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The Secret Facebook Group Where Landlords Freak Out About Coronavirus


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There is already (at least) 1 petition out there calling for a 80% rental guarantee to be

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-call-for-80-rental-income-guarantee-for-small-landlords?fbclid=IwAR0XBTETtvY6SCZ-ssHVYuhr80OztX_haXqpYPH7GLJzWNAuuO2M-ianPX4

 The self-interested reasons for signing demonstrate that it's only other landlords where the 'calls' are coming from. 

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8 minutes ago, sammersmith said:

There is already (at least) 1 petition out there calling for a 80% rental guarantee to be

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-call-for-80-rental-income-guarantee-for-small-landlords?fbclid=IwAR0XBTETtvY6SCZ-ssHVYuhr80OztX_haXqpYPH7GLJzWNAuuO2M-ianPX4

 The self-interested reasons for signing demonstrate that it's only other landlords where the 'calls' are coming from. 

Rental income should be underwritten by the govt. How about share dividend income too then

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52182509

So, will this put the industry's rapid expansion in recent years into reverse? The sector certainly has one major problem that means it is likely to suffer more than other parts of the tourism and travel industries such as the airline sector - it has few friends in high places.

Most cruise ships are not registered where they do business, in the USA and Europe, but offshore in places like Panama and the Bahamas.

The industry does that for two reasons - it saves a fortune in tax, and it means that they don't have to follow American or European labour laws. This allow the companies to recruit cheap workers from developing countries, pay them less, and work them harder.

Now, however, avoiding taxes and hiring cheap foreign workers doesn't look so clever - the cruise line industry was specifically not included in the US's business bailout schemes. The industry may be in dire straits, but it is crying in the dark.

And even if governments wanted to help, which they don't appear to, as Prof Muller points out: "It is hard to give a tax break if they pay no taxes".

 

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On 09/04/2020 at 09:39, Red October said:

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/m7qn88/landlords-secret-facebook-group-coronavirus

This is disgusting. Everyone feeling sorry for the tenants. No one mention the hardship of the landlords... We should start a petition for our rights."

Hahahha, poor old landlords, feeling sorry for themselves, when then can sell up and cash in the gainz at any time, walk away with £ks. Unbelievable.

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52182509

So, will this put the industry's rapid expansion in recent years into reverse? The sector certainly has one major problem that means it is likely to suffer more than other parts of the tourism and travel industries such as the airline sector - it has few friends in high places.

Most cruise ships are not registered where they do business, in the USA and Europe, but offshore in places like Panama and the Bahamas.

The industry does that for two reasons - it saves a fortune in tax, and it means that they don't have to follow American or European labour laws. This allow the companies to recruit cheap workers from developing countries, pay them less, and work them harder.

Now, however, avoiding taxes and hiring cheap foreign workers doesn't look so clever - the cruise line industry was specifically not included in the US's business bailout schemes. The industry may be in dire straits, but it is crying in the dark.

And even if governments wanted to help, which they don't appear to, as Prof Muller points out: "It is hard to give a tax break if they pay no taxes".

 

 a floating hotel provides nothing at all. why would they even consider being bail worthy 

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2 hours ago, sammersmith said:

There is already (at least) 1 petition out there calling for a 80% rental guarantee to be

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-call-for-80-rental-income-guarantee-for-small-landlords?fbclid=IwAR0XBTETtvY6SCZ-ssHVYuhr80OztX_haXqpYPH7GLJzWNAuuO2M-ianPX4

 The self-interested reasons for signing demonstrate that it's only other landlords where the 'calls' are coming from. 

Will never happen.

The wages scheme is fo people and landlords can get it for themselves if they are employed by their limited company.

If they file tax returns and actually are employed by their enterprise they may even be able to claim under the self employed scheme (though I do not know about that one)

The CVJRS is very over subscribed and as it snowballs it will only get larger and larger and more furloughed workers = more furloughed workers.

They planned for 10% and now is pushing 30% and growing.  It is already unaffordable so I expect it to actually act as a pressure to open up the economy sooner than if it had not been introduced.

In any scenario I also expect the government to "declare victory" open up and stop the scheme whilst companies are still essentially shafted and they will then have to make staff redundant/pay them up.

 

Edited by Fromage Frais
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Old BBC article, brought to you by the W1 landlord association ( white city)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52182377

When my coz came out of jail, me n his mum sorted him out a nice 300/m flat.

The rest of the building was low paid andor social tenants.

The LL went bust, entire block repos.

Managing agent sent round letter saying nothings changed, pleased carry on paying rent.lat which point everyone bar coz stopped paying rent. HB ones just pocketed it, low paid saved

In the north it's a no brainer. It's too expensive to take a tenant to a court. It takes 12 months. Even if , after spending 2k, the ll wins, theyll be granted £5/m repayment order.

A non paying tenant, keeping the rent is bad for one LL but great for the next LL with an empty property - and theres lots of those. The new LL gets 2-3 months rents up front. The old LL can suck it up.

When there are more rentals than tenants then only the less leveraged survive.

The timing of the virus is sweet - right on the end of the gormless rental mortgage offset for io btl leveraged loons.

Never rains, only pours.

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2 minutes ago, koala_bear said:

And the property market effectively on hold when some landlords needing to sell up for tax reasons, with the economic damage restricting the number of potential buyers and prices when things do resume.

Bank loans on hold too.

Try explaining why your btl payment has bounced.

The play nice banks thing is only for consumer mortgages.

Btl is commercial lending. They can be gloves off, gangster with LL.

Business risk.

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5 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Bank loans on hold too.

Try explaining why your btl payment has bounced.

The play nice banks thing is only for consumer mortgages.

Btl is commercial lending. They can be gloves off, gangster with LL.

Business risk.

Many interesting BTL business models will be uncovered by this.

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Good point.

And I do wonder if rental demand will be particularly affected by the travails of the hospitality industry. So many places were barely surviving as it is. I know lots of people & friends from central Europe who've put down roots here and will prob ride out any storm. However, more recent arrivals might just head home. Less demand, lower rents or voids, etc. 

 

Edited by Voice of Doom
Autocorrect!
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6 hours ago, spyguy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52182509

So, will this put the industry's rapid expansion in recent years into reverse? The sector certainly has one major problem that means it is likely to suffer more than other parts of the tourism and travel industries such as the airline sector - it has few friends in high places.

Most cruise ships are not registered where they do business, in the USA and Europe, but offshore in places like Panama and the Bahamas.

The industry does that for two reasons - it saves a fortune in tax, and it means that they don't have to follow American or European labour laws. This allow the companies to recruit cheap workers from developing countries, pay them less, and work them harder.

Now, however, avoiding taxes and hiring cheap foreign workers doesn't look so clever - the cruise line industry was specifically not included in the US's business bailout schemes. The industry may be in dire straits, but it is crying in the dark.

And even if governments wanted to help, which they don't appear to, as Prof Muller points out: "It is hard to give a tax break if they pay no taxes".

 

Most cruise ship employees are working 'offshore' so paying no tax

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38 minutes ago, Orb said:

That's behind a paywall. What's the gist of it?

In the capital potential buy to let investors are circling says Camilla Dell at London managing partner at London buying agency Black Brick etc etc - they are just waiting for buying restrictions to end while they swoop in to buy property on the cheap with their spare cash.

And of course with price falls buy to let yields will increase.

Also Gary Hall head of lettings at Knight Frank is bullish - he predicts house prices in London will fall by only 3 per cent in 2020 and rents in the capital will stay constant. He does not anticipate that rental supply will outstrip demand. Not sure how he has derived at those estimates of course - it doesn't say!

Yes - you get the gist. Ramping from independent experts (there always has to be a Camilla involved!) - well people who make their living from selling and renting out homes anyway and who of course need to talk up the market.

Edited by MARTINX9
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7 hours ago, winkie said:

Nobody is forced to become a landlord.....plenty are forced to have to rent.?

Its pretty disgusting.  But I think it's ultimately a systematic problem albeit defended by a set of people with warped sense of entitlement. Those pro-Landlord votes, and the filibustering for one thing...

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1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

In the capital potential buy to let investors are circling says Camilla Dell at London managing partner at London buying agency Black Brick etc etc - they are just waiting for buying restrictions to end while they swoop in to buy property on the cheap with their spare cash.

 

Camilla Dell's got form:

 

https://www.nationalhomebuyers.co.uk/news-articles/london-property-market-may-benefit-trump-wins-us-election/

 

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I don't think any of the articles above take into account factors such as "work from home" revolution that'll certainly take some of the demand out of your usual "city" rentals.  Or the outcome of furlough'd employees (who may not return to original roles, or possibly reduced salaries with it).  

So many things are quite frankly in the air right now.

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1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

In the capital potential buy to let investors are circling says Camilla Dell at London managing partner at London buying agency Black Brick etc etc - they are just waiting for buying restrictions to end while they swoop in to buy property on the cheap with their spare cash.

And of course with price falls buy to let yields will increase.

Also Gary Hall head of lettings at Knight Frank is bullish - he predicts house prices in London will fall by only 3 per cent in 2020 and rents in the capital will stay constant. He does not anticipate that rental supply will outstrip demand. Not sure how he has derived at those estimates of course - it doesn't say!

Yes - you get the gist. Ramping from independent experts (there always has to be a Camilla involved!) - well people who make their living from selling and renting out homes anyway and who of course need to talk up the market.

Yes, the media should always expect that a "market commentator" reveal the workings, expectations, calculations that underlie their crystal ball gazing. They should otherwise not appear in "quality" media.

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  • 417 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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