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Buy to Let - mentioned in conversation these days?


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Is it me or has BTL dropped off the radar at dinner parties, pub talk, other forums etc? On one forum I used to frequent (not housing related in any way apart from a small sub forum) there used to be one person  a week asking about it as an investment strategy, now it's tumbleweeds regarding the subject.

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Some people are still obsessed with probertee. Friends wife wants to build an extension and make the house be worth a million. Says you can't loose with property. A family member just bought a BTL. Still happening though less than before maybe.

Edited by bear.getting.old
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8 hours ago, sammersmith said:

Not exactly buy to let, but everyone I know who is buying / recent homeowner says they plan to hold on to their first house and use it as an income stream when they buy their 'forever home' in about 3 years. 

I used to think it was quite a benign phrase ‘forever’ home from mumsnet and the like. 
Now I find it quite toxic - it invariably means a flash house where I can park my pcp’d Land Rover and Audi on the drive - the height of shallow consumerism 

The reality is stupid as well you need different accommodation for different points in your life - the house all these people aspire to is only useful say for 10-15 years - once your children are over 20 they want to be off ( and these forever homers do not aspire to multi generational living ...)

It is also only possible with our antiquated low property tax system where larger houses do not pay their fair share. A more realistic set of bands for council tax or a US system where the local tax is based on previous sale price must surely be coming - see how forever your home is when you are rattling around in it and paying £12k a year on it from a fixed retirement income 

It’s why in the states people generally move on retirement 

Edited by GregBowman
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Unless you have a big family living in the home what is it with having a big house? It never ceases to amaze me when people buy something with excess bedrooms and bathrooms and say they need the extra space for when family come to stay.....the reality is they hardly ever do and a B&B nearby might be just as comfortable......meeting up at family home for dinner and/or going out together......these people could save themselves a fortune, am sure the family won't mind.;)

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I think BTL is just a symptom of ‘the haves’ and ‘the have nots’ in society and that gap is widening 

the problem comes when you get someone 20 years ago who could just about afford a house and pay the mortgage etc, but not really afford to improve the house much.

then someone else who happens to just have a spare £30-£50k lying around for a new render, windows, extension, who can flip that house, or rent it out for much more. 

with houses especially there is soo much money sloshing around, it’s hugely attractive to people. 

people can work full time for like 40k and then flip houses and get 50k profit for the sake of a few weeks DIY and say 10k invested  

plus the FTSE100 is a joke compared to other stock markets, there is no return anywhere, and who trusts any kind of value in cash? a house is always worth a house, and rent will always be ‘about as much as tenants can afford’ which is brutal but true.

i think it all depends on your company, even owning your own house can be a pretty horrible think to talk about to someone who doesn’t (and I try to talk about the house in the mechanical terms not financial terms like DIY when I do), let alone talk about BTL to anyone 

but I have met some failures from a previous life I had not seen in 10 years and the first thing they said was about their parents rental, as that was the closest they could get to what they deemed a symbol of success (even though they had stomached London rents for years before giving up and moving out)

having property is the modern day symbol of wealth, any moron can drive a white Range Rover with credit, anyone can have a Rolex or a copy, how do people distinguish themselves now? Well not everyone can have their own house and BTL, it’s just one-upmanship. 

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26 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

I think BTL is just a symptom of ‘the haves’ and ‘the have nots’ in society and that gap is widening 

the problem comes when you get someone 20 years ago who could just about afford a house and pay the mortgage etc, but not really afford to improve the house much.

then someone else who happens to just have a spare £30-£50k lying around for a new render, windows, extension, who can flip that house, or rent it out for much more. 

with houses especially there is soo much money sloshing around, it’s hugely attractive to people. 

people can work full time for like 40k and then flip houses and get 50k profit for the sake of a few weeks DIY and say 10k invested  

plus the FTSE100 is a joke compared to other stock markets, there is no return anywhere, and who trusts any kind of value in cash? a house is always worth a house, and rent will always be ‘about as much as tenants can afford’ which is brutal but true.

i think it all depends on your company, even owning your own house can be a pretty horrible think to talk about to someone who doesn’t (and I try to talk about the house in the mechanical terms not financial terms like DIY when I do), let alone talk about BTL to anyone 

but I have met some failures from a previous life I had not seen in 10 years and the first thing they said was about their parents rental, as that was the closest they could get to what they deemed a symbol of success (even though they had stomached London rents for years before giving up and moving out)

having property is the modern day symbol of wealth, any moron can drive a white Range Rover with credit, anyone can have a Rolex or a copy, how do people distinguish themselves now? Well not everyone can have their own house and BTL, it’s just one-upmanship. 

I think IO BTL is a result of idiots not grasping how leverage works.

We've had 'Oh, <x> is a property millionaire, ignoring its all debt.

Now its gone quite.

Itll soon start reversing - Oh X has had his house poed. His BTL were repo/sold for less than he bought them for.

 

 

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2 hours ago, GregBowman said:

I used to think it was quite a benign phrase ‘forever’ home from mumsnet and the like. 
Now I find it quite toxic - it invariably means a flash house where I can park my pcp’d Land Rover and Audi on the drive - the height of shallow consumerism 

 

It is also perceived to be the greatest possible investment by many.

Makes me sick too. 

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1 minute ago, Si1 said:

It is also perceived to be the greatest possible investment by many.

Makes me sick too. 

What is preferable, one big one, two small ones, or one small one and a small hopeful safety net??

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4 minutes ago, Ghostly said:

There isn't that much choice of smaller homes.  I'd be happy with a 2 bed place but there aren't many and the ones there are may not be that nice.  Effectively you're forced to go for a 3 bed 'family home'.  Not many bungalows either.

Same problem.   2 bed houses round here are also the most likely to be bough by BTL and therefore they don't re-enter the market as frequently and when they do they are usually the most over-priced in terms of £ per square foot.  

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4 minutes ago, Ghostly said:

There isn't that much choice of smaller homes.  I'd be happy with a 2 bed place but there aren't many and the ones there are may not be that nice.  Effectively you're forced to go for a 3 bed 'family home'.  Not many bungalows either.

Yes, different places offer different choices.....the smaller old style homes have usually been snapped up by those buying to let or those choosing not to sell to move and to let out.?

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3 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

I think BTL is just a symptom of ‘the haves’ and ‘the have nots’ in society and that gap is widening 

the problem comes when you get someone 20 years ago who could just about afford a house and pay the mortgage etc, but not really afford to improve the house much.

then someone else who happens to just have a spare £30-£50k lying around for a new render, windows, extension, who can flip that house, or rent it out for much more. 

with houses especially there is soo much money sloshing around, it’s hugely attractive to people. 

people can work full time for like 40k and then flip houses and get 50k profit for the sake of a few weeks DIY and say 10k invested  

plus the FTSE100 is a joke compared to other stock markets, there is no return anywhere, and who trusts any kind of value in cash? a house is always worth a house, and rent will always be ‘about as much as tenants can afford’ which is brutal but true.

i think it all depends on your company, even owning your own house can be a pretty horrible think to talk about to someone who doesn’t (and I try to talk about the house in the mechanical terms not financial terms like DIY when I do), let alone talk about BTL to anyone 

but I have met some failures from a previous life I had not seen in 10 years and the first thing they said was about their parents rental, as that was the closest they could get to what they deemed a symbol of success (even though they had stomached London rents for years before giving up and moving out)

having property is the modern day symbol of wealth, any moron can drive a white Range Rover with credit, anyone can have a Rolex or a copy, how do people distinguish themselves now? Well not everyone can have their own house and BTL, it’s just one-upmanship. 

It is also because of pensions scandals, some people worry about their work pension and think this is safer.

(I don't have a BTL and never will).

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Keeping the old house when moving up is indeed the new buy to let. Typical symptom of modern hypocritical greed. Only made possible, as already mentioned,  by favourable property taxes, but also ultra low rates. Example of how wealth is protected for one group while earnings of another stagnate. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

Keeping the old house when moving up is indeed the new buy to let. Typical symptom of modern hypocritical greed. Only made possible, as already mentioned,  by favourable property taxes, but also ultra low rates. Example of how wealth is protected for one group while earnings of another stagnate. 

 

 

I would guess in many cases - it does not really make financial sense to be honest.

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12 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

Keeping the old house when moving up is indeed the new buy to let. Typical symptom of modern hypocritical greed. Only made possible, as already mentioned,  by favourable property taxes, but also ultra low rates. Example of how wealth is protected for one group while earnings of another stagnate. 

 

 

Except there's extra tax to buying a 2nd home now isn't there?

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6 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

I would guess in many cases - it does not really make financial sense to be honest.

It rarely makes sense, especially if it's a couple both working and in receipt of CB and whatnot. 

They are also completely oblivious to details, such as consent-to-let, additional SDLT, removal of mortgage relief, S21 going, etc.  I suspect their landording plan will fail, but is quite sad that a lot of young and youngish workers aspire to having a people-farming side hustle.   

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On 08/03/2020 at 07:24, GregBowman said:

It’s why in the states people generally move on retirement 

Could easily argue that it is because they don't have inheritance tax

Quote

Because of these exemptions, it is estimated that only the largest 0.2% of estates in the U.S. will pay the tax.[7] For 2017, the exemption increased to $5.5 million. In 2018, the exemption doubled to $11.18 million per taxpayer due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. As a result, only about 2,000 estates per year in the US are currently liable for estate tax.[8]

Less government is better than more government.

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2 hours ago, Locke said:

Could easily argue that it is because they don't have inheritance tax

Less government is better than more government.

It’s got little to do with that talking to my US family - taxes on a 4 bed house in a nice area of a state where there there are jobs - can be upwards of $20k a year and also applies to second homes 

 

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1 minute ago, GregBowman said:

It’s got little to do with that talking to my US family - taxes on a 4 bed house in a nice area of a state where there there are jobs - can be upwards of $20k a year and also applies to second homes 

 

Would the difference in climate be a factor?  Moving from New York to Florida is a much bigger change in climate than we have anywhere in the UK.

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2 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Would the difference in climate be a factor?  Moving from New York to Florida is a much bigger change in climate than we have anywhere in the UK.

I understand the climate is a factor in that it is cheaper to liver in Southern States because they are were and still are poorer overall. The money is in the cold North and the East and West coasts - Therefore houses and taxes are higher as is cost of living.

The top 10 cheapest States are all in the South. 

I agree it s a factor but only so much as part of the 'cheap' equation' IMHO 

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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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