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Living in a country and working for a company in another?


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Just had a zoom meeting with folks in my company. Office to open again maybe after summer, but even then, company will adopt hot desking, meaning if you want to work from home you can basically do it. 
 

Wondering if at this point any law will not allow me to move e.g.: sunny Spain and rent a seaside house for like 500 euro per month? What’s the point paying >£1000 in London if I can rent for half that figure somewhere else, maybe not too far from large cities, where life is much cheaper? 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Neapolitan said:

Just had a zoom meeting with folks in my company. Office to open again maybe after summer, but even then, company will adopt hot desking, meaning if you want to work from home you can basically do it. 
 

Wondering if at this point any law will not allow me to move e.g.: sunny Spain and rent a seaside house for like 500 euro per month? What’s the point paying >£1000 in London if I can rent for half that figure somewhere else, maybe not too far from large cities, where life is much cheaper? 
 

 

None that I can think of. Other than complications of the obvious.

I did it for a month last year in Naples. Had a grand old time :)

 

Caveat: I had to agree to pay any travel costs out of my own pocket, should the need arise.

Edited by Chunketh
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18 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

None that I can think of. Other than complications of the obvious.

I did it for a month last year in Naples. Had a grand old time :)

 

Caveat: I had to agree to pay any travel costs out of my own pocket, should the need arise.

Naples too expensive. A nice flat in Posillipo would end up being more expensive than the one in London! 

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9 minutes ago, Locke said:

International travel is going to become eye wateringly expensive.

Honestly, I would end up being in London 5 days every month. With a little bit of planning I’m sure I will still save some money!

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41 minutes ago, Neapolitan said:

Naples too expensive. A nice flat in Posillipo would end up being more expensive than the one in London! 

Aye, cant comment on that. I was stopping in a flat that was provided "free" to the missus while she did a TEFL course. If I were there longer it would be a rental on one of the islands (Ischia probably), or around the bay, someplace a little isolated with a view.

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1 hour ago, Locke said:

International travel is going to become eye wateringly expensive.

Long haul certainly - perhaps less so in Europe if Ryanair, Wizz air and easyJet have their way!

i can’t see many other nations opening up their country to European or US travellers anytime soon. Certainly not the likes of Australia or NZ or Middle Eastern nations or places like Singapore and HK.

Edited by MARTINX9
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2 hours ago, Locke said:

International travel is going to become eye wateringly expensive.

I'd agree with that. Also hotels and other accommodation. 

Worst case scenario is Ryanair, easyjet, wizz etc go bust and hotels collapse left right and centre. A long weekend to London from Bucharest, Milan or Gdansk could cost £4k. 

Plenty of people have bought a villa in rural france/Spain for Ryanair or easyjet to stop serving their convenient local airport, tanking local holiday/2nd home prices. 

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

Air travel, maybe.

What else is there? Eurostar and ferries already cost more than first class air travel. I took a family of 4 to Belfast from Edinburgh for 3 days on Ryanair, total cost including hotels, trips and spending money was less than p&o/stena wanted for a car and 4 passengers (£350) 

2 hours ago, Neapolitan said:

Wondering if at this point any law will not allow me to move e.g.: sunny Spain and rent a seaside house for like 500 euro per month? What’s the point paying >£1000 in London if I can rent for half that figure somewhere else, maybe not too far from large cities, where life is much cheaper? 

Laws would certainly stop you working and earning locally even though Spain is in the EU. Though I understand that's not your plan. 

I've known people do this. Anything from the lake district to frankfurt, though they tended to work in the UK Tues to Thurs and commute Mon and Thurs evening. It always seemed extraordinarily stressful.

Problem is anything could happen at short notice, you'll need a plan to get to work in the UK at short notice, or to get to family at short notice, when things happen. You won't be entitled to work locally, and if you need to look for work at short notice in the UK you might have problems also. Brexit also hangs heavy over your plan, what if there is no reciprocal healthcare agreement with Spain and you kid breaks their leg, that could be a £30k bill. 

Tax rules could change once we lave the EU (assuming we do) a UK national selling a home in France today has no CGT liability, once we leave there will potentially be a 49% CGT liability. A worst case scenario might be the loss of mutual tax obligations meaning you pay tax on your income in the UK and in Spain. 

https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/employment/what-if-i-work-abroad-temporarily

Edited by regprentice
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 In 'normal' times this would be such a winner ,  just everything seems so uncertain now for anything part of the EU as we knew it.   Post-virus growing anti-globalism sentiment , coupled with the very real danger of a hostile Brexit and likely a world depression around the corner are just the 'known unknowns' here...  

 As testing and tracking is improved I suspect the virus will be more contained in smaller clusters, which could be a good or bad thing depending on where you are. Future Medical insurance costs and obligations again another uncertainty.

 If your risk exposure is limited to maybe a  14 day quarantine on re-entry and are prepared for more expensive travel costs and maybe some Sterling/Euro movement it sounds an enticing idea.  

 

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14 hours ago, Neapolitan said:

Just had a zoom meeting with folks in my company. Office to open again maybe after summer, but even then, company will adopt hot desking, meaning if you want to work from home you can basically do it. 
 

Wondering if at this point any law will not allow me to move e.g.: sunny Spain and rent a seaside house for like 500 euro per month? What’s the point paying >£1000 in London if I can rent for half that figure somewhere else, maybe not too far from large cities, where life is much cheaper? 
 

 

Well freedom of movement ends on 31 Dec this year. So that may well stop you, though of course it depends on how strict they are with UK immigrants. Looks like we plan to be strict with EU immigrants though....

If you really want to do this, it may be best to make the move before 31 Dec to benefit from a right to remain under current rules?

 

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Ha!

Its very very very dodgy ground.

Matalan founder sues PwC over tax advice

John Hargreaves claims ‘Big Four’ firm gave him bad guidance when he moved to Monaco

 

https://www.ft.com/content/cbb16c80-9a4c-413d-a21b-033fb9c4b8ab

Idiot sub_green 'milionaire' sold up shares, moved to Monaco.

However, he carried on working 3 days/week  and staying over in Liverpool.

 

Unless you have an exceptional set up then you will fall of various residence and tax rules.

 

 

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Just now, spyguy said:

Ha!

Its very very very dodgy ground.

Matalan founder sues PwC over tax advice

John Hargreaves claims ‘Big Four’ firm gave him bad guidance when he moved to Monaco

 

https://www.ft.com/content/cbb16c80-9a4c-413d-a21b-033fb9c4b8ab

Idiot sub_green 'milionaire' sold up shares, moved to Monaco.

However, he carried on working 3 days/week  and staying over in Liverpool.

 

Unless you have an exceptional set up then you will fall of various residence and tax rules.

 

 

Well, you just find out the residence rules and work out where to pay tax. I lived in France, whilst employed in the UK. All I had to do was instead pay tax in France, though obviously I spent many hours researching what the correct thing to do is (because my employer was useless and knew nothing, even though they sent me there!).

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6 minutes ago, MancTom said:

Well, you just find out the residence rules and work out where to pay tax. I lived in France, whilst employed in the UK. All I had to do was instead pay tax in France, though obviously I spent many hours researching what the correct thing to do is (because my employer was useless and knew nothing, even though they sent me there!).

Why would you choose to pay taxes in France rather than the UK?

France taxation is brutal.

 

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5 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Why would you choose to pay taxes in France rather than the UK?

France taxation is brutal.

 

Its not a choice, once resident in France you have to pay tax there. In the end its why I moved back, though my employer wanted me to stay (but were not prepared to pay more to compensate for the high tax rates).

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14 hours ago, Neapolitan said:

Just had a zoom meeting with folks in my company. Office to open again maybe after summer, but even then, company will adopt hot desking, meaning if you want to work from home you can basically do it. 
 

Wondering if at this point any law will not allow me to move e.g.: sunny Spain and rent a seaside house for like 500 euro per month? What’s the point paying >£1000 in London if I can rent for half that figure somewhere else, maybe not too far from large cities, where life is much cheaper? 

As MancTom mentioned earlier, your main issue will be to have your tax affairs in order. Legally you are liable to pay income tax in your country of residency. Meaning where you spend half of your year in, and no loophole like you spend a third of your time a year in 3 different countries. You must prove at least one tax residency to get any HMRC equivalent of your back.

If you are a contractor, you can just create a new company in your new country and apply the local tax code. If you are an employee, your company won't be setup for that the way it is in the UK with PAYE and NI. This will be more difficult.

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27 minutes ago, Freki said:

As MancTom mentioned earlier, your main issue will be to have your tax affairs in order. Legally you are liable to pay income tax in your country of residency. Meaning where you spend half of your year in, and no loophole like you spend a third of your time a year in 3 different countries. You must prove at least one tax residency to get any HMRC equivalent of your back.

If you are a contractor, you can just create a new company in your new country and apply the local tax code. If you are an employee, your company won't be setup for that the way it is in the UK with PAYE and NI. This will be more difficult.

and don't forget tax years don't conincide between countries in all cases, so you will need to read up on any double taxation agreements - i.e. you can be resident in more than one country for taxation purposes under the 6 month in any one "year" rule, but there usually should be an algorithm agreed by treaty to decide where you pay tax. You have to make sure both authorities agree with what you decide is the case.

Edited by MancTom
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Why not just move out of London and to a rural area in the UK? 

Plenty of lovely, reasonably cheap (certainly compared to London) areas out there. And you keep the benefit of the NHS, and avoid the hassle of complicated taxation and international travel. 

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4 hours ago, Freki said:

If you are an employee, your company won't be setup for that the way it is in the UK with PAYE and NI. This will be more difficult.

Your employer may also not want to deal with foreign employment laws and complications like whether you have UK employment rights or those of the country you live in.

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3 hours ago, RentingForever said:

Why not just move out of London and to a rural area in the UK? 

Plenty of lovely, reasonably cheap (certainly compared to London) areas out there. And you keep the benefit of the NHS, and avoid the hassle of complicated taxation and international travel. 

plenty of personal reasons to be honest. Cheaper life, some outdoors sports are more easily enjoyed in other parts of the world (anything that requires a proper mountain for instance ;) ),  amount of sun, mastering a foreign language ... You can really have as many reasons as people in the world.

 

14 minutes ago, gp_ said:

Your employer may also not want to deal with foreign employment laws and complications like whether you have UK employment rights or those of the country you live in.

 Definitely, the easy way out is to become a contractor for the company. But will EU companies be able to sell their services to the UK in the way it is done currently once Brexit hits? 

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3 hours ago, RentingForever said:

Why not just move out of London and to a rural area in the UK? 

Plenty of lovely, reasonably cheap (certainly compared to London) areas out there. And you keep the benefit of the NHS, and avoid the hassle of complicated taxation and international travel. 

Any recommendations - cheap but not too chavvy?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, RentingForever said:

Why not just move out of London and to a rural area in the UK? 

Plenty of lovely, reasonably cheap (certainly compared to London) areas out there. And you keep the benefit of the NHS, and avoid the hassle of complicated taxation and international travel. 

You can access for free to very good heath systems everywhere in Western Europe. This is not 1930 anymore. Or do you really think the system in Spain is worse than the English/Welsh one? 
I love the countryside but I love a warm beach more.

Edited by Neapolitan
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30 minutes ago, Neapolitan said:

You can access for free to very good heath systems everywhere in Western Europe. 

Brexit may put a stop to that sadly, especially if you plan on becoming resident somewhere.

Edited by spacedin
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  • 419 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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