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Sentiment turning on mumsnet


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11 hours ago, spyguy said:

Reading a bit ....

Are the mumsnetters competing to say how money theyve *lost* on London property places now?

Yeah. We were going to lose just 50k so DH had the house decorated with Farrow n Ball and now we've lost 70k.

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2 hours ago, Pop321 said:

Nice find.Have to say thismumsnet thread is more bearish the the HPC threads have been lately....myself included.

Nice to see some bears around as a reminder of the elephant in the room.

The thing that strikes me about these posts is the use of "I bought" and "I sold" when presumably in most cases it involved a partner and often the woman will have contributed less than half.
Its as if they see the money and property as theirs and their partner/husband as a mechanism for securing it.

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On 12/03/2021 at 14:20, Riedquat said:

Still got some sense of injustice? Or want a bigger house and realise that if they're falling they'll gain from their house falling a little but the bigger one falling more?

Id give you that if it wasn't for the fact they come on here, have a dig at the CON (who actively campaigns in twitter against this madness and runs the property lion index/fee) , then 10 other accounts agree.

Seems a bit.... Odd don't you think

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1 hour ago, Twenty Something said:

How long is the sentiment turning set to take in your opinion given this thread is nearly a year old? Is it still turning? Has it turned? If not, when might it do so?

Who's opinion? This is a discussion. It has more than one person.

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12 hours ago, simon2 said:

At least she's honest.... IMO if you bought a flat in 2016 in LondonI don't think there are many places that would have appreciated in value. Almost certainly any that did are not the modern ones.

Here is another case:https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6253445/issues-selling-flat-help/p1

Nobody wants to tell the OP its price, rather just go around the edges and pretend removing a chair or putting some flowers on the table will do the trick.

It's quite funny that an investor posted as well - how could the yield ever stack up at 瞿400k for a place like this? A 1-bed apartment would most likely go at 瞿1,300 pcm.

Less service charges of c.瞿300/month, less agents commission, less provisions for voids and maintenance.... the game always was capital appreciation and that looks to have gone for these type of flats, not least because they are building tonnes more of them.

I dont think its just flats.

Aside from the uber prime 10m+++ places, most of London is pretty ordinary.

A lot of London is pretty dire - sh1tholes by bust roads, high rise/high density, basically.

AFAICT 95%+ of London has been falling for ~5 years.

London has lost of high paying jobs. A Polish Uber driver or Portuguese Pret worker is not really going to be getting a mortgage.

In the gormless attempt to ';get people on the ladder' HTB v2 was brought in.

However ... rather than creating 100k of OO with equity to transfer, most HTB2 is seriously under water.

HTBv2 houses were overprices by 30% rather than the usual 10%.

The high rise are beyond a joke and basically worthless.

Theres no equity or additional earning to allow these people to move. Most HTBers were so old that they had kids ASAP ,losing hat 2nd income.

Despite what people may thing, HTB has been shitcanned. The 'new' HTB is the HTBv1 - just a skimpy guarantee from UKGOV and a high price.

The only way most HTBers are moving is when they go bust

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9 hours ago, Si1 said:

Oh but there was the hackneyed old answer in there 'but compare your losses to how much rent you would have paid'

Tomy myfirstcalculator getting some airtime again there.

9 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

They always forget the interest.

8 hours ago, Si1 said:

And the opportunity cost. Maintenance. Insurance. Risk.

I once sat down with my mum, when her mortgage finished - she was one of the last few ones to actual just squeak a repayment with an endowment that matured in the early 80s.

'Its been a fantastic investment' she said. Its not, shes never sold

However, she was scratching her head when I went thru the all the repayments and interest. Even without adjusting for inflation, shed paid a lot more than the house was valued at.

Dont knock it, shes got somewhere to live.

However ,,,, the idea that that housing gives an super duper investment and you should throw all the money youve got - and then more - does not pass muster.

And my mum bought before the 80s gogo (followed by 80s low low) and had a decent amount of wage inflation to beat down the repayments.

Mr n Mrs bought 'just before it all went to shit in 2008' are going to find that

1) They are not earning much more or less than ~20 years ago. Low wage inflation/structural changes in finsec and one giving up FT earnings for kids.

2) Theres few people to sell to. Or at least, few people who can afford to buy it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Replies in this thread are interesting, andseems to suggest sentiment is beginning to turn.https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/4210911-to-wait-for-this-crazy-market-to-calm-down-or-buy-asap

I'm worried that prices will continue rising and we'll never buy anywhere and also the SD saving is definitely appealing to me but dh thinks we'll be better off waiting until that's over.

Have to say I agree with DH, but I bet he's getting some flack from her that they'll be priced out forever if they don't act now! Seems most people are still caught up in the mania even if they know it's unsustainable.

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16 minutes ago, sammersmith said:

Replies in this thread are interesting, andseems to suggest sentiment is beginning to turn.https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/4210911-to-wait-for-this-crazy-market-to-calm-down-or-buy-asap

I'm worried that prices will continue rising and we'll never buy anywhere and also the SD saving is definitely appealing to me but dh thinks we'll be better off waiting until that's over.

Have to say I agree with DH, but I bet he's getting some flack from her that they'll be priced out forever if they don't act now! Seems most people are still caught up in the mania even if they know it's unsustainable.

Nice spot.

Yes, its much more bearishresponses telling her to wait. AndI would absolutely concur unless they snag a bargain....but I guess thats always the case. Never fight for a house when the market is buzzing because a bad buy, and then perhaps the subsequent purchase required to get something better suitedgenuinely can add 10 years to a working life.

One reply looks like it could be straight from one of us crash guysLets face it, we have a totally irrational, bubble like panic buying only driven by sentiment, all other factors are pointing flashing red, but who knows for how much longer the UK housing market can defy gravity.

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21 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

Nice spot.

Yes, its much more bearishresponses telling her to wait. AndI would absolutely concur unless they snag a bargain....but I guess thats always the case. Never fight for a house when the market is buzzing because a bad buy, and then perhaps the subsequent purchase required to get something better suitedgenuinely can add 10 years to a working life.

One reply looks like it could be straight from one of us crash guysLets face it, we have a totally irrational, bubble like panic buying only driven by sentiment, all other factors are pointing flashing red, but who knows for how much longer the UK housing market can defy gravity.

Gradually, year by year since 2008, UK finances are looking more developing country.

Sterling isnt the workds reserve currency, so cannot print and benefit.

UK does have German exporters flushing its coffer - tgats not going to last long for theEU, but theyve got a handful of years left.

So, the UK faces much higher IRs to attract caputal. Or a currency / balance of payment or budget spend problem. Or all of them.

Mumsners seems centred around London/South.

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4 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Gradually, year by year since 2008, UK finances are looking more developing country.

Sterling isnt the workds reserve currency, so cannot print and benefit.

UK does have German exporters flushing its coffer - tgats not going to last long for theEU, but theyve got a handful of years left.

So, the UK faces much higher IRs to attract caputal. Or a currency / balance of payment or budget spend problem. Or all of them.

Mumsners seems centred around London/South.

That's where you look for a high maintenance wife!

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12 minutes ago, highcontrast said:

Sentiment really has turned! Has Mumsnet turned into HPC? Are the sheeple finally starting to get it?

Wailing and gnashing of teeth, as predicted. I do fee sorry for these ones, saving for a decade and still cant buy. Interesting that the calls for lower prices are more mainstream now.

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Just now, satsuma said:

Wailing and gnashing of teeth, as predicted. I do fee sorry for these ones, saving for a decade and still cant buy. Interesting that the calls for lower prices are more mainstream now.

Well I emailed my Labour MP to say much the same and got no reply. She is a boomer property VI and a friend of Gordon Brown though.

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4 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Well I emailed my Labour MP to say much the same and got no reply. She is a boomer property VI and a friend of Gordon Brown though.

Name and shame.

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Don't think sentiment has turned really.

Much the same for MSE as well.

Quite easy to agree with someone how it is ridiculous when you own property assets yourself and you have been enriched by them.

I think that's the case for a lot of the middle classes. They all know that housing is way out of reach for the young generation now. And them buying a new-build on HTB (one of the few ways they can buy) is an absolute sham because the price already was inflated, a double punishment.

It can be easily believable that young people nowadays save for a decade to buy somewhere. But once they do they just turn into the rest of them, slagging off the new young generation for eating avocado toasts and reminding them what sacrifices they made.

I get the feeling if there was a government initiative to really build affordable properties and not the token gestures so farit would get widespread disapproval because it would eventually compromise all the other property prices. So much for wanting the young to afford to buy a place...

Edited by simon2
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4 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Well I emailed my Labour MP to say much the same and got no reply. She is a boomer property VI and a friend of Gordon Brown though.

They are all stuck on the hamster wheel now. Keep pumping the system and hope your not in power when it explodes. Noone is going on record to agree or disagree with housing prices being too high. My advice to you is to wait to the end of the year and if things are still nuts then buy. If you cant buy then its probably time to look at other areas or countries.

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4 minutes ago, satsuma said:

They are all stuck on the hamster wheel now. Keep pumping the system and hope your not in power when it explodes. Noone is going on record to agree or disagree with housing prices being too high. My advice to you is to wait to the end of the year and if things are still nuts then buy. If you cant buy then its probably time to look at other areas or countries.

The tories handled the 90s property crash abysmally and were slaughtered by NuLabour. They are repeating the mistake by burying their head. If they grasped the nettle and showed how housing worked for a new generation, they would get the next 20 years in power.

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7 minutes ago, msi said:

The tories handled the 90s property crash abysmally and were slaughtered by NuLabour. They are repeating the mistake by burying their head. If they grasped the nettle and showed how housing worked for a new generation, they would get the next 20 years in power.

Yeah but Rishi wants to be Prime Minister in the next year or two and besides he owned loads of houses

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2 minutes ago, msi said:

The tories handled the 90s property crash abysmally and were slaughtered by NuLabour. They are repeating the mistake by burying their head. If they grasped the nettle and showed how housing worked for a new generation, they would get the next 20 years in power.

The rot set in after 2012. It's been downhill ever since.

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