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Corona Virus Business Wage Relief


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So the government are going to pay 80% of the wages of people "not working" at some point soon.

Does anyone have any further idea who will be administering this and how to apply etc?

 

I would imagine companies will now be laying off staff left right and centre!

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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses

 

You will need to:

  • designate affected employees as ‘furloughed workers,’ and notify your employees of this change - changing the status of employees remains subject to existing employment law and, depending on the employment contract, may be subject to negotiation
  • submit information to HMRC about the employees that have been furloughed and their earnings through a new online portal (HMRC will set out further details on the information required)

HMRC will reimburse 80% of furloughed workers wage costs, up to a cap of £2,500 per month. HMRC are working urgently to set up a system for reimbursement. Existing systems are not set up to facilitate payments to employers.

If your business needs short term cash flow support, you may be eligible for a Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan.

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45 minutes ago, regprentice said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses

 

You will need to:

  • designate affected employees as ‘furloughed workers,’ and notify your employees of this change - changing the status of employees remains subject to existing employment law and, depending on the employment contract, may be subject to negotiation
  • submit information to HMRC about the employees that have been furloughed and their earnings through a new online portal (HMRC will set out further details on the information required)

HMRC will reimburse 80% of furloughed workers wage costs, up to a cap of £2,500 per month. HMRC are working urgently to set up a system for reimbursement. Existing systems are not set up to facilitate payments to employers.

If your business needs short term cash flow support, you may be eligible for a Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan.

Ha...no wonder they deferred the IR35 changes for a year. I would give it evens that this will be deferred again next year.

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2 minutes ago, Patfig said:

Errrrr no it will be a total pain in the proverbial

It was a genuine question

Will HMRC really not have thought that this is gameable? Will there be supplementary questions? Are we basically adopting Greek employment laws?

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2 minutes ago, Si1 said:

It was a genuine question

Will HMRC really not have thought that this is gameable? Will there be supplementary questions? Are we basically adopting Greek employment laws?

I think it may be all Greek

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2 hours ago, Patfig said:

So the government are going to pay 80% of the wages of people "not working" at some point soon.

Does anyone have any further idea who will be administering this and how to apply etc?

 

I would imagine companies will now be laying off staff left right and centre!

It's either being administered by a wizard or a magician but both have been reluctant to give the Tories access to the magic money tree.

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10 hours ago, longgone said:

Are they expecting the rest of the population to live on jsa if they lost their jobs before the cut off date ??

Or Is something else coming ?

Yes, it looks like if you were already on benefits, or if you were self employed, then it's universal credit for you. 

10 hours ago, Si1 said:

It was a genuine question

Will HMRC really not have thought that this is gameable? Will there be supplementary questions? Are we basically adopting Greek employment laws?

I don't think they have a clue what they will do. I doubt hmrc knew they would be doing this before Thursday night. The text on the .Gov page says they are working to produce a payment solution..... It'll be all hands to the pumps to get it to physically work, then they will start thinking about the rules... 

Wednesday and Thursday ministers have been begging employers not to fire people until they've heard the govts scheme on Friday - as a result of this some employers will be expecting to access cash at 9am on Monday. If HMRC uses the existing paye structure for even part of this then payments could be a month and 20 days in arrears. 

The only govt body with the capability to make these kinds of bulk payments is DWP. In normal times it would take 2 years for two govt departments to agree this kind of interaction between them. Obviously they will pull their fingers out but I think its weeks away... Not days away. 

I'm also confused by the reference to this as a 'grant'... It doesn't sound like a weeks wages at a time, but a larger longer period payment applied for in retrospect. 

Edited by regprentice
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11 hours ago, Si1 said:

It was a genuine question

Will HMRC really not have thought that this is gameable? Will there be supplementary questions? Are we basically adopting Greek employment laws?

Im not sure.

*Everything* PAYE is recorded.

They oughtto be able to automate the system to check against the last months pay.

 

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38 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Im not sure.

*Everything* PAYE is recorded.

They oughtto be able to automate the system to check against the last months pay.

 

They will have problems though as there will have been hundreds or thousands of p45s sent in over the last week which, hopefully, employers will want to reverse. 

Also there are new 'corona virus' jobs coming up in some sectors (amazon claim 100k, co-op claim 16.5k) so you need to accept new registrations. How do you distinguish between fraudulent new registration and a genuine registration. 

Edited by regprentice
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The more I think about it, the more insane I think this is. First up, it is going to be gamed to smithereens by just about every company in the country. If I had any employees I would immediately designate all of my staff "furloughed". But what even is a "furloughed" worker? Do they still work or is it as the name implies (not actively working)? If so, how do they tell? What if you've got no income coming in but need your staff to keep things running? You can easily imagine a company that would close up out of caution with no money coming in, but needs to keep staff on hand if they do try and ride it out. Are they eligible? And then the biggest issue of all being the complete abandonment of the self employed, not all of whom are self employed nail technicians on 16 hours a week (and even some of them actually used to make a living). UBI would have been so much easier and fairer. This is going to sow division within the country at a time when we could do without it.

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11 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

The more I think about it, the more insane I think this is. First up, it is going to be gamed to smithereens by just about every company in the country. If I had any employees I would immediately designate all of my staff "furloughed". But what even is a "furloughed" worker? Do they still work or is it as the name implies (not actively working)? If so, how do they tell? What if you've got no income coming in but need your staff to keep things running? You can easily imagine a company that would close up out of caution with no money coming in, but needs to keep staff on hand if they do try and ride it out. Are they eligible? And then the biggest issue of all being the complete abandonment of the self employed, not all of whom are self employed nail technicians on 16 hours a week (and even some of them actually used to make a living). UBI would have been so much easier and fairer. This is going to sow division within the country at a time when we could do without it.

Furloughed workers have to stay home. 

There was a union rep on the radio this morning saying that a company with 10 staff which needed to cut its wage bill in half might have laid off 5 staff or perhaps kept all staff on half time, therefore earning half wages... But under the new scheme they would likely furlough 5 workers, paying them their wage to stay at home, and continue to employ another 5 working on the same wage. 

How do you fairly choose which staff you pay their full wage to sit at home while the others are working hard, putting themselves at risk, struggling to get care for their kids etc. 

You have to advise your employee they've been furloughed, so in theory that stops the system being gamed as if the employee knows they are being paid to stay home then presumably they will refuse to physically work. 

Edited by regprentice
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I'm thinking tax credits when the civil servants were overwhelmed with the work and its complication followed by the inevitable albanian claims said to have cost tens of millions £.

If you're spending hundreds of billions I suppose it doesn't much matter.

Either that or once the dosh starts to flow the scheme may fall some way short of the initial puff piece both in terms of £ and duration.

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7 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said:

The more I think about it, the more insane I think this is. First up, it is going to be gamed to smithereens by just about every company in the country. If I had any employees I would immediately designate all of my staff "furloughed". But what even is a "furloughed" worker? Do they still work or is it as the name implies (not actively working)? If so, how do they tell? What if you've got no income coming in but need your staff to keep things running? You can easily imagine a company that would close up out of caution with no money coming in, but needs to keep staff on hand if they do try and ride it out. Are they eligible? And then the biggest issue of all being the complete abandonment of the self employed, not all of whom are self employed nail technicians on 16 hours a week (and even some of them actually used to make a living). UBI would have been so much easier and fairer. This is going to sow division within the country at a time when we could do without it.

My understanding of furloughed is still employed but sent home as no or minimal work to do but happy to be corrected on this.

I cant see this being able to be administered at all and it will all turn to a big pile of crap. Next week will be interesting.

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Dont forget you wont be untitled to UC if you have any savings,personally not working at the moment

so have no income,but could be wiped out by the stock market,although i still expect to have more than

£8000-£16000,but still have to pay full council tax etc.

          

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6 minutes ago, Ghostly said:

Quite easy to administer.  Companies pay their workers through payroll as normal at the 80% rate, claim back money from HMRC.

I think companies are expected to pay 100% of the salary and claim back 80% - i.e. they need to cough up 20%, so there may still be some companies that decide to let staff go. 

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2 hours ago, regprentice said:

Yes, it looks like if you were already on benefits, or if you were self employed, then it's universal credit for you. 

 

Never claimed tried before told I could not as had over 16k

These kunts should just bring in a universal income

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1 hour ago, mattyboy1973 said:

I think companies are expected to pay 100% of the salary and claim back 80% - i.e. they need to cough up 20%, so there may still be some companies that decide to let staff go. 

Yes this is right. It might be calculated on 114% of the salary if it includes employers national insurance - it just says 'employment costs'. 

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