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UK offer of citizenship to Hong Kong BNO as a way to prop up London real estate sales?


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10 minutes ago, hayder said:

large number of real-estate obsessed and moneyed HK Chinese

Any monied Hong Kongers have long since purchased their London bolthole. 

What will be more interesting is how China responds to this insult. What the article calls 'counter-measures'. What could these be?

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1 minute ago, sammersmith said:

Any monied Hong Kongers have long since purchased their London bolthole. 

What will be more interesting is how China responds to this insult. What the article calls 'counter-measures'. What could these be?

interesting thought. Could there be an exodus of Mainland Chinese alligned real estate investments? 

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3 minutes ago, sammersmith said:

What will be more interesting is how China responds to this insult. What the article calls 'counter-measures'. What could these be?

Does make you think

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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/28/asia/china-wolf-warrior-diplomacy-intl-hnk/index.html

Speaking at a press conference in Beijing Sunday, Foreign Minister Wang Yi said that China would now push back against "deliberate insults."
"We never pick a fight or bully others. But we have principles and guts. We will push back against any deliberate insult, resolutely defend our national honor and dignity, and we will refute all groundless slander with facts," said Wang, responding to a question from CNN. 
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22 minutes ago, hayder said:

interesting thought. Could there be an exodus of Mainland Chinese alligned real estate investments? 

Maybe prevent future investment by state owned enterprises and discourage private investment by individuals in property and education by painting the UK as a hostile environment for Chinese citizens.

Something along these lines would be my guess, but this might extend to the exodus of existing investments you suggested as a consequence.  

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14 hours ago, sammersmith said:

Maybe prevent future investment by state owned enterprises and discourage private investment by individuals in property and education by painting the UK as a hostile environment for Chinese citizens.

Something along these lines would be my guess, but this might extend to the exodus of existing investments you suggested as a consequence.  

Could well be.

Issue with that is it would then leave China with a Escobar type issue... loads of cash but no place to spend it legally.

Chinas power is also its weakness cheap goods, debt purchase (to enable purchase of said goods and investment/education/consumption.

Pull the trigger on that and make the addicts go cold turkey and they can find alternatives, default and your power is gone without superior military to go in and foreclose.

Another 5-10 years and maybe the job of filleting out the west could have gone to far but this is a bit early so i can only assume they have problems internally.

 

Edited by Fromage Frais
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Great.  We leave the EU with no plan because immigration was hitting 200K. 

Now we want to drag in 3 MILLION (and dependents).  Don't tell me they are all 'wealth creators', that many would have plenty of influence even in communist China.

Edited by msi
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The government is not rabidly xenophobic and starting from that expectation is plan silly.

We did not leave the EU because only because of immigration, and even where immigration was a concern it was unlimited unskilled immigration - both leave campaigns said that they were happy to have more skilled non-EU immigration.

There are currently only 300k people who have BNO passports. a total of 2.9m people qualify, but 2.6m of them have to applied for a BNO passport.

They are being offered an extension of the the time they can stay in the UK to one year instead of six months, and a potential further extension of they have enough money, and if they keep extending it until they have lived here five years then they can apply for citizen ship.

Only a small proportion of people will want to apply. Most people are very reluctant to leave their home. Moving countries is difficult, expensive and risky. Not if you are going somewhere to work for a few years, but a permanent move is tough. While immigration numbers can look big in absolute terms, as a proportion of the populations people leave it is tiny, and the affluent are far more likely to emigrate than others.

 

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15 minutes ago, gp_ said:

We did not leave the EU because only because of immigration
 

Yes it was the erudite and nuanced discussions about EU policy,  member accountability, and federal direction that informed Brexit. Nothing to do with the scaremongering of Turkey joining (an impossibility) and migration to the UK -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-immigrant-influx-michael-gove-nhs-unsustainable

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/nigel-farage-says-controversial-anti-migrant-poster-won-referendum-brexit-556699

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48244663/nigel-farage-breaking-point-poster-transformed-politics

 

All that was touted were headline figures. Thank you for giving extra detail to those and adding to the discussion. Shame so many voices were so quiet during the referendum.  Individuals are immensely welcoming to, but the UK knee jerk reaction IS xenophobic - amplified  by significant parts of the media as it diverts attention from the real parasites in the UK

 

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18 minutes ago, msi said:

  Individuals are immensely welcoming to, but the UK knee jerk reaction IS xenophobic

The UK is one of the least racist countries in the world. Confirmed by numerous studies, and, as an immigrant and visibly ethnic minority, its my experience too.

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37 minutes ago, gp_ said:

The UK is one of the least racist countries in the world. Confirmed by numerous studies, and, as an immigrant and visibly ethnic minority, its my experience too.

Ok, now that we've moved on from your incorrect assertion that Immigration wasn't the main factor for Brexit, feel free to join me walking through Oldham and Rotherham  or perhaps Eltham, Notting Hill.  Don't forget to bring a hoodie so you can be 'randomly' selected.

I never said the UK was racist, but Xenophobic.  The fear of 'other' is strong.  Perhaps you can read the following:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27599401

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1369183X.2018.1451308

 

 

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25 minutes ago, msi said:

Ok, now that we've moved on from your incorrect assertion that Immigration wasn't the main factor for Brexit, feel free to join me walking through Oldham and Rotherham  or perhaps Eltham, Notting Hill.  Don't forget to bring a hoodie so you can be 'randomly' selected.

I never said the UK was racist, but Xenophobic.  The fear of 'other' is strong.  Perhaps you can read the following:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27599401

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1369183X.2018.1451308

 

 

To be fair there aren't many countries outside western Europe and the Anglosphere that would have allowed the level of immigration from all parts of the globe the UK has in recent decades including the people whose ancestors were here in the 1940s becoming a minority in their capital city without there being significant civil unrest perhaps even a civil war.  So the view of Brits being somehow especially xenophobic or intolerant is ridiculous of course.  Out tolerant live as you wish do what you want society is what of course attracts people - and why they came.

Look at the reaction of many eastern European nations to such possibilities - albeit perhaps their views get a bit clouded by history of the Ottoman Empire which governed some or all of their territories or bordered them for nearly a thousand years until the early 20th century. The Armenian people can testify to that - which did ultimately give the US the Kardashians.

The point was of course who should decide your immigration policy - the EU or the UK parliament who you can vote out every five years - and particularly to be apply criteria to decide your immigration linked to skills shortages or economic needs or humanitarian grounds treating people of all other nations (bar Ireland) the same not a free for all with 27 countries many of whom have mass youth unemployment.

You know the sort of 'racist' immigration policies those liberal icons Justin Trudeau and Jacinda Ardern apply in Canada and New Zealand!

 

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The main problem with immigration isn't racism or xenophobia but simply the sheer volume of people involved. With enough to fill a decent sized city every year and all the negative impacts on quality of life a higher population produces its no wonder it's become so unpopular. Just think what house prices, traffic levels etc. would be like with a steady, or better still declining at a manageable rate population!

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3 hours ago, Riedquat said:

The main problem with immigration isn't racism or xenophobia but simply the sheer volume of people involved. With enough to fill a decent sized city every year and all the negative impacts on quality of life a higher population produces its no wonder it's become so unpopular. Just think what house prices, traffic levels etc. would be like with a steady, or better still declining at a manageable rate population!

3 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

To be fair there aren't many countries outside western Europe and the Anglosphere that would have allowed the level of immigration from all parts of the globe the UK has in recent decades including the people whose ancestors were here in the 1940s becoming a minority in their capital city without there being significant civil unrest perhaps even a civil war.  So the view of Brits being somehow especially xenophobic or intolerant is ridiculous of course.  Out tolerant live as you wish do what you want society is what of course attracts people - and why they came.

 

Ah, Schrodingers Xenophobe.  We are so welcoming , but we still think you mess our country up.

 

 

 

 

Edited by msi
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Just now, msi said:

Ah, Schrodingers Xenophobe.  We are so welcoming , but we still think you mess our country up.

You're giving the impression of being another person who takes a very simple black and white view of things - if it doesn't fit 100% in your "not xenophobic" pigeonhole (defined in a very extreme way to exclude anyone who could even entertain the idea of there being downsides to immigration) it must belong in the other one.

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

You're giving the impression of being another person who takes a very simple black and white view of things - if it doesn't fit 100% in your "not xenophobic" pigeonhole (defined in a very extreme way to exclude anyone who could even entertain the idea of there being downsides to immigration) it must belong in the other one.

My so-called 'Black/White' (ironic given the bias of most Xenophobes in the UK) stance comes from either having a rational discussion with valid points and without sound bites or highlighting the twisted logic of people that can't be bothered to realise the absurdity of letting the elites plant the idea of how 'others' ruin their country, but are then led by the same elites to welcome 'others' to exploit their country as 'wealth creators'.  I've had enough discussions about immigration here, so won't waste my breath further.

Relating this back to HPC, I can't see this supporting house prices.  Rather the opposite when China retaliates by applying harsher capital controls.

Edited by msi
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39 minutes ago, msi said:

My so-called 'Black/White' (ironic given the bias of most Xenophobes in the UK) stance comes from either having a rational discussion with valid points and without sound bites or highlighting the twisted logic of people that can't be bothered to realise the absurdity of letting the elites plant the idea of how 'others' ruin their country, but are then led by the same elites to welcome 'others' to exploit their country as 'wealth creators'.  I've had enough discussions about immigration here, so won't waste my breath further.

Bias of most xenophobes? Maybe, but there are far, far fewer than I suspect you think they are.

What's your basis for the assumption that they're fine with the "elites"? It's not a two sides, one are goodies, one are baddies issue. That's more oversimplification.

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2 hours ago, msi said:

Ah, Schrodingers Xenophobe.  We are so welcoming , but we still think you mess our country up.

 

 

 

 

If it is so awful here its amazing so many people risk their lives every day to come here or struggle for years to be allowed to settle here permanently.

Maybe the people who obviously seem to hate this country and much of its people could choose to leave for their beloved EU (after all you still have FOM for at least 7 months) - leaving more room and freeing up more housing for those including them who do actually want to live here and don't seem to hate this country?

Edited by MARTINX9
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Boris is saying it will definitely give the 3M the right to work in the U.K. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/britain-could-change-immigration-rules-for-hong-kong-citizens
 

this could actually Work out well for the U.K., after all saying 3M Hong Kong residents can move to the U.K. if they find a job is chicken feed to saying the same for 400M EU citizens and some might be minted as has been pointed out here.

as to xenophobia, even the commentators on the daily wail think it is a good idea. The chattering classes only really objected to migrants who despise their host's culture, not really surprising is it ? i have lived here all my 50 odd years and never once heard anyone saying anything negative about people  of Chinese ethnicity.
 

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On 01/06/2020 at 13:57, Riedquat said:

The main problem with immigration isn't racism or xenophobia but simply the sheer volume of people involved. With enough to fill a decent sized city every year and all the negative impacts on quality of life a higher population produces its no wonder it's become so unpopular. Just think what house prices, traffic levels etc. would be like with a steady, or better still declining at a manageable rate population!

+1  I would say the same as if the population were increasing because lots of people wanted to have lots of babies.

20 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

 

as to xenophobia, even the commentators on the daily wail think it is a good idea. The chattering classes only really objected to migrants who despise their host's culture, not really surprising is it ? i have lived here all my 50 odd years and never once heard anyone saying anything negative about people  of Chinese ethnicity.
 

Probably because no one has even been mugged by a Chinese man, nor have they heard of a Chinese grooming gang nor suicide bomber.

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Another madness made by stupid goverment. Hong Kong is a part of China since it was returned to China in 1997. It is no longer UK's worry what will happen there. It doesn't make any sense to give BNO passports to HK people now. Why they want to give 3 million Chinese right to live or work in UK? It undermines the whole point of leaving EU to control immigration.

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On 01/06/2020 at 13:05, msi said:

never said the UK was racist, but Xenophobic.  The fear of 'other' is strong.  Perhaps you can read the following:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27599401

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1369183X.2018.1451308

The first users a highly subjective measure, and as Sundar Katawala commented in the article people hold themselves to the higher bar.

The second is just a few cherry picked stories, not systematic attempt to add up numbers. It just shows what junk can be published in some fields.

 

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On 01/06/2020 at 13:57, Riedquat said:

The main problem with immigration isn't racism or xenophobia but simply the sheer volume of people involved. With enough to fill a decent sized city every year and all the negative impacts on quality of life a higher population produces its no wonder it's become so unpopular. Just think what house prices, traffic levels etc. would be like with a steady, or better still declining at a manageable rate population!

All those NHS workers (many from migrant backgrounds) who gave their life during the recent pandemic, are worth thousands of the xenophobes led by Farage and his ilk, who genuinely are the real destroyers of our way of life.

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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

Probably because no one has even been mugged by a Chinese man, nor have they heard of a Chinese grooming gang nor suicide bomber.

Interestingly  the younger online generation do have a negative stereotype of the Chinese.

There are thousands of Chinese cctv videoclips online which create the impression of the Chinese public as a whole as being viciously callous. A car /bus/van/forklift truck driver drivers who run runs over a toddler, then reverses over them again as they turn their car, rush hour traffic ignoring people run over in the street, rush hour pedestrians crossing the road ignoring a woman just knocked down in front of them. 

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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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