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Lift off

White House expresses support for making immediate cash payments to Americans as part of coronavirus stimulus package

 

Don't think we had this even at the height of  GFC 2008. The much touted helicopter has arrived. Dollar soars at the news. 

 

Edit: I recall Japan trying something similar but not on this scale.

 

 

Edited by thirdwave
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6 minutes ago, HowMuch! said:

this is to stop the people kicking off, in this county we will give it to the bankers and big business.

Many small businesses in this county will pocket the handouts and go bust all the same.

Yep, the US has a lot of guns! 

Personally I'd rather take it on the chin. 

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10 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Yep, the US has a lot of guns! 

Personally I'd rather take it on the chin. 

But this breaks the basic principle of work=money. Creates all sorts of perverse consequences. 

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17 minutes ago, guest_northshore said:

Bush did it in 2008 (cheques and rebates)

Yes comments on the radio that the cheques will be ready sooner this time, within 2 weeks. 

It was done in 2001 and 2008 when they had recessions... But those were eventually repayable along with their it's tax payments... This time sounds like it might be 'free' 

Edit - previous cheques were sent in a phased drip-feed of cash for the economy 'The week in which the rebate was mailed was based on the second-to-last digit of the taxpayer's Social Security number, a digit that is effectively randomly assigned.' 

Edited by regprentice
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4 minutes ago, thirdwave said:

I stand corrected. But was it on this scale? They are talking USD 1000+

Tax rebates created by the law were paid to individual U.S. taxpayers during 2008. Most taxpayers below the income limit received a rebate of at least $300 per person ($600 for married couples filing jointly). Eligible taxpayers received, along with their individual payment, $300 per dependent child under the age of 17. The payment was equal to the payer's net income tax liability, but could not exceed $600 (for a single person) or $1200 (married couple filing jointly).[3] 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Stimulus_Act_of_2008

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I'm certain I read that Australia did it a few years ago. Think I recall a few 00 A$.

And guess who else? There has been for a few years now a national insurance allowance a few £000s annually off the employers bill and a 100% rebate on business rates at my place of work, about £2300  p a. These for employers not workers though.

What happens then if you owe a few hundred on a credit card and decide to pay it off? Defeats the whole idea.  

Or maybe HPC is one of the few places on the planet which attracts folk who would do that while most others would spend it.

Japan's effort in this area failed because the Jap public mostly saved it and in the post office not the banks as they didn't trust them. 

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5 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

I'm certain I read that Australia did it a few years ago. Think I recall a few 00 A$.

And guess who else? There has been for a few years now a national insurance allowance a few £000s annually off the employers bill and a 100% rebate on business rates at my place of work, about £2300  p a. These for employers not workers though.

What happens then if you owe a few hundred on a credit card and decide to pay it off? Defeats the whole idea.  

Or maybe HPC is one of the few places on the planet which attracts folk who would do that while most others would spend it.

Japan's effort in this area failed because the Jap public mostly saved it and in the post office not the banks as they didn't trust them. 

I suppose tax credits and other backhanders don't create the sort of moral hazard money for nothing does. Unlike the Japanese, I'd trust the Americans to spunk this money on more worthless crap from China though

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6 minutes ago, thirdwave said:

I suppose tax credits and other backhanders don't create the sort of moral hazard money for nothing does. Unlike the Japanese, I'd trust the Americans to spunk this money on more worthless crap from China though

Why don't we just make our own worthless cr@p and sell it to ourselves and cut the Chinese out of the deal? 

Or follow the French model post Bastille employing gangs to go round France digging holes followed by other gangs filling them in again. Come to think of it looking around quite a number of UK businesses we do that already.

Even better, employ gangs to fill in some of the holes we've already got.

 

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9 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

Why don't we just make our own worthless cr@p and sell it to ourselves and cut the Chinese out of the deal? 

Or follow the French model post Bastille employing gangs to go round France digging holes followed by other gangs filling them in again. Come to think of it looking around quite a number of UK businesses we do that already.

Even better, employ gangs to fill in some of the holes we've already got.

 

Didn't you hear the chancellor has found 330 billion down the back of his sofa to do just that? Meanwhile Bahrain, which requires oil at 100 USD per barrel to break even has announced a financial stimulus package worth 30% of its GDP. Where on earth is all this money coming from? So Fed prints a few trillion, hands some to its countrymen and the rest to Middle Eastern despots? Yet the dollar is a safe haven/store of value in times of crisis? Utter madness!

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1 minute ago, thirdwave said:

Didn't you hear the chancellor has found 330 billion down the back of his sofa to do just that? Meanwhile Bahrain, which requires oil at 100 USD per barrel to break even has announced a financial stimulus package worth 30% of its GDP. Where on earth is all this money coming from? So Fed prints a few trillion, hands some to its countrymen and the rest to Middle Eastern despots? Yet the dollar is a safe haven/store of value in times of crisis? Utter madness!

Somebody on HPC once predicted that the eventual collapse of the housing market would be met with nationalisation, not of the "you've got to move out this is ours now" type but state money providing a purchase price floor and I suspect maybe renting to the occupants who'd been unable either to sell it nor keep the mortgage going.

After HMG has paid all these wages for months and not collected any air travel duty, business rates nor various other taxes they'd then on top of that have to buy up thousands of homes and as often as not carry on paying the rents of the previous owners to stay there. Oh, and some tax credits while they're about it.

Faxes used to attract jokey missives, one was "there are X million employees in UK, y million in private firms, z in the military, in jail, in the public sector"  etc ending with "that leaves 2, you and me. Get you're finger out, I'm fed up of doing all the work!". Looks like it's finally coming true.

 

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2 hours ago, thirdwave said:

Didn't you hear the chancellor has found 330 billion down the back of his sofa to do just that? Meanwhile Bahrain, which requires oil at 100 USD per barrel to break even has announced a financial stimulus package worth 30% of its GDP. Where on earth is all this money coming from? So Fed prints a few trillion, hands some to its countrymen and the rest to Middle Eastern despots? Yet the dollar is a safe haven/store of value in times of crisis? Utter madness!

Well no, that's not a handout - it's a loan facility.

I suspect the order of play is:

- Bank of England presses a few buttons on a keyboard to create money from thin air

- Bank of England  buys a government bond (QE)

- Government takes their money from the newly issued bond and lends it out

It doesn't really "cost" the government anything on day 1, unlike the letting-people-off-business-rates-for-a-year which clearly does.

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10 hours ago, Bluestone59 said:

Somebody on HPC once predicted that the eventual collapse of the housing market would be met with nationalisation, not of the "you've got to move out this is ours now" type but state money providing a purchase price floor and I suspect maybe renting to the occupants who'd been unable either to sell it nor keep the mortgage going.

I can see the new builds down at Vauxhall and Battersea in London, for example, just now being completed or still unfinished and the developers go bust thus swathes of properties end up becoming council flats.  During the 1970s HPC some private developments went bust and the GLC/Greater London Council bought them up.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!
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26 minutes ago, Take Me Back To London! said:

I can see the new builds down at Vauxhall and Battersea in London, for example, just now being completed or still unfinished and the developers go bust thus swathes of properties end up becoming council flats.  During the 1970s HPC some private developments went bust and the GLC/Greater London Council bought them up.

Bob Beckman who was an early HPCer of the 80s said that home ownership was way too expensive (purchase and maintenance) for many people who'd got sucked into it by Thatcher and that a UK council tenancy was an economic privilege.

As it all began to unravel early 90s I also recall him saying Britain would again become a nation of renters.

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they CANNOT have deflation in ASSETS.

that would crash the system.

Their only option is to trash currency.

They have been doing this slowly for years after the crisis, now its about to speed up very quickly.

Its obvious. 

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4 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

they CANNOT have deflation in ASSETS.

that would crash the system.

Their only option is to trash currency.

They have been doing this slowly for years after the crisis, now its about to speed up very quickly.

Its obvious. 

And of course the pound has started falling...……………….

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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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