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The Dark Secret Behind The Property Boom

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The Independent Commentary 06.05.2006

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnist...ticle343415.ece

It's a bit lefty and touchy-feely and is dealing rather with social housing issues but it does highlight some interesting perspectives on NuLab's distortion-making policies within the market. Record numbers of families with 'no-fixed-abode' living in B&B accomodation, the government having earlier promised in a pre-election manifesto to rectify the problems of social and affordable housing for these groups by 2010. Hummm, haven't started yet and 4 years to go. Gordon Brown managing the finances, Prescott managing the land, NuLab spin machine relying on promises of ever-increasing HPI for votes. Not much hope for this group of people then.

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Whats the dark secret about children sleeping in bedrooms?

Where would you like them to sleep?

Hi,

I don't know. You'll have to ask Johann Hari. Wow! You read the article very quickly, I must say.

Edited by boom_and_bust

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Hi,

I don't know. You'll have to ask Johann Hari. Wow! You read the article very quickly, I must say.

Only read your title - couldn't be bothered with the rest if that's the level of intelligence shown.

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Only read your title - couldn't be bothered with the rest if that's the level of intelligence shown.

Hi,

Now just a minute! That sir, is a tad ignorant if ....... oh wait a minute. Ignorant Steve. I get it now.

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The Independent Commentary 06.05.2006

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnist...ticle343415.ece

It's a bit lefty and touchy-feely and is dealing rather with social housing issues but it does highlight some interesting perspectives on NuLab's distortion-making policies within the market. Record numbers of families with 'no-fixed-abode' living in B&B accomodation, the government having earlier promised in a pre-election manifesto to rectify the problems of social and affordable housing for these groups by 2010. Hummm, haven't started yet and 4 years to go. Gordon Brown managing the finances, Prescott managing the land, NuLab spin machine relying on promises of ever-increasing HPI for votes. Not much hope for this group of people then.

iT isn't just these groups that are suffering from overcrowding either.

Decent sized homes aren't available for graduates who have families either.

It is evidence for me that this country is POOR and just getting worse.

Potential Ftb living in a two bed flat with husband and two daughters.

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iT isn't just these groups that are suffering from overcrowding either.

Decent sized homes aren't available for graduates who have families either.

It is evidence for me that this country is POOR and just getting worse.

Potential Ftb living in a two bed flat with husband and two daughters.

Yes, and all the rubbish new-build flats are just skewing the market further as opportunities to build decent family homes are passed up in favour of a quick buck. Personally I'm buying because I am just able to, and would rather risk a loss than keep on with my daughter having to sleep in the front room of a one-bed as at present - I'm lucky I can do that though it will be hard, and I'm sure there are many FTBs in these kinds of situations who either can't buy or are being forced to consider overstretching themselves because of the idiocy of the BTL investors - it makes me angry when I see people crowing about their "portfolios" knowing the genuine grief that their collective actions are causing.

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Personally I'm buying because I am just able to, and would rather risk a loss than keep on with my daughter having to sleep in the front room of a one-bed as at present

How is it cheaper for you to buy than rent?

Surely one of the reasons none of us are buying is because we can (and some of us need to) rent bigger properties for less per month.

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Whats the dark secret about children sleeping in bedrooms?

Where would you like them to sleep?

When you get children sleeping in the same bedroom as their parents, or whole families in single bedrooms. Just the usual sort of overcrowding.

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When you get children sleeping in the same bedroom as their parents, or whole families in single bedrooms. Just the usual sort of overcrowding.

All people have to do is work 10 to room for 5-10 years and retire to a huge house in poland. Probably better weather than here as well. I'm sure it will take the 'ex-pats' no longer than a couple of years to ****** up the whole culture of eastern europe :)

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Whats the dark secret about children sleeping in bedrooms?

Where would you like them to sleep?

I presume that what is meant is that children are sleeping in their parents bedrooms as opposed

to having their own bedrooms. God we are going back to pre-war conditions!

This government has a lot :( to answer for !

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The Independent Commentary 06.05.2006

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnist...ticle343415.ece

It's a bit lefty and touchy-feely and is dealing rather with social housing issues but it does highlight some interesting perspectives on NuLab's distortion-making policies within the market. Record numbers of families with 'no-fixed-abode' living in B&B accomodation, the government having earlier promised in a pre-election manifesto to rectify the problems of social and affordable housing for these groups by 2010. Hummm, haven't started yet and 4 years to go. Gordon Brown managing the finances, Prescott managing the land, NuLab spin machine relying on promises of ever-increasing HPI for votes. Not much hope for this group of people then.

This is the price a society pays when a government puts ideology above common sense. Gordon Brown is creating equality by spreading poverty.

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How is it cheaper for you to buy than rent?

Surely one of the reasons none of us are buying is because we can (and some of us need to) rent bigger properties for less per month.

Long story, but the short answer is that for my circumstances that doesn't quite hold - I could rent what I need slightly more cheaply than buying, but it's not a huge difference and for me in my very specific set of circumstances I believe it makes more sense to buy, though that doesn't stop me being angry at the price I have to pay and at the increased financial risks I'm exposed to.

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Yes, and all the rubbish new-build flats are just skewing the market further as opportunities to build decent family homes are passed up in favour of a quick buck. Personally I'm buying because I am just able to, and would rather risk a loss than keep on with my daughter having to sleep in the front room of a one-bed as at present - I'm lucky I can do that though it will be hard, and I'm sure there are many FTBs in these kinds of situations who either can't buy or are being forced to consider overstretching themselves because of the idiocy of the BTL investors - it makes me angry when I see people crowing about their "portfolios" knowing the genuine grief that their collective actions are causing.

Well Said !

This government should be shamed of itself!

I am not expert on politics but this is surely not the sort of thing you would ahve normally

expected under a LABOUR government! :(

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Well Said !

This government should be shamed of itself!

I am not expert on politics but this is surely not the sort of thing you would ahve normally

expected under a LABOUR government! :(

Quite. I've written before about this, but the Attlee government (1945-50) built pretty good quality housing to replace that damaged in the war, but the Tories won the 1950 election by promising more housing, built more quickly - which led dirctly to the crap tower blocks etc built in the 1950s and 1960s. Since then the Thatcher government also slashed the room sizes that were allowable in new building to a disgraceful level. but this government has done nothing to reverse that, and because they are pandering to vested interests, have focussed on the idea of "affordable housing" by which they mean cheap tat - rather than focussing on decent building standards. We have poor quality housing stock in this country and they allowing this to get worse rather than better, which is very disappointing for a supposedly Labour govt. Bad housing tends to last for generations, so it would make a huge difference if we started building decent housing instead of allowing all this opportunism to flourish without regulation.

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Well Said !

This government should be shamed of itself!

I am not expert on politics but this is surely not the sort of thing you would ahve normally

expected under a LABOUR government! :(

Labour couldn't give a toss.

The only thing NL are interested in is getting people into/back to work and paying taxes.

As a three year old sleeping on a kitchen floor is unlikely to do either of these then that three year old will have to wait another thirteen years (until it is sixteen) before anyone cares about it's housing situation.

Three year olds don't vote either.

People in temporary accomodation are unlikely to vote because they are unlikely to be registered.

NL should be hanging their heads in shame.

Economic Miracle my @rse.

NL are no different than any other party...the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

Think about it....

In the grand scheme of things how much would it actually cost to build some new social housing?

How much would it cost to take over the rows of empty (perfectly good) victorian terrace houses on the edge of many citites and covert them back into habitable homes?

It is actually considered neglect for a parent not to provide suitable housing for their child.

It is against the law for a parent not to provide a suitable education for their child

It is neglect for a parent not to seek and access suitable medical care for their child.

Personally I would make the failure of local authroities/LEA's and Trusts to provide suitable housing, education and medical care for any child a form of abuse and neglect within the law.

Too many 'do gooding' social workers obsessed with child abuse (Rochadle/Orkney/Cleveland/North Wales) who conveniently ignore the structural abuse of children every day.

My very strong views...I expect the usual ...they shoud all get off their @rses and work for a living.

BUT I actually have some compasion for my fellow human being.

Tonigh some toddler will be sleeping on a kitchen floor in a bedsit so small that they risk pulling over pans of hot water, have no room to play and no space for toys.

A teenager will be sharing a bedsit with their parents and siblings with no place to do homework (that will be detention tomorrow then just to add to the misery), no social life and no privacy.

In our society there is no excuse....there just isn't.

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There’s still a huge problem among the middle class, at least the older boomer middle class about the state of Britain’s poor. In real terms, the lot of the poor since the late sixties - job quality, housing quality, health quality, diet quality, access to green unpolluted spaces. You name it. It’s got worse.

Yet, there’s still this strange idea that the poorest all live in council houses. Not true - the Council-housed poor are the lucky ones other struggle to pay private rents or live in temporary accommodation. There’s also some strange idea that because the middle classess have enjoyed a consumerist orgy over the last couple of decades (even if much of the ‘decline in life quality’ applies to them too) that somehow the poor have too - the kid sitting in a B&B hunched over his old-model Cash Converters Gameboy is supposedly a picture of the success of the current free-market totalitarianism.

My mum used to teach in ‘special status’ school in a seriously deprived area in the 70s. Poor kids come from council homes, they had bedrooms, they had a little space to move about in, there were spaces to explore that weren’t shopping malls or Tescos megastores. They didn’t live in B&Bs, shared homes, temporary accommodation as under Thatcher-Blairism. Occasionally my mum will bump into a kid she used to teach, many of who have grown up into literate, happy, even successful, people. Would it have happened if they’d had no space to do their schoolwork, in poor housing like a rat in a cage?

But it’s not just the low-waged and unemployed who are worse off than ever. The sheer brutality of living costs caused by massive inflation in the money supply has made victims of less affluent sections of the middle class to the extent that they are worse off in many regards than the ‘poor’ of more enlightened times. These are the ‘try at school, go to college, work hard, obey the law’ folks.

I heard a 40-something chap boasting that he’d done well considering he’d grown up on a council estate and proudly stated that ice used to appear on the inside of the windows to illustrate the point. Of course, anyone in an exposed area without doubled glazing and good heating would have experienced this same phenonemon - I used to find it satisfying to pull ice off the windows. There was nothing ‘poor’ about him. Surely he was better off than many of today’s middle-class parents with a huge mortgage and couple of kids in a 10’ wide two-up, two-down built for the poorest Victorian factory worker?

I read an article about some UK hip-hop artist who’d had some success and had recorded stuff in his ‘bedroom studio’. Again, the council estate was the proud badge of poverty. I thought, ‘yeah, but there you are in one of the world’s most vibrant (and pricey) cities, your parents paying a rent a fraction of those who suffer private rent in your bedroom studio making hip hop?’ Where’s the poverty? Is the B&B kid ever going to enjoy the same? Is a middle-of-the-road middle class kid who’s Dad isn’t an oil magnate?

Half a million families are now in the kind of poverty we haven’t seen since the fifties and I’d say much of the regression has occurred in the last five or six years, as more and more people cannot afford market rates for housing - to rent or buy - and start looking towards social housing that doesn’t even cover the existing need. Ironically, NuLab have spent loads, often very badly, on the health service and education while promoting extreme Thatcherite housing policies which can only serve to damage the nation’s health and educational development.

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You do have to question the suitability of these people as parents when they can't even accommodate their kids properly. It's another of those things where people are unwilling or unable to take responsibility for their own actions, and someone else is obliged to pick up the bill.

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Well, piltdown, with three degrees, three jobs, good employment record, and half-decent deposit between us we couldn't accomodate any kids in anything other than a cramped hole.

I reckon we should get forcibily sterilised by the NuLabour Police State and record of this put on our ID cards.

Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.

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Well, piltdown, with three degrees, three jobs, good employment record, and half-decent deposit between us we couldn't accomodate any kids in anything other than a cramped hole.

I reckon we should get forcibily sterilised by the NuLabour Police State and record of this put on our ID cards.

Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.

What part of the country is it?

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You do have to question the suitability of these people as parents when they can't even accommodate their kids properly. It's another of those things where people are unwilling or unable to take responsibility for their own actions, and someone else is obliged to pick up the bill.

On the other hand you do have to question how, in a mordern society, with both parents working, families have to make a choice between kids or buying a house. You also have to question why, when families do choose to have kids it puts them at the bottom of the economic pile at a time when they need financial support and housing the most. Maybe you could also question why working families with children are cramped in tiny flats while older couples happily rattle around in 5 bed houses refusing to sell for anything below half a million pounds because of course "these youngsters are all rolling in money, with their Ipods etc" (not)

People can happily afford to provide housing for their children...when the price has not been ramped up out of the reach of most FTB's by reckless lending and wild speculation.

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You do have to question the suitability of these people as parents when they can't even accommodate their kids properly. It's another of those things where people are unwilling or unable to take responsibility for their own actions, and someone else is obliged to pick up the bill.

Rather than getting personally offended by this unkind and inconsiderate comment, I'll just say that everyone's lives are complicated in different ways, and in the current economic climate there are bound to be a lot of parents working extremely hard just to tread water. It's always been expensive to have a child, but at this stage of the ecnomic cycle, accomodation space has become especially overpriced. You can cope and look after your child well in quite cramped accomodation, but it is hard sometimes as I'm sure some of those with children here with confirm. We all make our decisions and then try to make them work and it's rarely helpful to be this judgmental, especially without knowing the full details.

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I must admit when I first started reading this article my immediate reaction was why are these people having so many children when they clearly don't have the space? But when I got to the bit where the primary school head mistress said "there was one family where the child was absolutely delighted when he got a bed. He went telling everyone. he didn't realise that everyone else has a bed", it broke my heart. I don't think you can ever judge people until you know more about how they came into those circumstances. Even if the parents didn't make the best life choices it's not the fault of the children.

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You do have to question the suitability of these people as parents when they can't even accommodate their kids properly. It's another of those things where people are unwilling or unable to take responsibility for their own actions, and someone else is obliged to pick up the bill.

Well I can't "accommodate my kids properly" yet I am deemed to be reasonably successful, have a a degree and professional qualification, earn more / about the same as the London average (what ever that is) and have a decent deposit. What is your point?

BTW, we chose to have children rather than bricks and mortar. Should it really have come to that?

2005, Magpie, & Dipsy good posts.

Edited by Buffer Bear

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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