Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Will more people become interested in "private money"?


Recommended Posts

(don't want this to turn into a gold vs bitcoin debate)

 

Without going into the rights or wrongs, we are seeing politician making moves that we know will lead to big debasements of national currencies in the next few years.

 

Various "private" currencies exist that are outside government control (gold, bitcoin etc.)

 

Until now, these have been discussed more in the alternative media.

 

Will the Corona virus lead to private currencies going more mainstream?

 

I'm not saying they will overtake national currencies, but even if it triggered an interest in 10 or 20% of people, it would be massive.

Edited by reddog
Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost the opposite - yes there will be debasement, but to help those in need in the crisis at the expense of those not in need.  It's Robin Hood debasement.

In a "hard money" world that avenue of support wouldn't be open to governments, they'd have to do it via some sort of massive tax rise that's then re-distributed.  So much slower.

The only people interested in them would be "the rich" who "Robin Hood" is trying to rob, who want to hide their wealth from being robbed, rather than the mainstream.

 

("the rich" and "Robin Hood" deliberately in inverted commas, since many I'm sure may disagree with my use of those phrases)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, scottbeard said:

Almost the opposite - yes there will be debasement, but to help those in need in the crisis at the expense of those not in need.  It's Robin Hood debasement.

In a "hard money" world that avenue of support wouldn't be open to governments, they'd have to do it via some sort of massive tax rise that's then re-distributed.  So much slower.

The only people interested in them would be "the rich" who "Robin Hood" is trying to rob, who want to hide their wealth from being robbed, rather than the mainstream.

 

("the rich" and "Robin Hood" deliberately in inverted commas, since many I'm sure may disagree with my use of those phrases)

 

I actually asked what will happen, rather than your opinion on what should happen morally.   In any case it is actually the middle class that are holding society together that will be most affected.  Richard Branson doesn't keep all his savings in £ in the local branch of Nationwide.

 

I actually think if the rich twig on to this then it will trickle down, like people seeing a famous person wearing Prada, and wanting to wear it themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, reddog said:

(don't want this to turn into a gold vs bitcoin debate)

Without going into the rights or wrongs, we are seeing politician making moves that we know will lead to big debasements of national currencies in the next few years.

Various "private" currencies exist that are outside government control (gold, bitcoin etc.)

Until now, these have been discussed more in the alternative media.

Will the Corona virus lead to private currencies going more mainstream?

 

When you said Private, for a minute I thought you meant Privacy.   Privacy Based Crypto does seem to be getting more popular, things like Monero and Bitcoin Incognito. Guess people look to keep some assets and transactions secret. But not so easy converting to real currency whilst retaining privacy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, reddog said:

I actually asked what will happen, rather than your opinion on what should happen morally.   In any case it is actually the middle class that are holding society together that will be most affected.  Richard Branson doesn't keep all his savings in £ in the local branch of Nationwide.

 

I actually think if the rich twig on to this then it will trickle down, like people seeing a famous person wearing Prada, and wanting to wear it themselves.

OK I will be clearer then:

No,  it won’t happen

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, reddog said:

I actually asked what will happen, rather than your opinion on what should happen morally.   In any case it is actually the middle class that are holding society together that will be most affected.  Richard Branson doesn't keep all his savings in £ in the local branch of Nationwide.

 

I actually think if the rich twig on to this then it will trickle down, like people seeing a famous person wearing Prada, and wanting to wear it themselves.

Speak for yourself, more likely avoid wearing brand names, a famous person is a matter of opinion......greater risk in gold/PM and crypto than even fiat, and holding that is still a risk.;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

When you said Private, for a minute I thought you meant Privacy.   Privacy Based Crypto does seem to be getting more popular, things like Monero and Bitcoin Incognito. Guess people look to keep some assets and transactions secret. But not so easy converting to real currency whilst retaining privacy. 

Wasn't really sure what to call it, maybe "none government money"

 

I guess people might start taking privacy more seriously, especially if someone comes up with the idea that you have to pay a one off community tax of 10% on all your assets net worth in order to fight Corona virus - or some such thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no requirement or demand for money to be anything other than a medium of exchange

you don’t want the medium of exchange to store value, you want it to be the water that flows through the system

the way it should work is that wages goes mostly into real value stores and some left in fiat currency for spending (or spent straight away)

I would say that the £ is doing a great job. It’s doing exactly what’s it’s supposed to do the meet the qualities of ‘good spending money’ (not being a good store of value) 

if the spending money goes up in value people don’t spend, it doesn’t work. 

The real question you should be asking is ‘what is the best way to protect my life’s earning/value’

and the answer to that is a little trickier. 

best way currently is via a permanent portfolio approach (25% gold, 25% long dated bonds/gilts, 25% shares, 25% cash adjusted once every 2 years to rebalance back to those percentages) 

the problem comes with the ‘gold’ side of that strategy, as gold should be a superior value store, but technology has overtaken gold, people no longer take physical delivery, so the same bar of gold is sold several times over, and on top of that ‘paper gold’ is used by the powers that be to drive the price down on the markets to help reduce a sense of panic in stocks, and keep people’s faith in our monetary system

there is no value discovery of real gold

gold is suppressed in value, manipulated down. 

So then you are stuffed right? 

well yes, you just have to hope that having you investments in several sectors will on balance work out OK and accept that actually yes, under our current system you are not allowed to save the value of your earnings, instead you can only retain a fraction of the value you created over your life, something like 5-10%
 

in the Middle Ages the church was the all powerful entities, and you can see that reflected in the biggest grandest buildings of the time, huge symbols of power, endless man-hours to build. 

modern day ALL the power is with the bankers, who these days have the largest buildings, huge symbols of power. it’s where a lot of society finds it value sucked into. Right into bankers pockets, governments are forced to do policies that please the banking establishment, it’s corrupt immoral and greedy. 

this could all be solved and corrected if people took physical delivery of gold. but that seems unlikely, and even then, like in previous instances in history it can be confiscated 

bitcoin is our only hope to overthrow the banks, to return society to choosing its own destiny, it allows people to be more free, it prevents massive house prices, and wasted lives paying a mortgage so some banker can have an extra helicopter 

bitcoin is young, it’s a vote for change, but more than anything it’s gold 2.0 it’s a value store which is in a real free market, paper bitcoin doesn’t work as bitcoin unlike gold has an open ledger, markets can’t be moved with fake bitcoin, you either have it (and can prove it) or you don’t, and it’s obvious. 

once bitcoin is established as a long standing value store, then houses will stop being value stores, zombie companies will go bust, unpayable pensions (boomers promising themselves riches) will be cancelled and being young will be hopeful again, the economy will boom after all the dead wood is cleared

there is a huge need to keep the economic system in check with a value store we have not had that for 50-100 years, and look at the state of the world? Where houses are the only value store, when the economy is suffocated as everyone has to pay soo much to our boomer banker overlords, where youth suicides are record highs, where so much is thrown towards the bankers profits that hospitals don’t have enough beds 

I’m not saying put your life savings into bitcoin. I’m saying have a little bit as a vote for change. As you work to pay rent, or a huge mortgage, have a bit of self respect and at least you know you did something, and all those wasted years of labouring and lost time with family and friends, know that you didn’t just let them suck the blood from you willingly, support bitcoin 

it will grow and keep the banks in check, it will force them back into being a small industry, they will have massive job losses, it would allow the real economy to flourish without endless funds being fed to evil greedy bankers. 

There is some new treatments for diseases where they introduce a new disease to fight the former, bitcoin will grow like cancer and wipe out the cancerous banking sector which is stopping you from breathing or walking or enjoying life, bitcoin will grow, it will come.

it might take 100 years but it’s not going anywhere. it may benefit our children but not us. 

for me it’s a matter of pride. I don’t want to be 65 half dead, mumbling about retirement as a wreak with all my life energy spent toiling so some banker could have a fresh Range Rover each year, with me paying a mortgage, and trying to put together a pension.

have some pride, have some self respect, do something.   

Edited by jiltedjen
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, scottbeard said:

Almost the opposite - yes there will be debasement, but to help those in need in the crisis at the expense of those not in need.  It's Robin Hood debasement.

In a "hard money" world that avenue of support wouldn't be open to governments, they'd have to do it via some sort of massive tax rise that's then re-distributed.  So much slower.

The only people interested in them would be "the rich" who "Robin Hood" is trying to rob, who want to hide their wealth from being robbed, rather than the mainstream.

 

("the rich" and "Robin Hood" deliberately in inverted commas, since many I'm sure may disagree with my use of those phrases)

 

I see where you're coming from, but this is a false dichotomy that will (hopefully) be expunged by this crisis.

Fiat seems to work well for most people as a transactional and valuation tool. It suspect it will continue to be created, lent and borrowed ad infinitum.  It is, however, a lousy savings vehicle. Savers are the ones who choose what the primary store of values are. They vote with their feet and debtors have no say in the matter.

If savers (from reserve managers at CBs and SWFs to you and I) change their preferences, relative valuations of certain assets will change dramatically.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For a while I thought key workers were going to clean up. It looked like they would be the only people making money while the debt bubble burst around us. That would have meant the people producing things and keeping society together would have been able to pick up assets for pennies on the pound. Seemed like a fair outcome to me.

Instead key workers will be the worst off of all. They will be grafting for pennies while the majority sit at home and watch TV. The Bank of England's printing press will ensure massive wealth destruction.

As I see it this is going to be a really bad year for food production. With African Swine Flu, a bad harvest in USA, locusts eating half of Pakistan's crops, tractor and harvester parts not available, devastation of crops in Africa and China having really low harvest this year I think food prices are going to the moon. Our currency is going to the floor. People will be hungry.

Farmers and food producers are going to be where the money is. They will want to have some way to keep their wealth secure. So farmers and the Gold Bugs are going to come out on top. Either that or we end up like North Korea.

Typing this made me feel mental. We are living in really strange times.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, reddog said:

(don't want this to turn into a gold vs bitcoin debate)

 

Without going into the rights or wrongs, we are seeing politician making moves that we know will lead to big debasements of national currencies in the next few years.

 

Various "private" currencies exist that are outside government control (gold, bitcoin etc.)

 

Until now, these have been discussed more in the alternative media.

 

Will the Corona virus lead to private currencies going more mainstream?

 

I'm not saying they will overtake national currencies, but even if it triggered an interest in 10 or 20% of people, it would be massive.

Rumours are Trump is closing the USA markets from Monday morning. That will leave other markets open the only place to sell into cash, once they close too to stem the tide of selling, where will that money find a home in a market that is still trading?  All the weak hands in Bitcoin have sold out the last few weeks, certainly since last summer.

Could see a rush to get into Bitcoin and physical precious metals, as paper Gold and Silver markets will be closed, but with already very limited supply currently of physical precious metals, that leaves pretty much one "digital" trading asset class. Cryptocurrency.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, markyh said:

 

Could see a rush to get into Bitcoin and physical precious metals, as paper Gold and Silver markets will be closed, but with already very limited supply currently of physical precious metals, that leaves pretty much one "digital" trading asset class. Cryptocurrency.

Things could get quite interesting if the gold market closes.

 

Currently most of the big dealers seem to have gone into a state where you can "buy and lock in" your price, they will then deliver at an unspecified point in the future, you can only do this on certain coins like Sovereigns and Britannias, and also quite large bars.  They are also selling high margin Silver collectables.

 

However that is the state in the week, this weekend Bullion By Post (which is the largest), and some other dealers have paused trading  until Monday (even though normally you would be able to buy able weekend with the price being recalculated).

 

I am not sure how gold is valued at weekends, on Bloomberg Friday's close is just listed all weekend, but the Gold dealers can value their products on a minute by minute basis.  Currencies trade all weekend, which is an important part of valuing gold.

 

Would be interesting if gold dealers were not even able to do the pre-order stuff that they are currently doing.  Physical prices could go completely bananas then, with no one able to give physical coin a value.  We would be in new territory, and maybe some shadow market outside the established system would start (which would be fantastic).

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Biggus said:

Farmers and food producers are going to be where the money is. They will want to have some way to keep their wealth secure. So farmers and the Gold Bugs are going to come out on top.

Same thing happened in the Weimar Republic.

23 hours ago, Biggus said:

Either that or we end up like North Korea.

Just like one of the most hard left regimes ever, National Socialist Germany.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.