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1 hour ago, crumblingcon said:

Yep, and many of us held firm and took the sniggering and constant unwanted advice that we should load up with mass debt. In these past few months I have started to feel like I am walking around watching people with big chain and balls on as I prance around in total freedom and shackle free, bring it on whatever it is post virus as I am in a position to handle it, try and escape massive debt, look at people now with the offer of short mortgage holidays, they are like junkies desperate for a short respite before it gets worse for them

100% agree with this.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Mancunian284 said:

This is an excellent thread and has run to 13 pages in less than 24 hours.  Fur is flying and there is an underlying whiff of fear among the  'I bought a house by scrimping/saving/moving to a less desirable area/having 5 jobs/not having a life' brigade.

Warning - there are some really nasty types on Mumsnet so it will raise your blood pressure.

Edited by dougless
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32 minutes ago, dougless said:

This is an excellent thread and has run to 13 pages in less than 24 hours.  Fur is flying and there is an underlying whiff of fear among the  'I bought a house by scrimping/saving/moving to a less desirable area/having 5 jobs/not having a life' brigade.

Warning - there are some really nasty types on Mumsnet so it will raise your blood pressure.

Ooh, it’s really got going this morning ?.

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That post by somenerve is outstanding, a great summary of the situation. (A HPC'er?). Clearly the mumsnutters are reverting to type as they can't properly argue against the points made by them:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3917005-To-think-most-property-owners-don-t-understand-how-hard-it-now-is-to-buy-a-house?pg=14

**************************************************************

somenerve Sat 23-May-20 09:09:37

would you like to elaborate on that?

On an individual level it may seem great when a bank is willing to give you lots of money, at a low rate, to buy that house you want. But what it actually does it push prices up.

You may think prices go up because of supply and demand of, well, houses, and that’s certainly part of it: but what got us to the point where people on decent salaries, without an inheritance, are finding it impossible to buy a house they can live a good life in (rather than barely squeeze into for a couple of years and hope to sell at a profit, probably in a place where they can’t find a job), is the supply of money available to borrow. Don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe the Bank of England, itself the chief culprit: positivemoney.org/2019/09/bank-of-england-confirms-positive-money-analysis-of-house-prices/

The system is set up for young first time buyers stepping onto a low rung of the ladder, then spending their productive working lives climbing it. If it isn’t obvious to you that this system and “the ladder” is broken, we’re probably never going to agree on anything. It’s even worse if you didn’t order your life just so, and run into a situation where, as a previous poster put it,

we thought we had time on our side, since house prices back before about 1998 ish were only 3 times normal wages. You could even find houses at just double wages in cheap areas. Then they doubled, we all thought they'd fall again and waited: then they doubled again, tripled, and finally quadrupled and that was that, most people were locked out unless they had parents to help. It changed so quickly.

A lot of people “don’t get it” because they got extraordinarily lucky with timing and figure the ladder worked for them, of course it’ll work for you, if you just “make sacrifices” (this is where avocados usually come into the conversation). It may be the only sacrifice you can make at that point is to restrain yourself from slapping them.

I get that if you’ve managed to buy a house, the thought of it suddenly losing value, even if that’s just theoretical at the moment, can be scary, and it will make you angry when people suggest prices should come down (“crash” is the preferred terminology for maximum psychological effect). They’re trying to take money from your pocket!

Look at it from their point of view. (Well, from mine.) As a saver suffering many years now of extraordinarily low interest rates, the fact that rates have been kept low to prop up the market you’ve bought into means money has been taken from my pocket.

Also, you’ve purchased what in all likelihood is a very overpriced house, helping to set a price for whatever street you live on, your transaction yet another little data point in the great housing spreadsheet of the nation. Perhaps you’ve used “help to buy” or shared ownership or some other crackpot scheme cooked up to keep the whole wheeze going (another one of those things that may or may not be great for you, but is awful on a larger scale). I don’t know your circumstances. Maybe you’ve even worked nose to the grindstone at three jobs and have never caught a whiff of avocado other than from the bathroom suite at your nana’s. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that a) you’ve just done your bit to keep prices high, and b) many, many of you now figure you’re a protected species: that your possible negative equity is a worse fate than not being able to buy in the first place.

Sorry, but chances are you’ve become part of the problem. Don’t believe me? Believe an articulate homeowner: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/i-was-an-angry-young-renter-who-railed-against-the-mortgage-indu/

We’re now at a point where otherwise nice people may be actively rooting for a Covid crash or a Brexit crash or any crash really, not because they want to inflict pain on you personally, but because it looks like the only way for them to have a shot at owning a house.

This is where homeowners usually say but the economy will be trashed!! Banks won’t lend!! Be careful what you wish for!!! I would suggest that they’re more concerned about their money making machine breaking down than they are about the predicament of non-homeowners.

As far as I’m concerned, the status quo is a worse option. Housing sucks up far too much money, which could be better spent elsewhere in the economy. Uncounted years of life are spent servicing debt that needn’t be. “Affordability” is king, pay less for longer so really pay a lot more in the end because who cares? You’re planning to be long gone…

Unless something big happens to shake things up, the future looks to be even more debt servitude, and at best, owning a small slice of a house because we mustn’t ever let them come down in price. Anyway, the economy is already ******ed. If it isn’t for you personally, good for you; but it is for a lot of people, simply because it isn’t working very well to provide decent options for shelter and stability.

Tl;dr: if you don’t see a BIG problem, it suits you to not be looking very hard

Edited by highcontrast
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4 hours ago, highcontrast said:

That post by somenerve is outstanding, a great summary of the situation. (A HPC'er?). Clearly the mumsnutters are reverting to type as they can't properly argue against the points made by them:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3917005-To-think-most-property-owners-don-t-understand-how-hard-it-now-is-to-buy-a-house?pg=14

**************************************************************

somenerve Sat 23-May-20 09:09:37

would you like to elaborate on that?

On an individual level it may seem great when a bank is willing to give you lots of money, at a low rate, to buy that house you want. But what it actually does it push prices up.

You may think prices go up because of supply and demand of, well, houses, and that’s certainly part of it: but what got us to the point where people on decent salaries, without an inheritance, are finding it impossible to buy a house they can live a good life in (rather than barely squeeze into for a couple of years and hope to sell at a profit, probably in a place where they can’t find a job), is the supply of money available to borrow. Don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe the Bank of England, itself the chief culprit: positivemoney.org/2019/09/bank-of-england-confirms-positive-money-analysis-of-house-prices/

The system is set up for young first time buyers stepping onto a low rung of the ladder, then spending their productive working lives climbing it. If it isn’t obvious to you that this system and “the ladder” is broken, we’re probably never going to agree on anything. It’s even worse if you didn’t order your life just so, and run into a situation where, as a previous poster put it,

we thought we had time on our side, since house prices back before about 1998 ish were only 3 times normal wages. You could even find houses at just double wages in cheap areas. Then they doubled, we all thought they'd fall again and waited: then they doubled again, tripled, and finally quadrupled and that was that, most people were locked out unless they had parents to help. It changed so quickly.

A lot of people “don’t get it” because they got extraordinarily lucky with timing and figure the ladder worked for them, of course it’ll work for you, if you just “make sacrifices” (this is where avocados usually come into the conversation). It may be the only sacrifice you can make at that point is to restrain yourself from slapping them.

I get that if you’ve managed to buy a house, the thought of it suddenly losing value, even if that’s just theoretical at the moment, can be scary, and it will make you angry when people suggest prices should come down (“crash” is the preferred terminology for maximum psychological effect). They’re trying to take money from your pocket!

Look at it from their point of view. (Well, from mine.) As a saver suffering many years now of extraordinarily low interest rates, the fact that rates have been kept low to prop up the market you’ve bought into means money has been taken from my pocket.

Also, you’ve purchased what in all likelihood is a very overpriced house, helping to set a price for whatever street you live on, your transaction yet another little data point in the great housing spreadsheet of the nation. Perhaps you’ve used “help to buy” or shared ownership or some other crackpot scheme cooked up to keep the whole wheeze going (another one of those things that may or may not be great for you, but is awful on a larger scale). I don’t know your circumstances. Maybe you’ve even worked nose to the grindstone at three jobs and have never caught a whiff of avocado other than from the bathroom suite at your nana’s. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that a) you’ve just done your bit to keep prices high, and b) many, many of you now figure you’re a protected species: that your possible negative equity is a worse fate than not being able to buy in the first place.

Sorry, but chances are you’ve become part of the problem. Don’t believe me? Believe an articulate homeowner: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/i-was-an-angry-young-renter-who-railed-against-the-mortgage-indu/

We’re now at a point where otherwise nice people may be actively rooting for a Covid crash or a Brexit crash or any crash really, not because they want to inflict pain on you personally, but because it looks like the only way for them to have a shot at owning a house.

This is where homeowners usually say but the economy will be trashed!! Banks won’t lend!! Be careful what you wish for!!! I would suggest that they’re more concerned about their money making machine breaking down than they are about the predicament of non-homeowners.

As far as I’m concerned, the status quo is a worse option. Housing sucks up far too much money, which could be better spent elsewhere in the economy. Uncounted years of life are spent servicing debt that needn’t be. “Affordability” is king, pay less for longer so really pay a lot more in the end because who cares? You’re planning to be long gone…

Unless something big happens to shake things up, the future looks to be even more debt servitude, and at best, owning a small slice of a house because we mustn’t ever let them come down in price. Anyway, the economy is already ******ed. If it isn’t for you personally, good for you; but it is for a lot of people, simply because it isn’t working very well to provide decent options for shelter and stability.

Tl;dr: if you don’t see a BIG problem, it suits you to not be looking very hard

I am a home owner and I agree with you.  Although I would an economy where people cannot afford secure accommodation is already trashed!!!  The sad thing is I bought in 2001 and moved  up in 2006 and despite HPI already being a problem then - what I paid looks like a bargain compared to 2019 prices!!!

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4 hours ago, highcontrast said:

That post by somenerve is outstanding,

I can save you half a page :)

'Houses are in a massive asset bubble which will correct at some point.'

Doubt they would comprehend that at mumsnet though so maybe the detailed explanation is needed.

 

 

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4 hours ago, highcontrast said:

That post by somenerve is outstanding, a great summary of the situation. (A HPC'er?). Clearly the mumsnutters are reverting to type as they can't properly argue against the points made by them:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3917005-To-think-most-property-owners-don-t-understand-how-hard-it-now-is-to-buy-a-house?pg=14

**************************************************************

somenerve Sat 23-May-20 09:09:37

would you like to elaborate on that?

On an individual level it may seem great when a bank is willing to give you lots of money, at a low rate, to buy that house you want. But what it actually does it push prices up.

You may think prices go up because of supply and demand of, well, houses, and that’s certainly part of it: but what got us to the point where people on decent salaries, without an inheritance, are finding it impossible to buy a house they can live a good life in (rather than barely squeeze into for a couple of years and hope to sell at a profit, probably in a place where they can’t find a job), is the supply of money available to borrow. Don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe the Bank of England, itself the chief culprit: positivemoney.org/2019/09/bank-of-england-confirms-positive-money-analysis-of-house-prices/

The system is set up for young first time buyers stepping onto a low rung of the ladder, then spending their productive working lives climbing it. If it isn’t obvious to you that this system and “the ladder” is broken, we’re probably never going to agree on anything. It’s even worse if you didn’t order your life just so, and run into a situation where, as a previous poster put it,

we thought we had time on our side, since house prices back before about 1998 ish were only 3 times normal wages. You could even find houses at just double wages in cheap areas. Then they doubled, we all thought they'd fall again and waited: then they doubled again, tripled, and finally quadrupled and that was that, most people were locked out unless they had parents to help. It changed so quickly.

A lot of people “don’t get it” because they got extraordinarily lucky with timing and figure the ladder worked for them, of course it’ll work for you, if you just “make sacrifices” (this is where avocados usually come into the conversation). It may be the only sacrifice you can make at that point is to restrain yourself from slapping them.

I get that if you’ve managed to buy a house, the thought of it suddenly losing value, even if that’s just theoretical at the moment, can be scary, and it will make you angry when people suggest prices should come down (“crash” is the preferred terminology for maximum psychological effect). They’re trying to take money from your pocket!

Look at it from their point of view. (Well, from mine.) As a saver suffering many years now of extraordinarily low interest rates, the fact that rates have been kept low to prop up the market you’ve bought into means money has been taken from my pocket.

Also, you’ve purchased what in all likelihood is a very overpriced house, helping to set a price for whatever street you live on, your transaction yet another little data point in the great housing spreadsheet of the nation. Perhaps you’ve used “help to buy” or shared ownership or some other crackpot scheme cooked up to keep the whole wheeze going (another one of those things that may or may not be great for you, but is awful on a larger scale). I don’t know your circumstances. Maybe you’ve even worked nose to the grindstone at three jobs and have never caught a whiff of avocado other than from the bathroom suite at your nana’s. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that a) you’ve just done your bit to keep prices high, and b) many, many of you now figure you’re a protected species: that your possible negative equity is a worse fate than not being able to buy in the first place.

Sorry, but chances are you’ve become part of the problem. Don’t believe me? Believe an articulate homeowner: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/i-was-an-angry-young-renter-who-railed-against-the-mortgage-indu/

We’re now at a point where otherwise nice people may be actively rooting for a Covid crash or a Brexit crash or any crash really, not because they want to inflict pain on you personally, but because it looks like the only way for them to have a shot at owning a house.

This is where homeowners usually say but the economy will be trashed!! Banks won’t lend!! Be careful what you wish for!!! I would suggest that they’re more concerned about their money making machine breaking down than they are about the predicament of non-homeowners.

As far as I’m concerned, the status quo is a worse option. Housing sucks up far too much money, which could be better spent elsewhere in the economy. Uncounted years of life are spent servicing debt that needn’t be. “Affordability” is king, pay less for longer so really pay a lot more in the end because who cares? You’re planning to be long gone…

Unless something big happens to shake things up, the future looks to be even more debt servitude, and at best, owning a small slice of a house because we mustn’t ever let them come down in price. Anyway, the economy is already ******ed. If it isn’t for you personally, good for you; but it is for a lot of people, simply because it isn’t working very well to provide decent options for shelter and stability.

Tl;dr: if you don’t see a BIG problem, it suits you to not be looking very hard

good poster that

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16 hours ago, Drifty said:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3917010-Help-my-buyers-have-reduced-their-offer

What a surprise...a topic where the poster got 8% reduction above them on the chain and their buyer is asking for 12.5% off.

Can't wait for next's week post where it's 20% off. ? 

This one is still going round in circles.  I’m guessing WeaselKnickers is calling in from here too.

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On 23/05/2020 at 10:19, highcontrast said:

Unless something big happens to shake things up, the future looks to be even more debt servitude, and at best, owning a small slice of a house because we mustn’t ever let them come down in price. Anyway, the economy is already ******ed. If it isn’t for you personally, good for you; but it is for a lot of people, simply because it isn’t working very well to provide decent options for shelter and stability.

Tl;dr: if you don’t see a BIG problem, it suits you to not be looking very hard

Wow this poster really got to to the point, amazing bit of insight into the mumsnet community as well.

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

Buying houses to rent out, would be fine if the supply of new houses was not restricted making the price of houses more expensive.  No one complains about car rental agencies

Yes agreed, scarcity and competitive bidding for housing is at the heart of the issue despite what many on here claim...

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3 hours ago, Wayward said:

Yes agreed, scarcity and competitive bidding for housing is at the heart of the issue despite what many on here claim...

It is ok I think to say prices in Cornwall have increased because of retirees from London but not that prices in London have increased because of immigration - hard to believe but such is life.

Someone will either a) call me racist b) talk about something irrelevant or both.

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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

It is ok I think to say prices in Cornwall have increased because of retirees from London but not that prices in London have increased because of immigration - hard to believe but such is life.

Someone will either a) call me racist b) talk about something irrelevant or both.

Population growth is a driver of demand and, relative to a fixed level of supply, it will cause the equilibrium price of housing to be higher. 

I cannot see how it is racist to say that population growth in London through immigration, movement from North to South or through higher birth rates, leads to higher demand and a higher clearing price for housing than would otherwise be the case. 

Having just relocated from London to Northern Ireland, I'm pleased to find a society with a much greater level of equality and a much higher standard of housing for regular people.  There has been population growth here, but matched with a serious growth of quality housing stock over the past 20 years.  NB no big house builders here, all small local builders.

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On 23/05/2020 at 10:19, highcontrast said:

On an individual level it may seem great when a bank is willing to give you lots of money, at a low rate, to buy that house you want. But what it actually does it push prices up.

You may think prices go up because of supply and demand of, well, houses, and that’s certainly part of it: but what got us to the point where people on decent salaries, without an inheritance, are finding it impossible to buy a house they can live a good life in (rather than barely squeeze into for a couple of years and hope to sell at a profit, probably in a place where they can’t find a job), is the supply of money available to borrow. Don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe the Bank of England, itself the chief culprit: positivemoney.org/2019/09/bank-of-england-confirms-positive-money-analysis-of-house-prices/

The system is set up for young first time buyers stepping onto a low rung of the ladder, then spending their productive working lives climbing it. If it isn’t obvious to you that this system and “the ladder” is broken, we’re probably never going to agree on anything. It’s even worse if you didn’t order your life just so, and run into a situation where, as a previous poster put it,

we thought we had time on our side, since house prices back before about 1998 ish were only 3 times normal wages. You could even find houses at just double wages in cheap areas. Then they doubled, we all thought they'd fall again and waited: then they doubled again, tripled, and finally quadrupled and that was that, most people were locked out unless they had parents to help. It changed so quickly.

A lot of people “don’t get it” because they got extraordinarily lucky with timing and figure the ladder worked for them, of course it’ll work for you, if you just “make sacrifices” (this is where avocados usually come into the conversation). It may be the only sacrifice you can make at that point is to restrain yourself from slapping them.

I get that if you’ve managed to buy a house, the thought of it suddenly losing value, even if that’s just theoretical at the moment, can be scary, and it will make you angry when people suggest prices should come down (“crash” is the preferred terminology for maximum psychological effect). They’re trying to take money from your pocket!

Look at it from their point of view. (Well, from mine.) As a saver suffering many years now of extraordinarily low interest rates, the fact that rates have been kept low to prop up the market you’ve bought into means money has been taken from my pocket.

Also, you’ve purchased what in all likelihood is a very overpriced house, helping to set a price for whatever street you live on, your transaction yet another little data point in the great housing spreadsheet of the nation. Perhaps you’ve used “help to buy” or shared ownership or some other crackpot scheme cooked up to keep the whole wheeze going (another one of those things that may or may not be great for you, but is awful on a larger scale). I don’t know your circumstances. Maybe you’ve even worked nose to the grindstone at three jobs and have never caught a whiff of avocado other than from the bathroom suite at your nana’s. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that a) you’ve just done your bit to keep prices high, and b) many, many of you now figure you’re a protected species: that your possible negative equity is a worse fate than not being able to buy in the first place.

Sorry, but chances are you’ve become part of the problem. Don’t believe me? Believe an articulate homeowner: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/i-was-an-angry-young-renter-who-railed-against-the-mortgage-indu/

We’re now at a point where otherwise nice people may be actively rooting for a Covid crash or a Brexit crash or any crash really, not because they want to inflict pain on you personally, but because it looks like the only way for them to have a shot at owning a house.

This is where homeowners usually say but the economy will be trashed!! Banks won’t lend!! Be careful what you wish for!!! I would suggest that they’re more concerned about their money making machine breaking down than they are about the predicament of non-homeowners.

As far as I’m concerned, the status quo is a worse option. Housing sucks up far too much money, which could be better spent elsewhere in the economy. Uncounted years of life are spent servicing debt that needn’t be. “Affordability” is king, pay less for longer so really pay a lot more in the end because who cares? You’re planning to be long gone…

Unless something big happens to shake things up, the future looks to be even more debt servitude, and at best, owning a small slice of a house because we mustn’t ever let them come down in price. Anyway, the economy is already ******ed. If it isn’t for you personally, good for you; but it is for a lot of people, simply because it isn’t working very well to provide decent options for shelter and stability.

Tl;dr: if you don’t see a BIG problem, it suits you to not be looking very hard

Is this is not one of our regular House Price Crashers posting this I would be amazed. It is thought through, articulate and persuasive. 

A killer argument. 

If it isn't, someone find out who it is and invite them on here. 

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On 23/05/2020 at 11:19, highcontrast said:

That post by somenerve is outstanding, a great summary of the situation. (A HPC'er?). Clearly the mumsnutters are reverting to type as they can't properly argue against the points made by them:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3917005-To-think-most-property-owners-don-t-understand-how-hard-it-now-is-to-buy-a-house?pg=14

**************************************************************

somenerve Sat 23-May-20 09:09:37

would you like to elaborate on that?

On an individual level it may seem great when a bank is willing to give you lots of money, at a low rate, to buy that house you want. But what it actually does it push prices up.

You may think prices go up because of supply and demand of, well, houses, and that’s certainly part of it: but what got us to the point where people on decent salaries, without an inheritance, are finding it impossible to buy a house they can live a good life in (rather than barely squeeze into for a couple of years and hope to sell at a profit, probably in a place where they can’t find a job), is the supply of money available to borrow. Don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe the Bank of England, itself the chief culprit: positivemoney.org/2019/09/bank-of-england-confirms-positive-money-analysis-of-house-prices/

The system is set up for young first time buyers stepping onto a low rung of the ladder, then spending their productive working lives climbing it. If it isn’t obvious to you that this system and “the ladder” is broken, we’re probably never going to agree on anything. It’s even worse if you didn’t order your life just so, and run into a situation where, as a previous poster put it,

we thought we had time on our side, since house prices back before about 1998 ish were only 3 times normal wages. You could even find houses at just double wages in cheap areas. Then they doubled, we all thought they'd fall again and waited: then they doubled again, tripled, and finally quadrupled and that was that, most people were locked out unless they had parents to help. It changed so quickly.

A lot of people “don’t get it” because they got extraordinarily lucky with timing and figure the ladder worked for them, of course it’ll work for you, if you just “make sacrifices” (this is where avocados usually come into the conversation). It may be the only sacrifice you can make at that point is to restrain yourself from slapping them.

I get that if you’ve managed to buy a house, the thought of it suddenly losing value, even if that’s just theoretical at the moment, can be scary, and it will make you angry when people suggest prices should come down (“crash” is the preferred terminology for maximum psychological effect). They’re trying to take money from your pocket!

Look at it from their point of view. (Well, from mine.) As a saver suffering many years now of extraordinarily low interest rates, the fact that rates have been kept low to prop up the market you’ve bought into means money has been taken from my pocket.

Also, you’ve purchased what in all likelihood is a very overpriced house, helping to set a price for whatever street you live on, your transaction yet another little data point in the great housing spreadsheet of the nation. Perhaps you’ve used “help to buy” or shared ownership or some other crackpot scheme cooked up to keep the whole wheeze going (another one of those things that may or may not be great for you, but is awful on a larger scale). I don’t know your circumstances. Maybe you’ve even worked nose to the grindstone at three jobs and have never caught a whiff of avocado other than from the bathroom suite at your nana’s. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that a) you’ve just done your bit to keep prices high, and b) many, many of you now figure you’re a protected species: that your possible negative equity is a worse fate than not being able to buy in the first place.

Sorry, but chances are you’ve become part of the problem. Don’t believe me? Believe an articulate homeowner: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/i-was-an-angry-young-renter-who-railed-against-the-mortgage-indu/

We’re now at a point where otherwise nice people may be actively rooting for a Covid crash or a Brexit crash or any crash really, not because they want to inflict pain on you personally, but because it looks like the only way for them to have a shot at owning a house.

This is where homeowners usually say but the economy will be trashed!! Banks won’t lend!! Be careful what you wish for!!! I would suggest that they’re more concerned about their money making machine breaking down than they are about the predicament of non-homeowners.

As far as I’m concerned, the status quo is a worse option. Housing sucks up far too much money, which could be better spent elsewhere in the economy. Uncounted years of life are spent servicing debt that needn’t be. “Affordability” is king, pay less for longer so really pay a lot more in the end because who cares? You’re planning to be long gone…

Unless something big happens to shake things up, the future looks to be even more debt servitude, and at best, owning a small slice of a house because we mustn’t ever let them come down in price. Anyway, the economy is already ******ed. If it isn’t for you personally, good for you; but it is for a lot of people, simply because it isn’t working very well to provide decent options for shelter and stability.

Tl;dr: if you don’t see a BIG problem, it suits you to not be looking very hard

Good grief, so well spelt out.

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1 hour ago, Society of fools said:

Is this is not one of our regular House Price Crashers posting this I would be amazed. It is thought through, articulate and persuasive. 

A killer argument. 

If it isn't, someone find out who it is and invite them on here. 

The thing is, none of it is not obvious. It is apparent with some intelligence and a little application of thought.

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3 hours ago, Bob8 said:

The thing is, none of it is not obvious. It is apparent with some intelligence and a little application of thought.

Quite right. But human psychology is a bitch. 

I worked in Eastern Europe throughout much of the early 90's ( Rumania/Ukraine mostly). In those immediate post Soviet times Ponzi investment schemes were rife, and huge numbers of people were sucked in. 

To my surprise, when they inevitably collapsed the public reaction was not to kick themselves up the **** for being complete pillocks and go home embarrassed to lick their financial wounds, but to go out on the streets and protest en-masse.

Many demanded in all seriousnous that the government compensate them for their losses. One of the "investors" even sued the government asking them to refund all the tax they had levied on the Ponzi scheme ( while it lasted) and use that sum to partially recompense the losers. ( He lost) . 

I looked at the whole thing with disbelief. You make a ******ed investment and lose all or most or even a little of it then that's your sole responsibility, nobody else's, and it certainly isn't the role of the taxpayer to bail you out. 

I am thinking now that those Rumainians and Ukrainians weren't actually that different from a lot of Brits invested in real estate these days. 

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On 03/07/2020 at 11:38, Society of fools said:

Quite right. But human psychology is a bitch. 

I worked in Eastern Europe throughout much of the early 90's ( Rumania/Ukraine mostly). In those immediate post Soviet times Ponzi investment schemes were rife, and huge numbers of people were sucked in. 

To my surprise, when they inevitably collapsed the public reaction was not to kick themselves up the **** for being complete pillocks and go home embarrassed to lick their financial wounds, but to go out on the streets and protest en-masse.

Many demanded in all seriousnous that the government compensate them for their losses. One of the "investors" even sued the government asking them to refund all the tax they had levied on the Ponzi scheme ( while it lasted) and use that sum to partially recompense the losers. ( He lost) . 

I looked at the whole thing with disbelief. You make a ******ed investment and lose all or most or even a little of it then that's your sole responsibility, nobody else's, and it certainly isn't the role of the taxpayer to bail you out. 

I am thinking now that those Rumainians and Ukrainians weren't actually that different from a lot of Brits invested in real estate these days. 

Thanks, a very interesting post.

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  • 442 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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