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No chance, and I go out without my phone anyway (I’m never more than an hours walk away from home now- trying to disconnect during exercise) so it wouldnt help them even if I did.

Edited by LetsBuild
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Be very lucky if 20% signed up..... first might be a good idea to have 100% mobile phone connection nationwide...... Sort out roaming the sharing of masts with all providers.....and 80% smart phones take up.?

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Seems to have a number of problems. 

Uses Bluetooth to identify people you've been 'near' but can't tell if you were within 2meters or less. 

How will it understand from detecting, a device called 'regs huawei' over Bluetooth means you've been near to reg prentice who lives at 999 letsbe avenue? 

https://tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/nhsx-contact-tracing-app-uk-coronavirus-crisis

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Surveillance is a fact of life in any modern society. It's not going away and I'm not sure that snubbing the NHS app is anything more than a token gesture from those suffering cognitive dissonance  on this matter.

Hearing you all say "hell no", reminds me of those annoying green types who buy expensive re-usable hemp bags instead of one use plastics, all the while not realising the eco cost of the hemp bags outweighs the eco cost of the plastic bag. Or maybe they moan on about wasted energy by big tech while being prolific users of cloud services and streaming video to their mobile.

The reality is if we want to get back to a semblance of normal life some sacrifices need to be made, including some personal "freedoms" which are in reality just an illusion people are clinging to.

I have no issue signing up to it. I just hope it works, although on evidence so far it will be yet another complacent ****-up that we can lay at the door of both the government and society at large.

Most of the uninformed anti-surveillance rhetoric on here is exactly the type of virtue signalling most on this forum so disdain.

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4 hours ago, regprentice said:

Seems to have a number of problems. 

Uses Bluetooth to identify people you've been 'near' but can't tell if you were within 2meters or less. 

How will it understand from detecting, a device called 'regs huawei' over Bluetooth means you've been near to reg prentice who lives at 999 letsbe avenue? 

https://tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/nhsx-contact-tracing-app-uk-coronavirus-crisis

any network enabled device will have a unique hardware address the name is irrelevant.

I would imagine consistent mac address I.e the hardware address that bounce off each other would be either persons in the same household workplace or block that would be quite easy to work out.

overall it could be quite accurate if receiver strength is considered in the data also.

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55 minutes ago, The Preacherman said:

No chance. 

This is another gimmick led by out of touch Hancock. Spend time and resources on sorting out PPE and infection control in hospitals and care homes. 

The thing is that is not what the WHO say. "WHO says Covid-19 patient tracing should be ‘backbone of the response’" Nothing about PPE and infection control. In fact. South Korea and China's contact tracing has been pretty good using apps and phone technology (you can get arrested going out in Hong Kong without your phone) and south korea in particular have won widespread praise for their handling of the crises

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/coronavirus-contact-tracing-explained

So i probably will sign up since the WHO seem to be the experts and if we don't provide the means to enable good contact tracing then we cant really complain if we're in lockdown two months later because of repeat reoccurrence of outbreaks. Unless of course all we want to do is complain restrict the ability to contact trace therefore extend the lockdown then complain when the economy goes down the swanny. The government is to blame for the slow lockdown the british people could be to blame if lockdown is required longer because they didn't embrace contact tracing.

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15 hours ago, Locke said:

Lol apparently all it takes for people to surrender their liberty is are NHS

What aspect of liberty do you think you are surrendering by using the app?

I will sign up if I think it will be useful, although I have my doubts about whether it will be. 

Edited by Confusion of VIs
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3 hours ago, scepticus said:

Surveillance is a fact of life in any modern society. It's not going away and I'm not sure that snubbing the NHS app is anything more than a token gesture from those suffering cognitive dissonance  on this matter.

...

Most of the uninformed anti-surveillance rhetoric on here is exactly the type of virtue signalling most on this forum so disdain.

Nothing uninformed, no cognitive dissonance required to find all the surveillance unwelcome and unpleasant (and you can trot out reasons for every example as to why it's a good thing). So not wanting to have anything to do with it is hardly virtue signalling. Unlike embracing the idea; I'd happily bet that most who do sign up to the idea do it from a "look how good I'm being!" perspective.

Sadly attitudes like yours are why we've successfully had all this crap shoved on us. People who simply don't understand "mind your own business." If those fools hadn't been so keen on all of that then there would be a rather better chance of a one-off short-lived application being accepted. As long as it could be demonstrated to be significantly useful.

Edited by Riedquat
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Doesn't seem much point downloading the app. From the New Statesman article:

Quote

Apple iPhones and the latest Android phones don’t allow Bluetooth to run continuously in the background, the NHSX app wouldn’t be able to run for much of the time. “The app wouldn’t work with the phone locked or while you are using it for anything else,”

i.e. it doesn't actually do anything most of the time.

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8 hours ago, Pebbles said:

The thing is that is not what the WHO say. "WHO says Covid-19 patient tracing should be ‘backbone of the response’" Nothing about PPE and infection control. In fact. South Korea and China's contact tracing has been pretty good using apps and phone technology (you can get arrested going out in Hong Kong without your phone) and south korea in particular have won widespread praise for their handling of the crises

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/coronavirus-contact-tracing-explained

So i probably will sign up since the WHO seem to be the experts and if we don't provide the means to enable good contact tracing then we cant really complain if we're in lockdown two months later because of repeat reoccurrence of outbreaks. Unless of course all we want to do is complain restrict the ability to contact trace therefore extend the lockdown then complain when the economy goes down the swanny. The government is to blame for the slow lockdown the british people could be to blame if lockdown is required longer because they didn't embrace contact tracing.

That's not what they are doing in South Korea. They are not asking or requiring the general population to download a smart phone app. 

Instead they are doing two things based around people who have tested positive. First they are using GPS data from peoples phones to contact trace. The data is also published anonymously online and is pushed via text messages to people who've been at the same location. This has become less effective over time due to nuissance and familiarity, and people now ignore the messages. 

Also people who have been infected are required to download a monitoring app. They have to check in with their symptoms regularly and this helps the authorities decide who needs to go hospital. It also reveals if they have broken quarantine. If we had a high level of testing in the UK, I would support such an app. 

Finally, you pick up PPE as not being necessary according to WHO. That is not true as the WHO have issued PPE guidance which the UK are not complying with. PPE is not only worn to protect the wearer but is an important part of infection control. It is shocking that we have run out of disposalable surgical gowns which are used for high risk procedures such as intubation. Doctors could not only pass on coronavirus but other diseases such as hepatitis and AIDS as a result of this. 

I maintain the NHSX app is a gimmick to distract from the disorganisation and chaos that the government has bought to the management of coronavirus. 

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9 hours ago, longgone said:

any network enabled device will have a unique hardware address the name is irrelevant.

I would imagine consistent mac address I.e the hardware address that bounce off each other would be either persons in the same household workplace or block that would be quite easy to work out.

overall it could be quite accurate if receiver strength is considered in the data also.

Mac spoofing?

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10 hours ago, longgone said:

any network enabled device will have a unique hardware address the name is irrelevant.

I would imagine consistent mac address I.e the hardware address that bounce off each other would be either persons in the same household workplace or block that would be quite easy to work out.

overall it could be quite accurate if receiver strength is considered in the data also.

Mac addresses aren't public in the same way as an IMEI is. Ie the govt or my mobile provider didn't take a record of my MAC when they sell my device (it certainly isn't on the box in the same way the IMEI is) 

I'd imagine the system will be limited to identifying people who've installed the app, and granted permission to read the MAC. 

I'm not sure how easy that would be to work out if you were trying to sift and match every MAC I come into contact with... .. My household has 3 android phones, 3 android tablets, 2 laptops, 3 games consoles, 5 wireless headphones, 3 smart watches 5 smart speakers... Of course that assumes they are all on. But that's another problem... Ive usually deliberately switched my Bluetooth off because half the time I go to answer a phone call I realise the audio is coming out of a pair of headphones in another room somewhere, so I only switch it on when I need it. 

Edited by regprentice
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1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Mac spoofing?

yes lets get the bluetooth mac address of a known infected person and spoof it on everyone`s phone.  all though it would need to tie in with the imei which is illegal to change. 

27 minutes ago, regprentice said:

Mac addresses aren't public in the same way as an IMEI is. Ie the govt or my mobile provider didn't take a record of my MAC when they sell my device (it certainly isn't on the box in the same way the IMEI is) 

I'd imagine the system will be limited to identifying people who've installed the app, and granted permission to read the MAC. 

I'm not sure how easy that would be to work out if you were trying to sift and match every MAC I vomeninto contact with... .. My household has 3 android phones, 3 android tablets, 2 laptops, 3 games consoles, 5 wireless headphones, 3 smart watches 5 smart speakers... Of course that assumes they are all on. But that's another problem... Ive usually deliberately switched my Bluetooth off because half the time I go to answer a phone call I realise the audio is coming out of a pair of headphones in another room somewhere, so I only switch it on when I need it. 

we are talking about putting an app that has access to that data and relaying it back to system control for them to interpret location data. they could use Bluetooth data,  Bluetooth has its own mac address too.  maybe the app create s it`s own id . 

the main issue is how accurate proximity is to another phone. 2m gps wont work inside so it must be bluetooth even that is not accurate. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, scepticus said:

Surveillance is a fact of life in any modern society. It's not going away and I'm not sure that snubbing the NHS app is anything more than a token gesture from those suffering cognitive dissonance  on this matter.

Most of the uninformed anti-surveillance rhetoric on here is exactly the type of virtue signalling most on this forum so disdain.

Yes there is surveillance by various tech companies but 1)I can split across multiple companies and 2) there's a limit how much impact they can have on your life.  For example:

1)

If I use 02 network they know where my phone is based on the mast.

If its an Android, Google might know my GPS location (only if its enabled)

If I avoid Gmail and use Yahoo email they know my email contents activity

If I avoid Chrome and use Opera or Firefox they know about my web traffic

So I can manage and diversify my risk of who knows what I do or where I am, so no one company knows everything about me.

2)

How much impact can any one of these companies have on my life?  Even if I didnt want to use that company I can switch to an alternative but they cant restrict my life very much if at all.     The trouble is I cant really not choose HM gov as my government (and no elections dont count) and they can limit my life by acts of law enforced by violence (ie arrest), or restrict my legit movements (eg cancel a passport) and China are already advanced on their social scoring by abusing such technology.

Conclusion: There is no cognitive dissonance is using a tech and not wanting a UK Gov app onto my phone which could be a step towards be abused in the China way.

In any case by the time its all sorted and actually technically working reliably,  Covid will have died away.

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1 hour ago, nightowl said:

In any case by the time its all sorted and actually technically working reliably,  Covid will have died away.

Putting aside the ethical and privacy concerns the practicalities of getting such an app up and running reliably are huge. 

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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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