-cities-community-reaction-riots/5745543/

What perhaps I do find very odd is what training these Minneapolis officers actually got in restraining people under arrest and what equipment they get to do so?. What would have been wrong with using a taser as we do in the UK? Surely there has to be more on offer than a knee on a person's throat? If this happened in London people would be saying to Cressida Dick or the Mayor why did you not train your officers better in restraint?

And why is there no comeback on the local police chief or the local white oh so liberal Democrat Mayor who are responsible for the police, their budget and training? Aren't they perhaps responsible for the performance by their officers and their lack of training in how to restrain people under arrest. Not only did they fail initially - they also failed in allowing justified protests turn into mob rule, looting and the wanton destruction of people's homes and busineses.

Or am I just overthinking things!

Its a dump like London, been there . Why are all immigrants trying to get to blighty? We are soft.

They can hide in London.

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5 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

It's not really the actual damage that counts. It's peoples perception of what is going on.

The worst thing is that if Trump really does get a second term, I think the chance that this may escalate, or some other crisis might tip the US into chaos increases dramatically. Trump is hardly a steady hand on the tiller. And if the US goes into meltdown the rest of the world will follow it.

If Trump does not get in then it makes a UK trade deal with the US less likely, so the UK suffers more. Either way you are looking at it its not looking good for UK plc post C19

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The rioting will have no lasting impact on the US economy. 
The FED however ensures long term protests and higher inflation, interest rates and Depression.

... which leads to long term protests...

Edited by Killer Bunny
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13 hours ago, faloos said:

Its a dump like London, been there . Why are all immigrants trying to get to blighty? We are soft.

They can hide in London.

People come to London because the pavements are paved with gold, well comparatively speaking 

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1 hour ago, Killer Bunny said:

The rioting will have no lasting impact on the US economy. 
The FED however ensures long term protests and higher inflation, interest rates and Depression.

... which leads to long term protests...

Which is why you need a truly vicious criminal justice system. these thing  are all interrelated in the states.

The only way you can maintain the kind of wealth inequalities and lack of basic human needs eg medical care is to make the consquences of crime horrific. One of the most terrifying aspects is the 99% conviction rate, basically if the cops charge you with something you are going down and US prisons are horrific.

I lived in California 13-11 years ago, beautiful place but the casual regard for homelessness and poverty, as well as the crazy work culture is inexplicable without understanding the brutality of the criminal justice system

Interestingly i found many older americans disgusted by it too, suggests it has all got a lot worse.

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Hence we need capitalism.  Blindingly obvious when you think of it.  When you understand what capitalism is Vs socialism and cronyism.

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  • 418 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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